So get this. (APA League Operator Rant)

[play8ball]

If by losing players you mean I don't lose any more money, that sounds great with me.

 

[Slate Billiards]

Kieth is a good guy that I have known for years. The sandbagging team from the APA is who I have a problem with. Kieth has offered his help in us sanctioning a BCAPL here. He is sanctioned on the BCAPL website. It was only the league at my place that was not. Kieth has been in contact with the BCAPL on this and has to shell out quite a bit of money to them. Sorry Kieth if I upset you. I just cant stand the jerks at the APA.

Mort

 

[play8ball]

Just saying

Mort, we're good. I'm not sure where the misunderstanding came from, but it did get me in quite a bit of trouble. Big headache and I sent you a personal email detailing just how much that person actually paid into the league that they expected to go to Vegas out of. Its comical!

Oh well, you live and learn. I supposed I'll have to start an escrow account and give the players detailed interest/income statements in the future that way their money can grow exponentially like they expect it to. Thank you for attempting to help.

 

[Holly]

Check out this link

http://www.pool-table-rules.com/pool-resources/PDF/LM4.pdf

The handicap system is explained around pages A6 and A7. Don't think this is local as I don't live in NV.

Here is an updated link regarding the BCA Pool League on how to sanction a league. This may help to clear up the question about the BCAPL and handicaps.

http://playbca.com/Leagues/SanctionYourLeague.aspx


Additionally, here is a link about the BCAPL policies:

http://playbca.com/Leagues/LeaguePolicies.aspx

It is not required to use the system or any handicap system in order to have a league BCAPL sanctioned. Some leagues desire to use a handicap and some do not so we offer this posted system that has been in use for many years. The BCAPL has sanctioned leagues in other games in addition to 8-Ball such as 14.1 Continuous, One-Pocket and 9-Ball. Thought I'd just help to clear up the question

 

[Ctwitty]

goodbye

Merlin

Some advice. Kiss those leagues goodbye. Get back to those nice 9 footers and start a 14.1 round robin with people who like to shoot pool.

Dave Nelson

Yes that really is some good advice. League play of all kinds is what keep pool rooms and bars open. I am sure the place will fill up with people wanting to play 14.1 . Get a grip

 

[Ctwitty]

league

I'm not sure where the mix up came, but there obviously was one. And what "extra" cash are you talking about? There was actually money lost on that league, and, frankly, I'm appalled at your accusations.

Just to be clear: That league was an in-house league at Slate, nothing more. I suppose I could have driven there every week, and spent the gas coming down there, but to what avail? You guys would have griped no matter what. I've learned that you can't make everyone happy.

I certainly will not be doing anything in that area. That area needs a full time baby sitter. And for the record, no amount of "extra" money would even remotely make the headaches worthwhile.

And all this from a BCA league, hmmmmmmmm. lol

 

[APA Operator]

Ok, here it is, Merlin. I stayed away for a couple of days thinking that might generate a fresh reaction, then I got pretty busy with my own Local Team Championships and had to set this aside for another week. Let's see how it goes...

This is going to be a bit of a read, sorry.

At the beginning of this last session, I decided that I would start playing in leagues, and joined BCA and APA. I hopped onto a great APA team and thought we would do well, even going so far as to say that we might make it to Vegas. I mentioned this to some other guys that play in the same room as me and they said, "Don't count on it, the same guys go to Vegas every other year." I kind of brushed it off, thinking that if we won fair and square, there wasn't any way that we'd get screwed out of going.

As an operator, when I hear this (a player who likes his team's chances), I have to wonder if he knows something I don't (like how many members of his team are underrated) or if he's just naive and is ignoring the possibility that some of his teammates might go up during the session. A strong team at the beginning of the session has to have players who are strong for their skill levels, right? Wouldn't you expect some of those players to be close to going up?

Well here we are at the end of the session and guess what's happening? This league started off as an in-house league that operated solely out of one room. The reason for that being that it's a great room, with some really quality Kim Steele 9' tables with Simonis cloth. About 3/4 of the way through the session, the league operator's friend starts up some hole in the wall joint out on the highway with a few valleys, so suddenly we're having to play over there as well.

I thought to myself here "Ok, here's a guy who doesn't have all the information." The LO must have given a reason for adding the second location (problems with the first, requests from some of the teams, etc.). When asked why, he COULDN'T have said "because my friend opened that hole in the wall joint".

Editorial Note - Personally, I could believe a LO moved teams simply because he/she wanted to get league play into another location. It's not something I would do, I think teams should choose their own locations, but I can believe it happens.

I've got nothing against bar boxes really, it's a lot different than a 9' table, but I can adjust. The thing is, these tables are just pure crap. Dead rails abound, the heaviest slow rolling felt I've ever played on, etc. etc. Not only that, but the place is the size of a matchbox and has no ventilation, so my eyes actually start to hurt and water a bit after being in there for a while. If we want to practice on the tables before hand, we have to pay for the tables, unlike everywhere else I've ever played where the tables are open to APA members for the night.

Heh, I was thinking "etc. etc." exactly when I read it in that paragraph. This is usually short for things like "rips in the cloth", "object balls don't match", and "mud cue ball". Not that any of those things are desirable, it's just that they seem to come in clusters.

Side note - It's not unusual, and probably not a good thing, for an operator to become desensitized by the complaints. It's almost all we ever hear. Sometimes it's politely phrased as a question, but make no mistake, it's a complaint.

So now we have to play in some crap bar a few nights out of the week. Ok fine, whatever, we'll just make do.

This threw me, and I still don't understand it. Your division plays more than one night a week? How does that work?

Heading into the last two games and suddenly everybody's SL starts going up without us actually having made any really big improvements. We're told that's just how the system works. Ok, that's fine too, we'll just try harder.

This confirmed what I thought earlier about not anticipating skill level changes. When you're close to going up, it doesn't take big improvements to push you over the line. The "try harder" comment also made me chuckle. You have room to "try harder"? Why weren't you trying your hardest before?

One team has to forfeit to us and for some reason the LO says we only get half the points that we're supposed to for the forfeit. I still haven't heard the reason for that call.

Some operators put that into their bylaws to prevent intentional forfeits at the end of the session. My thought upon reading this was "I bet this guy hasn't even bothered to read the bylaws."

Side note - anything that's not done as prescribed in the Team Manual should be in the local bylaws. If this isn't in the bylaws, you have a legitimate complaint.

We've ended up on top despite all of this, but going into the "playoffs" and we can no longer play at our home room. The LO said that there is a rule stating that the "playoffs" have to be held on 7' tables. Where, in any of the rules does, it say that??? I called the LO and he said that the room owner no longer wanted any APA play going on there. This is BS, I was sitting next to the room owner when I called the LO, so I knew that this wasn't true. I asked the LO what if I straightened things out with the room owner, could we get things moved back to the original location? He said no.

At this point I'm confused, too. I'm wondering if the quotes mean anything around the word playoffs (this was division playoffs, right, and not local team championships?). I'm also wondering what's going on between the LO and the room owner?

I've been told that we'll have to stay active for another session to be eligible to go to Vegas, but something tells me that we'll never actually get that chance. Even if we do win tomorrow, I'm not sure that I want to deal with the headaches of this LO, regardless of who goes where. Oh, and get this, the BCA league that I joined wasn't actually sanctioned, so nobody really got anything and never had a chance of advancing in that league. Apparently a new BCA sanctioned league is going to be started, and I might join in on that, but all of this leaves a very bad taste in my mouth.

If you made it through all of that, thanks, lol. :thumbup:

This was pretty tough to do, but it would have been much easier had I not read the rest of the thread first. I'm only trying to give you a sense of what goes through an operator's mind when they read this. I'm not trying to give my opinion of you or your team, or what I think actually happened.

As for what actually happened, it's not clear to me what you mean by "having to play over there as well". Did some of the teams get moved, thereby creating a traveling division, or does the whole division play in-house at one location this week and in-house at the other location next week? The latter is quite unusual, and at least in my area the former only happens at the request of the team and only if there's an actual problem with the original location.

Besides the switching of locations, the rest of the stuff you describe could be standard operating procedure. The forfeit rule should be in the bylaws, as should the requirement to stay active, and strong teams should expect handicaps to change. The LO could be making it all up as he goes along, too, in which case you have quite a complaint and you should be following up with the national office.

 

[AZ Big Jim]

We have a great LO here. Even in the summer we have over 50 divisions with about 8>10 teams per division. Not bad for a metropolitan area with less than 2 million people. Only $2.00 of the $7.00 fee goes toward running the league - the rest is returned in prize mony and Vegas travel expense.

If you play 1/2 of your games on 9' tables or tight pocket tables you players skill levels wil be lower than those who play on wide pocket valley tables with wide pockets. Not suprising you won the division.

Our local by laws do say that league play will be on a 7' table if one is available but I do believe the host location for playoffs is determined by the higher ranking team unless a double jeapordy team is involved in both 8 & 9-Ball playoffs. Then, of course, both matches must be played at the same loacation and the location must have at least two tables.

There are very few activities that are fun most nights and only ost $7.00. We have gone from first to worst in one session. We have fun and don't worry about it. Try and do the same.