I think that expectation is a big issue for new players. Especially transitioning pool players. In my experience, new snooker players routinely attempt pots that even Judd Trump would turn down.
"Snooker is *torture* at all skill levels . . . pool is *fun* at all skill levels."
- Thread starter arnaldo
- Start date
My experience is that pool players who transition aren't bad potters at all. If you are a really competent pool player, then you'll most likely become decent at snooker rather quickly at least as far as potting is concerned. Of course you'd have to be at a level where your fundamentals are at a certain minimum for that to work. Ok, in the beginning, most if not all potential big runs end unexpectedly from small flaws in fundamentals. It's ok, though, that happens for most new/mid-level snooker players too.
I think the game management overall, not only shot selection, but position, strategy, kicking/safes etc. are all likely to cause problems for people coming from pool. The whole flow of the game is different from pool. The respotting of the colours is especially different, meaning that even though you may be as good as a snooker player at potting randomly located balls, he'll outshoot you on the colours, simply because he's shot them a million times and played position for them from all sorts of angles. That goes for delicate position plays around the black as well, where the big points are scored. Whenever two newer players play each other, that rarely comes into consideration, as the colours typically get knocked off their spots all the time and the game looks 100 times more difficult that in usually is after you learn to avoid bumping the colours as much, and learn the importance of choosing the correct colour to play for etc..
Snooker, as a game, is IMO almost entirely different from pool. Even though I've spent most of my time going back and forth between the games, I always play much, much better when I specialize on one or the other for a long period of time. That goes doubly for snooker, but is also true for pool to an extent. People have wildly unrealistic expectations about going from snooker to pool and then dominating everyone. It's not going to happen, though you may get a boost to your fundamentals that may help your game long term, and pool LOOKS and FEELS easy after snooker, the results will rarely come close to that subjective feeling. Your potting may be great for the first few hours, then you adjust back. Try it, if you don't believe me.
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Never seen a pool player that can ping these in with regularity and that's todays game, when it comes to distance you need sound technique to be consistent. On the other hand guys like Stuart Pettman showed it was a pretty easy transition to 14.1 minus a few fundamentals of the game but potting balls was certainly not one of them.
Well, most snooker players can't "ping" those either. It was an exceptional shot in every regard. Even pros won't have that high of a percentage on these, which is why they generally don't shoot them. Amateurs like myself will probably shoot these more often than the pros, as the pros will generally spot better shots than this. I'm not criticising his shot selection, it's just that usually you'll have something better than this to shoot.
Steve Davis gave pool a good, honest try over several years. Even if he wasn't in the snooker top 16 often at the time, nobody could say he wasn't a top snooker player and he did actually make it back to almost the very top later. He was and is a tactical genius and a true student of the game with picture perfect fundamentals. He didn't dominate the best pool players even though he had some wins. The games are just too different.
Well here is where we must agree to disagree
These shots are much more common now and what is part of the modern game, Trumps dominance last year is an example of "nothing is safe"
As for Davis, I would consider a "good honest try" learning 9ball to go and tour the US for a year and enter everything possible, he did not do anything like that, he only played in a few Matchroom events. As with any sport you also need to have a passion to get better, I haven't seen that from any top pro snooker player applied to pool.
My highest break in snooker is 84 (I think - I was super excited at the time and it was etched in my memory for years but I care less now - it was 80 something), achieved a lifetime ago. It was "lucky", as most players' high breaks are - but I was a regular 20/30 breaker with occasional 40s and a handful above that. After years and years of not playing snooker but playing pool as a serious recreational player, I tried playing snooker again. I considered my pool stroke to be rock solid - I can make any shot and can run racks but lack that consistency that devotion and attention can bring to the game - so yeah I'm a decent player, most of you know someone like me. Going back to snooker I was struggling to put a run of more than three balls together and the reason was immediately obvious - my stroke had gone all swingy and was not rock solid at all. I'm still working on it but too far gone to have the desire to be as good as I was - if anyone wants to be a world beater in snooker they will have to start, or transition, early. Snooker is hard. Very hard. Stray from the fundamentals just a little and you will miss the pocket by a mile.
Six ball wild.
the pro pool player field wasn't that deep when davis played pool championships. i actually think mark gray is the best example of a transitioned snooker player. 6 time eurotour winner and was the number 1 ranked euro player when the field was real tough. nothing special about his game, he is just granite in his stroke and fundamentals.
Geosnookery
Well-known member
Can be torture.
Back in my mid 20’s I once calculated that I was around the 300th top Snooker player in the world. Stay in the UK and practice 4 hours a day or return to Canada and continue as a geologist? Glad I returned and have other interests in life.
With lots of dedicated practice I mostly likely could made the top ranked 128. ‘Perhaps’ once or twice a season finished in the top 32. By my late 30 career finished.
Best part is I still play Snooker most days on my table and enjoy it. Its something I may have given up if it had became a chore. Every so often I still get a high from making that ‘wow’ shot or break over 50 and fantasize that I just won the World Championship at the Crucible in Sheffield.
Most Pool players do fine on a Snooker table once they do a mindset change. A new snooker player can’t beat a decent player with ‘luck’ just like a Little League team can’t beat the Yankees because of one lucky play. However a talented Pool player who actually studies the game will be ‘less tortured’ after some practice.
Helps to be a bit sadistic as most of the game is spent trying to torture your opponent. Pool players who get upset when they play a defensive player would go bonkers playing Snooker. At the non pro level, 90% of shots in a game can be strategy.
Back in my mid 20’s I once calculated that I was around the 300th top Snooker player in the world. Stay in the UK and practice 4 hours a day or return to Canada and continue as a geologist? Glad I returned and have other interests in life.
With lots of dedicated practice I mostly likely could made the top ranked 128. ‘Perhaps’ once or twice a season finished in the top 32. By my late 30 career finished.
Best part is I still play Snooker most days on my table and enjoy it. Its something I may have given up if it had became a chore. Every so often I still get a high from making that ‘wow’ shot or break over 50 and fantasize that I just won the World Championship at the Crucible in Sheffield.
Most Pool players do fine on a Snooker table once they do a mindset change. A new snooker player can’t beat a decent player with ‘luck’ just like a Little League team can’t beat the Yankees because of one lucky play. However a talented Pool player who actually studies the game will be ‘less tortured’ after some practice.
Helps to be a bit sadistic as most of the game is spent trying to torture your opponent. Pool players who get upset when they play a defensive player would go bonkers playing Snooker. At the non pro level, 90% of shots in a game can be strategy.
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If
EDIT for topic relevant comment: Once you hit a certain level, both games are equally capable of inducing torture and beauty.
If you’re anywhere near the top 128, hundreds in practice sessions are no longer exciting. You must have been a seriously good player. I’ve made a bunch of hundreds in snooker (high break - 128) and English billiards, and anyone threatening to make the pro tour would freaking destroy me.
EDIT for topic relevant comment: Once you hit a certain level, both games are equally capable of inducing torture and beauty.
Geosnookery
Well-known member
Huge difference in talent between 1980 and 2021. There weren’t a lot of ‘dedicated’ snooker players. Today there’s at least 128 Chinese who are playing and studying the game every day.
Centuries are a difficult measure. Depends a lot on a player’s table strategy. Easier to make against a lower talented player because not weighing risk the same. Also, some players, like Williams and Higgins will keep moving center table to the blue and, as their lead increases, try and push the blue and pink out of play. Their career century total doesn’t reflect talent. In contrast, O'Sullivan and Robertson play for the black and higher scores.
Higgins has over 800 career centuries, second only to Ronnie. Williams spent most of his early career not caring about centuries and is still in the top 10 with over 500.
No one wants to keep taking blues because there’s too much cueball movement and you have to constantly land above the blue. If that’s how people are playing snooker on that side of the world, now wonder it’s always torture
I have always been enamored with snooker but really never played it. I ended up getting an old 5x10 snooker table last year for the pandemic. I like playing on it but suspect my pool game has gone to hell. Not that it matters that much to me. I am currently trying to get onto an APA league team. Should be interesting but doubt I last more than a session as I have never been on an APA team that hasn't been ranked up. There are many equipment aspects of playing on a snooker table or snooker in general that are just different as anyone who plays knows. It honestly changes your game and not in a good way as far as pool is concerned. I also have a old 5x10 pool table that I couldn't give away (broken down). No regrets as I like the big table weird games including snooker/golf/banks/carom type pool games/honolulu etc. Also interested in one pocket. Rarely find anyone that plays these games. Wish me luck LOL.
Speaking of snooker, whatever happened to payball? This is the greatest ring gambling game ever that was played with the six numbered balls on a snooker table, and run in rotation with payouts for each ball, with double on the 7 ball and double for a complete run. It was like an infinitely better version of six ball.
In Dayton in 1974, I saw the late Denny Searcy win well over $20,000 in a payball ring game where the likes of Buddy, Siegel, St. Louie Louie, and dozens of other Big Time players took a shot and came out losers. The only other player to come out ahead, and barely was Jimmy Reid. Sports Illustrated made reference to this ring game in a feature story a few years later on Danny D: Easy Times The Hard Way.
In Dayton in 1974, I saw the late Denny Searcy win well over $20,000 in a payball ring game where the likes of Buddy, Siegel, St. Louie Louie, and dozens of other Big Time players took a shot and came out losers. The only other player to come out ahead, and barely was Jimmy Reid. Sports Illustrated made reference to this ring game in a feature story a few years later on Danny D: Easy Times The Hard Way.
I think every cuesport can become torture right at the moment you hit your personal wall.
The moment you have used up your talent and realise that everything to come is hard work and a slow grind. Unfortunately this is also the time you start to run into players who can beat you...and they do it so easily.
But who said, that a bit of torture can't be fun ;-)
The moment you have used up your talent and realise that everything to come is hard work and a slow grind. Unfortunately this is also the time you start to run into players who can beat you...and they do it so easily.
But who said, that a bit of torture can't be fun ;-)
Geosnookery
Well-known member
True. In Snooker a good part of focus is on the opponent. Just keep bringing the white back to bulk. Once or ten times. Like a prize fighter prodding for an opening. Don’t try to match pots with a sharpshooter and don’t try to out strategize a veteran.