So...why spend hundreds on a break cue??

galipeau said:
LOL, I was going to start a thread recently about LD break cues vs Standard break cues. I might as well pose the question here. Have any of you switched or tried both and found a noticeable difference? I'm talking about cue ball control and ball pocketing off the break.
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Technically speaking, you don't need a LD shaft on a break cue if you only plan on hitting dead center of the cue ball. If you fancy the cut break though, it could help since you aren't hitting the center of the cueball and deflection comes in play, but since the shot is almost always the same, it shouldn't matter even with a non-LD shaft.

Now, considering that we don't hit exactly dead-center, it could actually help minimise the error that would be created from hitting away from the center of the cueball.
 
SamLambert said:
It does actually do something very specific, but it's not like I could expect you to know ;)


You can very much feel the difference when trying both cues. Sure Shane can do it with any cue, but he's a world class pro, he doesn't hit off-center as much as I do, and that's where the well placed natural pivot point helps.
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So stop hitting off center. Saying you need $400 spent on a cue to fix a stroke problem is silly.


Also, el oh el
 
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I think it's mental reasons. If folks think the expensive cue is better, it is better. I am glad that I do not see a difference between my 70$ player and the expensive break cues borrowed from friends.

That's my angle, and I'm sticking to it.
 
SamLambert said:
I'd actually bet SVB knows where the natural pivot points of his cues are.

And since you don't seem to have a clue what the natural pivot point actually does for a cue: http://billiards.colostate.edu/bd_articles/2007/nov07.pdf




You are able to? Because even top pros struggle with doing that consistently.
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Yeah, sure .
And he's bridging on the pivot point on all his breaks.
How in the world did phenolic tips and epoxy soaked leather tips caught on when they cause more deflection?
 
SamLambert said:
Don't you know custom cues are vastly superior performance-wise to any other type of cue?

On a more serious note, I'd tend to disagree. A break cue is very much about the balance and natural pivot point (and of course tip) of the cue and I doubt house cues have the appropriate proprieties in that regard.
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The pivot point of a break cue means very little to me. I break the same with my LD break cue as I do with my regular Maple shaft spare playing cue. My goal when I break is to park the cue ball at center table so all I am doing is hitting center ball slightly above center where pivot point has no affect. I prefer breaking with my spare playing cue with a leather tip because I have much better cue ball control than I do with my phenolic tip. On bar boxes I just break with my playing cue because I am not hitting the cue ball as hard as on a 9' table.
 
SamLambert said:
It does actually do something very specific, but it's not like I could expect you to know ;)




You can very much feel the difference when trying both cues. Sure Shane can do it with any cue, but he's a world class pro, he doesn't hit off-center as much as I do, and that's where the well placed natural pivot point helps.
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wow, so Sam is officially Azb material now. Started hitting the ball yesterday and can perfectly speak on pivot point.
 
galipeau said:
LOL, I was going to start a thread recently about LD break cues vs Standard break cues. I might as well pose the question here. Have any of you switched or tried both and found a noticeable difference? I'm talking about cue ball control and ball pocketing off the break.
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Yes i have, I mentioned that before. One of the things that help a predator cue be such a good cue "other that status" is the fact that it's a LD, at those times when you don't hit the cue ball properly the technology in the cue helps keep you on track. Ask any of the experience people in here and they will tell you what a LD does for you and how much of a benefit it can have on hard shot (hitting) so naturally that would fall under breaking.

When Joe Shmoe uses a regular shaft along with his bad everything (even the regular guy) hit the CB like a baseball he is not accounting for deflection and thus not hitting where he intended, but since it's so fast most of the times it goes unseen and can only be identified by the CB doing all of the things associated with a "bad break"

I have a custom sneaky with a predator shaft (don't tell) and i break with it on the rear occasions that i play 8 or 9, when i don't feel like taking it out because someone asked me "or i asked" for a random game I 9/10 times give up the break just because i don't want to use anything else, I like perfection and quality so i won't sacrifice a quality break (i love to BnR on bangers) even if it a meaningless game.

Breaking is NOT the situation where luck beats skill, luck can happen so no one needs break that statement down but percentage wise it will fail
 
Nobody takes wal mart arrows to the olympics. The arrow vs the Indian argument is for cheap asses to denigrate those who have discretionary income.


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I have a Custom Mike Gulyassy with points and inlays. It's essentially his Anvil cue with my specs. I'm never switching and will never sell it.

Why I spent 700 on it? Had a fish losing sets to me regularly so a basic cue became a custom. I've sold off a few players but this cue is going nowhere.
 
brokenarrowjbe said:
Nobody takes wal mart arrows to the olympics. The arrow vs the Indian argument is for cheap asses to denigrate those who have discretionary income.


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And the Olympics don't take Walmart employees.

It's always the indian, it has to be. You have the skill or you don't.
Otherwise, we'd all play like Earl, SVB, Sky, et al.

If it was NOT the Indian, why do we practice, why do we read pool books, why do we take lessons, why do we watch pool videos, why do we play in leagues, why do we try and perfect our mechanics and concentration, not to mention learning the best patterns to run out.

By saying it's NOT the Indian is an insult to the players who work hard at their craft, both professionals and amateurs a like.
 
The olympics do take wal mart employees and Home Depot employees. I can kill a deer with a mossburg but I bet lots of shooters are not buying the cheapest guns either. How many hi points have you seen around?


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brokenarrowjbe said:
Nobody takes wal mart arrows to the olympics. The arrow vs the Indian argument is for cheap asses to denigrate those who have discretionary income.


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I have some discretionary income. I also have some common sense. Guess which I like to use more.

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It's like owning a Ferrari. You know a Toyota would get you to your destination, but a Ferrari gets you there faster and with more style and it just feels better. Then there are people who insist a Toyota is a much more wiser choice. Make you choice.
 
brokenarrowjbe said:
The olympics do take wal mart employees and Home Depot employees. I can kill a deer with a mossburg but I bet lots of shooters are not buying the cheapest guns either. How many hi points have you seen around?


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Not a reasonable analogy, at all.

Guns have moving parts that function as a result of explosive energies being released. Those that hunt, or those who may rely on their weapons for self defense, have a vested interest in having components that will function correctly when needed. Quality definitely comes into play here.

It's not even remotely the same with break cues.

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ChicagoRJ said:
It's always the indian, it has to be. You have the skill or you don't.
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RJ,

You're oversimplifying the premise. Take Archer A and have him take 10 shots at a target with crappy arrows and then 10 more with perfect arrows. He'll post better results with perfect arrows.

In some cases, the better arrows would allow Archer B to post the same or even better results as Archer A, even though Archer B is not as good a shooter as Archer A.

There is, of course, a limit to how much equipment can overcome an advantage in skill; that's why we all practice. But you can't just dismiss equipment gains outright with the, "It's not the arrow, it's the Indian" argument.

Taek

P.S. We ALL have seen or heard the story about how "so-and-so" beat some schlub out of THOUSANDS of dollars shooting with some $10 Wal-Mart cue. Unless "so-and-so" beat out a champion out of some cash using that same $10 cue, it doesn't mean a thing.

PAX
 
The most important components that make a good break cue can be obtained without spending $400 for sure. Can be done for $150 or less.

Haven't seen one solid argument yet that justifies $300-$400 on a break cue, where an equally performing model for significantly less isn't available.
 
Just tried the Mezz Dual Force Break Jump and a noticeable benefit to my game compared to my current breaker which is HXT-P1. Not sure why, maybe psychological, but control of the CB was easier while pocketing at least 1 off each break in 8 & 9 ball. I suspect a change in my breaker is coming soon.


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SamLambert said:
I definitely noticed a difference between my old 100$ J&J and my new Predator BKII. By all means, the J&J was a great break cue, but it seems the BKII has better balance and a better pivot point.

I guess seeing a difference depends on how you break.
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You're concerned with pivot-point on a break cue?
 
yelvis111 said:
RJ,

You're oversimplifying the premise. Take Archer A and have him take 10 shots at a target with crappy arrows and then 10 more with perfect arrows. He'll post better results with perfect arrows.

In some cases, the better arrows would allow Archer B to post the same or even better results as Archer A, even though Archer B is not as good a shooter as Archer A.

There is, of course, a limit to how much equipment can overcome an advantage in skill; that's why we all practice. But you can't just dismiss equipment gains outright with the, "It's not the arrow, it's the Indian" argument.

Taek

P.S. We ALL have seen or heard the story about how "so-and-so" beat some schlub out of THOUSANDS of dollars shooting with some $10 Wal-Mart cue. Unless "so-and-so" beat out a champion out of some cash using that same $10 cue, it doesn't mean a thing.

PAX
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Really, I'm oversimplifying. yeah, the good Indian is gonna win over the not so good Indian every time. correct ?

So, do you want the good Indian on your team with the walmart cue, or the APA 3 with a Bushka ?

Of course, playing with a cue that is the right weight, correct diameter, quality tip, etc., is going to allow you to play your best game. And that can come from a Production cue or a Custom cue. One does not automatically play better than the other.

With that being said, I do have a very good OB break cue. But I knew how to break well before, this just makes it a little better and I like it. I'll still bet on SVB with a walmart cue over me with my OB ;)
 
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