Snooker aiming system

[Franky]

trust the force Luke

I agree with Boro and Bob. You must bring as much "feel" as possible into your game. Imagine the execution of a perfect shot with perfect position. Feel the smoothness of your stroke. Listen to the sound of your cuetip striking the ball and hear how it changes with different spins and speeds.

The same goes for aiming. You must feel the correct aim and trust that feeling. Once you're down in your stance IMHO, feel and trusting your instincts are far more important than calculation.

 

[X Breaker]

That's because he's instructing beginners. It's not how good potters aim though, at least in my experience. It's how the old billiards players used to aim. It's fantastic for billiards, but explains why they couldn't pot for toffee.

That's more or less it. You can see the angle straight away, cue ball, object ball, pocket. You can see it when you are sat down. It's still the same angle when you walk up to the table. Why change your mind when you're down on the shot? Only microadjustments are required, and precise delivery of the cue ball. That's the hard bit. Hitting the ball straight. Any daft sod with two eyes can see the angle.

Try it yourself. Swing your cue to the left. You can see that's wrong. Swing it right. You can see that's wrong too. Why then not trust to playing right down the middle of the two where it's precisely correct?

Boro Nut

I have been paying a lot of attention to how the players aim.

I have never seen any snooker player on tv using his cue to line up a shot, or even walking over to look at the contact point on the object ball. I have seen many great US 9 ball players such as Johnny Archer using his cue to check his contact point, and sometimes walking over to look at the object ball and the pocket before moving back to the cue ball and shot.

Even when the UK snooker players are trying to hit a snooker off three rails or whatever, they usually just stand behind the cue ball and look at the angles from there. Most US players would walk over and check the angles from the other side.

I can understand when the pot is close, that it is automatic, on a 9 ball table--but on a snooker table, nothing is automatic, and there is no easy shot so to speak. So, I have found this quite amazing.

I remember I once asked Dan Louie how he aims, he said, "I just know the angles."

So, is practise and memory the key to precise potting? Or, are some people just more gifted?

Thanks for all the help and valuable advice, much appreciated.
Richard

 

[Boro Nut]

Even when the UK snooker players are trying to hit a snooker off three rails or whatever, they usually just stand behind the cue ball and look at the angles from there. Most US players would walk over and check the angles from the other side.

Yeah it's amazing what they can pull off sometimes. But don't think that's all just feel. From my billiards days there were long hours spent working out where the ball would end up after hitting a spotted ball from various positions in baulk. That way you could more or less guarantee making a cannon playing from hand.

Think about it. In snooker it's usually the baulk colours you get snookered behind more often than not. So it pays to work out a few datums. Where do you need to play off the cushion to hit the blue? the pink? the black? to go into the pockets?, etc. Practice and get to know them. Try with check and running side. Same from behind the brown. Once you're armed with these datums it's a lot easier to work out complicated routes to avoid those balls and hit the ones you want. You can bet the pro's have put the hours in.

And running into the pack? Just put the wooden triangle on the table and experiment. I'm sure some do have an instinctive feel for it, but time and effort is what counts on those situations.

Boro Nut

 

[chilli66]

I've already told you. Try it out. Walk up to a table and just fire away on first impressions - blam blam blam. No working out. Settle straight into the line of the shot that feels correct. Don't change your mind when you're down. Don't concentrate on hitting the object ball, just on aligning through the exact centre of the white ball and delivering that cue straight into the far distance. Bet you miss a few times. Bet you surprise yourself a few times. Do it often enough and you stop missing and stop surprising yourself.

You'll never obtain the ability if you don't exercise it. Give up on the mental arithmetic and set your innate abilities free. There's nothing woo-woo about this. Your primal brain is much superior in doing spatial calculations than your rational brain is in doing mental arithmetic. It's how you walk, throw a stone, catch a ball.

Boro Nut

Spot on! That's how I've always played pool & snooker. I never walk to an OB to look at the angle, only to see if the path to the pocket is clear. And of course, as with everything you have to practice it, it almost becomes like muscle memory after awhile.

Rep for you Boro Nut. You do a far better job of explaining snooker than I ever could!

 

[predator]

Also pocket speed is very important in snooker. Taking this into consideration along with the fact that snooker cloth is far faster making the balls roll farther, you get position more often with the strength of the shot than the spin.

This is totally untrue.
Simonis cloth on a pool table is always faster than napped cloth on a snooker table. Napped cloth can be fast if heated, but it still offers more resistance than Simonis any day, the balls simply don't roll as far. It's only that cushions rebound faster than on snooker table. But the cloth itself, no comparison...Simonis is much faster.

Every week I go to a club which has regular 9 footers, two 12ft snooker tables and one 10ft carom table, so I had a good chance to compare speed of the cloth. Pool cloth is faster than snooker cloth, but of course nothing compares to speed of carom cloth. The balls just keep on rolling forever.

 

[Bob Jewett]

Well I guess that all depends on the type of cloth that they used on the tables you played on. I've only played on 6 different snooker tables at 3 different places, both 10ft and 12ft tables, and they all had the same cloth that was faster than Simonis 860. Maybe that's just the way they do things around here, I don't know. My cousin is the only one I know that has that same fast cloth on his 9ft pool table.

I guess you can put any type cloth you wish on any kind of table you have, it's all up to the owner.

It depends on whether the owner wants to provide more or less standard conditions for snooker. The international standard is napped cloth and pockets that conform to the WSA/WPBSA??? standard shape templates. At many locations in the US, the customers prefer to have a snooker table that is very, very different from the international standard. Often the table is rarely used for snooker but is instead used for golf. (I suspect that most in Europe have never heard of the game played on snooker tables called "golf" but it's fairly common in the US.) Many US players prefer to have much faster cloth and much smaller pockets than the international standard.

 

[Boro Nut]

This is totally untrue.
Simonis cloth on a pool table is always faster than napped cloth on a snooker table. Napped cloth can be fast if heated, but it still offers more resistance than Simonis any day, the balls simply don't roll as far.

I my limited experience I found the same, but I never knew whether it was the weight of the bigger pool balls or the speed of the cloth. I have no idea which cloth it was. It was blue, as if that wasn't daft enough. Perhaps they chose from a badly printed catalogue. Anyway, it certainly seemed more slip-slidey frictionless, and the balls seemed to my eye to skid further along the tangent line before biting on the cloth than I was used to. It all had a slightly alien feel. All I know is I had a bugger of a time judging the speed of the cue ball at first. It always seemed to roll that extra 6 to 9" (ok 3'-0" then) past where I wanted to be. It's a bloody good job I can pot them from anywhere.

When the balls are moving at speed they look the same on both cloths. But a snooker ball seems to come to a more positive halt in the last three inches or so as if the brakes have been put on. I assume this is a nap effect. If you drew the graph it would look like a parabola. On the pool tables I played on the ball just appeared to slow down uniformly without seeming to want to actually stop. If you drew the graph it would be a straight line, if that makes any sense.

The big difference for me was the cushions. Snooker cushions seem to play truer angles and retain more of the speed of the ball, whereas pool tables seemed to be a bit deader and add more spin, probably because they compress more. It felt to me like an unusual mismatch between faster cloth/ball and slower cushions. Not a recipe for accurate positional play. Maybe it was just the particular tables I got to play on.

Another factor is that they now shave the nap for pro snooker comps. It does make the cloth play faster. In my opinion this makes it far easier to pot to the middle and bottom corners, and the TV pictures clearly show practically zero drift off on slow and medium paced shots nowadays. Just aim for the pocket without correction. Spoils the fun.

Boro Nut

 

[Boro Nut]

At many locations in the US, the customers prefer to have a snooker table that is very, very different from the international standard. Often the table is rarely used for snooker but is instead used for golf......Many US players prefer to have much faster cloth and much smaller pockets than the international standard.

From what I've read about golf Bob it seems they wouldn't be much fun for playing anything else. I don't mind a table keeping you honest, but it should be fair. It's not really a snooker table if you can't actually bang them in at any speed, even along the cushions. I think we should start referring to them as golf tables (if they don't already). Maybe this is why some pool players believe they've tried snooker once and wouldn't thank you for another game. They've sucked a lemon and concluded that peaches are disgusting.

Boro Nut

 

[Bob Jewett]

... When the balls are moving at speed they look the same on both cloths. But a snooker ball seems to come to a more positive halt in the last three inches or so as if the brakes have been put on. I assume this is a nap effect. If you drew the graph it would look like a parabola. On the pool tables I played on the ball just appeared to slow down uniformly without seeming to want to actually stop. If you drew the graph it would be a straight line, if that makes any sense. ...

That makes sense, but I'd have to do the test before I believed it. I've done the test on a pool table, and the deceleration is constant within the limits of my measurement equipment -- a stop watch. This is equivalent to the ball running up a constant slope. On Simonis 860, the slope is roughly 1:100.

An article describing how to easily measure cloth speed is at http://www.sfbilliards.com/articles/1995-04.pdf but it doesn't consider non-uniform slowing.

 

[X Breaker]

The rails of the snooker tables also have a flat portion at the edges, while pool tables have sharp edges. I am not sure if that affects how the balls bounce off the cushion, I suspect that might.

By the way, I have changed the way I aim now, I tried it last night, and I could feel a slight improvment. I will keep practising it, as I understand it would take some time before it becomes natural.

Anyway, I want to thank each and everyone of you for your help and your valuable opinion.

Thank you.
Richard

 

[Bob Jewett]

From what I've read about golf Bob it seems they wouldn't be much fun for playing anything else. I don't mind a table keeping you honest, but it should be fair. It's not really a snooker table if you can't actually bang them in at any speed, even along the cushions. I think we should start referring to them as golf tables (if they don't already). Maybe this is why some pool players believe they've tried snooker once and wouldn't thank you for another game. They've sucked a lemon and concluded that peaches are disgusting.

Boro Nut

Perhaps one of the best examples of a "golf" table is at Hardtimes in Bellflower, California. The cloth seems faster than any carom cloth. Complicating the matter is the fact that if you roll the cue ball slowly to the other end of the table, it will roll off more than a ball diameter. It looks impossible to pot balls if the ball is within 10 degrees of the cushion, which makes the black marginal. (Maybe the pockets are not quite that tight, but I'm judging from the shots that good players refused to try.) The 10-foot table at Bucktooth's room was quite a bit tighter and required you to play the black on two cushions to the side if you wanted to play it at speed.

Besides golf, a game that looks like snooker but with fewer red balls can be played on such tables. It's called "liability" and can be played by multiple players. You collect a certain amount per point and you collect only from the player who precedes you.

 

[Boro Nut]

That makes sense, but I'd have to do the test before I believed it.

I wouldn't argue if the reverse was true Bob. After all, I'm basing it only on my entirely subjective judgement in a desperate attempt to rationalise my total inability to play the game properly. When in doubt blame the cloth I say.

Boro Nut

 

[Jason Robichaud]

didn't read all post, but a lot of the great players line their shots...you see them stand on the line chalking the cue and then move to the cue-ball and step into their line. some of you should watch closer...also, Steve Davis has a really good video talking about how he aims...starts with full, 3/4, 1/2, 1/4 ball hits using a ghost ball aiming point.

 

[icem3n]

I have never seen any snooker player on tv using his cue to line up a shot, or even walking over to look at the contact point on the object ball. I have seen many great US 9 ball players such as Johnny Archer using his cue to check his contact point, and sometimes walking over to look at the object ball and the pocket before moving back to the cue ball and shot.

You should never check and aim at the contact point for 1/4, 2/5 cut ball shot, unless you know what is going to happen to the ball. If you want to aim at contact point for fine cut ball, make sure you compensate(for the throw) and slice the ball more finer.

I remember I once asked Dan Louie how he aims, he said, "I just know the angles."

So, is practise and memory the key to precise potting? Or, are some people just more gifted?

It is the hard work and memory.

 

[X Breaker]

I am almost practising everyday on the snooker table working on my aim now.
I would start with a full ball on the black, pot all the balls(21 balls) into the corner pocket, and then move the cue ball over by 1/4 of a ball, and do the same thing again, and move the cue ball over and repeat. I do the pot from both sides of the black. I then take a break, and do the same thing with the pink spot, and the blue spot.
I am hoping to make the time to practise this routine everyday for about two hours after I finish my work for the day. I usually go to the pool hall around 11pm or midnight and then go home at 1am.
I am not sure how the players in the UK practise their aim, but this is what I am doing now.
Thank you for everyone's help.
Richard

 

[Boro Nut]

I am not sure how the players in the UK practise their aim, but this is what I am doing now.

Long straight-ins every time.

Put a ball on the blue spot and the cue ball near a corner pocket but far enough away to get your hand on the table comfortably. Then play to pot the ball in the opposite corner and follow it in. This will tell you everything you need to know about your alignment and your cueing. If you're playing on a brushed nap play down the nap to avoid the white drifting toward the side cushions.

Take care to place the cue ball exactly so that it aligns through the centre of the object ball and the target point at the back of the opposite pocket.

Stand facing the shot and feel the line.

Step square into the shot by placing you lead foot (right handed=right foot) on the line of the shot and drop down to the table. You should have 4 points of contact on the cue (grip, chest, chin, bridge. This ensures the cue travels through the shot in an exact straight line. You will feel any deviation against your chest or chin, and see any tiny sideways movement of the tip when addressing the cue ball.

Check the tip is aligned to the absolute centreline of the ball (you need to play a bit of top to get the white to follow).

Check your cue is aligned to the exact spot at the back of the pocket through the dead centre of the balls. When you're looking at the target you'll be aware of two fuzzy cue images (one from each eye - like a tuning fork) assuming you cue centrally like me. You need to split the difference exactly with the aiming line down the centre of these two images.

Recheck cue ball impact point and cue/aiming line alignment as many times as needed until you feel you've got it nailed.

On the final drawback, concentrate on drawing the cue back smoothly along the line, a golf swing is no good in snooker. Allow your grip to open slightly as you draw back the cue. It will automatically close when you play the shot.

Shift your eyes to the back of the pocket (ignore the object ball) and pause slightly to avoid any extraneous movement.

Play a firm confident stroke, and watch the results closely. If you're cueing fairly well you'll pot the ball, but any slight imperfection (usually not hitting the cue ball to within a fraction of a millimetre of the centreline) the white will not follow through into the same pocket. If you're striking the cue ball to the left of centre that's which way the object ball will go, and the cue ball will drift off to the right, and vice versa.

If you can pot both balls ten times in a row just go home. You have nothing else to learn. You'll certainly have no difficulty potting any ball from any angle.

Boro Nut

 

[predator]

Put a ball on the blue spot and the cue ball near a corner pocket but far enough away to get your hand on the table comfortably. Then play to pot the ball in the opposite corner and follow it in.

How would top snooker players do in this drill? I'm guessing 3, maybe 4 out of 10?

I suppose drawing the cueball back in the opposite corner pocket would make the drill twice as hard...

 

[Boro Nut]

How would top snooker players do in this drill? I'm guessing 3, maybe 4 out of 10?

I think I've managed at least 4 in a row before and I'm useless. It's tough, but it's not really that tough if you cue straight. If you don't it's impossible. But normally if I've managed a few in a row or as long as the white's at least rattling the pocket I'm ready to kill. I'd only spend time on it if I was well out to start with.

I suppose drawing the cueball back in the opposite corner pocket would make the drill twice as hard...

At least 10 times harder might be a closer estimate. Not something I'd bother trying. I know my limits.

Boro Nut

 

[X Breaker]

Long straight-ins every time.

Put a ball on the blue spot and the cue ball near a corner pocket but far enough away to get your hand on the table comfortably. Then play to pot the ball in the opposite corner and follow it in. This will tell you everything you need to know about your alignment and your cueing. If you're playing on a brushed nap play down the nap to avoid the white drifting toward the side cushions.

Take care to place the cue ball exactly so that it aligns through the centre of the object ball and the target point at the back of the opposite pocket.

Stand facing the shot and feel the line.

Step square into the shot by placing you lead foot (right handed=right foot) on the line of the shot and drop down to the table. You should have 4 points of contact on the cue (grip, chest, chin, bridge. This ensures the cue travels through the shot in an exact straight line. You will feel any deviation against your chest or chin, and see any tiny sideways movement of the tip when addressing the cue ball.

Check the tip is aligned to the absolute centreline of the ball (you need to play a bit of top to get the white to follow).

Check your cue is aligned to the exact spot at the back of the pocket through the dead centre of the balls. When you're looking at the target you'll be aware of two fuzzy cue images (one from each eye - like a tuning fork) assuming you cue centrally like me. You need to split the difference exactly with the aiming line down the centre of these two images.

Recheck cue ball impact point and cue/aiming line alignment as many times as needed until you feel you've got it nailed.

On the final drawback, concentrate on drawing the cue back smoothly along the line, a golf swing is no good in snooker. Allow your grip to open slightly as you draw back the cue. It will automatically close when you play the shot.

Shift your eyes to the back of the pocket (ignore the object ball) and pause slightly to avoid any extraneous movement.

Play a firm confident stroke, and watch the results closely. If you're cueing fairly well you'll pot the ball, but any slight imperfection (usually not hitting the cue ball to within a fraction of a millimetre of the centreline) the white will not follow through into the same pocket. If you're striking the cue ball to the left of centre that's which way the object ball will go, and the cue ball will drift off to the right, and vice versa.

If you can pot both balls ten times in a row just go home. You have nothing else to learn. You'll certainly have no difficulty potting any ball from any angle.

Boro Nut

Thank you so much.
I tried this tonight, and all I can say is that I need a lot more practise.But I potted the blue ball though.
I am wondering if you always touch your cue with your chest?

 

[Boro Nut]

I am wondering if you always touch your cue with your chest?

Yes. Stand square on to the shot (feet placed about right angles to the shot with the lead foot on the line) and it should tuck in under your breast automatically when you bend down. The cue will then be right under your shouder joint and everything feels much more compact. You should find your elbow is much more comfortable and under control, and it's actually harder to cue sideways than to cue straight once you're aligned properly.

It felt a bit alien to me when I first overhauled my natural stance, but I could feel the benefit in my cueing immediately, and leapt from an occasional 40+ break player to a 100 break player in less than a year after I did.

The only other tip I would say is to train the cue to follow your eye. It happens naturally like pointing to a large degree, but you can hone the skill in a mirror at home to rid yourself of any last error. Stand facing the mirror and stare at one eye of the other. Without deflecting your glance one iota, bring the cue up until you feel it's aligned with that eye. Now close the other eye and check the cue alignment. You'll need to train yourself to get rid of any sideways error.

Boro Nut