some advice please

Eric. said:
Dave,

If a cb "cuts" an object ball, effectively hitting it off center, the cb picks up "cut induced spin", no?

How is the angle of an airborne cb hitting the head rack ball above center(airborne) any different?


Eric
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It should be about the same, as both Dave and I said/implied. But, there isn't much. In fact, if you go to the follow break shot shown at:

http://billiards.colostate.edu/high_speed_videos/new/HSVA-123.htm

you can do the math based on the quarter turn of the cueball prior to impact vs. the full turn in the air after impact. The time for one forward revolution is slower after impact, so there doesn't seem to be anything added by the impact.

Someone needs to show the cueball with no spin on it but airborn hitting the pack. I suspect you'll see the slightest bit of forward spin transfered to the cueball. I've never contradicted that. But the "cueball squatting" syndrome always has more top spin than "the slightest bit of forward spin." With the measles ball, you can always see a significant amount of forward spin on squat breaks.

Fred
 
Eric. said:
Dave,

If a cb "cuts" an object ball, effectively hitting it off center, the cb picks up "cut induced spin", no?
Click to expand...
Yes.

Eric. said:
How is the angle of an airborne cb hitting the head rack ball above center(airborne) any different?
Click to expand...
There are several differences. One is: the effective "weigth" of the rack is much larger than a single OB. That's why the CB rebounds off the rack (even with stun). Also, the angle is not very large, as with typical cut shots where cut-induced spin is significant. If the angle were large, the CB would hop very high and would fly or bounce off the table unless the hit were perfectly square. Other than that, there is no difference.

The relevant point is whether or not the CB could pick up enough topspin off the small-angle collision to slow the rebound speed of the CB. I think the answer is no. I will try to film this soon with my high-speed camera so there will be visual proof; but I am very busy the next few weeks, so it will have to wait.

Regards,
Dave
 
Cornerman said:
Top professional players have been shown to aim low and hit top. The spin on the cueball (the measles ball) shows it as does freeze frame video. Da_rookie aimed low and hit top. There really isn't much more to say on this. There was just a great thread on it in the last two weeks with freeze frame shots of video specifically with Shane Van Boening.


I'm not interested in discussing how high they or he hit. That's not in question. That's just semantic posturing. You pointed out to the original poster that he is aiming low and hitting high. I said that's exactly what pros do. It's been shown.

Fred
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"Break you addressed low and hit top. Try to shorten the bridge here and push cue through straight. You have a lot of up and down moving"

This is what I posted... aiming low and hitting high with a cue moving in an up down motion. When he hit the CB the back hand was lower than the tip. This motion is putting top on the CB.

If you look at all top breakers you will see the back hand is up higher than normal... The top played has little effect because of the higher butt. It is like a center hit. All of their tips hit the cloth a few inches in front of CB proving they hit down on the CB.

On another note.. what would you rate your play... a,b,c... apa ? bca ?
 
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i dont know about apa or bca but last year i played in a vnea league and won top shooter with a 9 average
 
Jason Robichaud said:
If you look at all top breakers you will see the back hand is up higher than normal... The top played has little effect because of the higher butt. It is like a center hit. All of their tips hit the cloth a few inches in front of CB proving they hit down on the CB.
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There have been a multitude of break examination threads. Recent ones like http://forums.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=1480786&postcount=18 show exactly where the best breaker in the world has their grip hand at impact. It also shows where that tip is at impact. These still frames support the science. I can't help that. I'm just observing and reporting.

On another note.. what would you rate your play... a,b,c... apa ? bca ?
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Are you asking him or me? Does it matter? Enough people on these boards have seen me play. But, regardless,watching videos, freeze framing them, watching top players, asking them what they're trying to accomplish, and doing this over the course of a couple of decades ought to be sufficient, shouldn't it?

Fred <~~~ A-speed at observation
 
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Cornerman said:
There have been a multitude of break examination threads. Recent ones like http://forums.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=1480786&postcount=18 show exactly where the best breaker in the world has their grip hand at impact. It also shows where that tip is at impact. These still frames support the science. I can't help that. I'm just observing and reporting.


Are you asking him or me? Does it matter? Enough people on these boards have seen me play. But, regardless,watching videos, freeze framing them, watching top players, asking them what they're trying to accomplish, and doing this over the course of a couple of decades ought to be sufficient, shouldn't it?

Fred <~~~ A-speed at observation
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If you can't tell how they break after two decades of watching videos, I see no sense trying to correct you with text. I am sure with the new HD tv, Blue ray etc.. the next decade should make it clear that a good breaker hits down or close to level with near center hit.
 
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