some help please

K

ka6on_s_laina

Registered
Hi guys I’m a 17 years old boy from Bulgaria-a country you might not even heard of. I’m playing pool for 2 years. Before a month I realized that my stance had changed drastically so that my back hand was bent inwards. So I made some changes and now everything is so weird.... my hand doesn’t listen to me...I mean I can’t run more than 10 balls consecutively(14.1)(before the changes I was able to run about 50balls and even more). I’m not sure whether these changes are for good or not. So I have a video of me playing pool and I hope you could give me some advices and basically to tell me what’s wrong with my stance, my grip, my stroke, what to change and how.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KASuwSuDQ4

Any comments critical or otherwise are welcome.
Thanks in advance!
 
Advice

First thing I notice is you drop your elbow considerably during the shot. Also, There seems to be some body movement on most of your shots. And you don't seem to keep your wrist straight on the stroke.

I'd start with working on keeping perfectly still on the shot except for your forearm. Try to keep your wrist straight and your follow through straight.

Try shooting some shots with your eyes closed.

Also some advice online is nothing compared to having an instructor work with you for a few hours.
 
I don't say this to players often but you are a naturally talented player. I like your stroke very much. You have a natural elbow drop and it works for you. Not a lot of people can do that, especially with your timing and rhythm. You make it look effortless.

I don't know if your video is before or after your correction but your stance looks great. Once in awhile you turn your back hand under the cue stick a bit but it's only slight. You can work on keeping your back hand from rolling under a bit. Otherwise, I predict that you will be a very strong player.

Just keep at it. You will get your game back again and more.

By the way, I had a swimming coach from Bulgaria. He was once on the Bulgarian Olympic swim team. He was the best coach I ever had.
 
I don't know if your video is before or after your correction but your stance looks great. Once in awhile you turn your back hand under the cue stick a bit but it's only slight. You can work on keeping your back hand from rolling under a bit. Otherwise, I predict that you will be a very strong player.
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the video is made after the corrections.And for the back hand rolling under...i think that was the problem before and it still appears

RWOJO thanks for the comment
 
Not an instructor, just a player like you......Your stroke is a lot like mine...I noticed a little daylight in your grip hand on one shot; try firming up your grip just a little bit; It helps keep me from rolling my wrist and helps me avoid lateral (side to side) movement when I pull the trigger. When your stroke has a very loose grip and you end up in a finish position like yours, there's a tendancy to "snatch" the cue or roll your wrist (you end up with a firmer grip than you started with, and it can cause unwanted movement in your execution stroke). Overall VERY nice stroke IMHO. When you miss, you don't miss by much...don't listen to all the critics about elbow drop. Yours works very well for you, and you're in very good company with great players that do the same thing...as long as the drop happens on the follow through (like you're doing) and not as the cue is still approaching the cue ball.

Your stance looks okay to me, but if it feels uncomfortable, try this: hold your cue at the balance point in your right hand and relax both arms (let them hang loosely at your sides). Face the table square, close your eyes and let the cue just drift in your hand like a compass needle. Then open your eyes and shuffle your feet until the cue is pointing at the shot. Look down. That's the most comfortable angle for your feet and shoulders for the way your arms are built.
 
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try this: hold your cue at the balance point in your right hand and relax both arms (let them hang loosely at your sides). Face the table square, close your eyes and let the cue just drift in your hand like a compass needle. Then open your eyes and shuffle your feet until the cue is pointing at the shot. Look down. That's the most comfortable angle for your feet and shoulders for the way your arms are built.
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I had done it and the cue stick pointed the shot. I feel comfortable with my stance but not with my wrist-it always want to go inwardsand and when i hold it right i miss.
And about the ''elbow drop''......who am i supposed to listen :rolleyes:
 
ka6on_s_laina said:
I had done it and the cue stick pointed the shot. I feel comfortable with my stance but not with my wrist-it always want to go inwardsand and when i hold it right i miss.
And about the ''elbow drop''......who am i supposed to listen :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

You made nearly every shot in that video and most of the time your wrist was straight, so you are not missing a lot. Change takes time. Keep working at it. You are almost there.

Regarding your elbow drop, some people believe dropping the elbow after the tip makes contact with the cue ball is meaningless and that they advise against it because there is no proof that it does anything to make your stroke better, and there are more opportunities for things to go wrong. For somebody who's timing is off and has other stroke problems, yes, elbow dropping can pose a problem for them.

They also believe that dropping your elbow before the tip contacts the cue ball is a bad thing. Again, players who have stroking issues and are unstable can have a problem if they do this.

However regarding YOU --- Your arm is a complex series of moving parts that are in perfect sync when you stroke. Don't allow anyone to come along and ruin that for you.

Does that make sense to you ---- why change something that you do well?

Your video shows you shooting firm shots. On the smaller, softer shots you probably drop your elbow minimally and on some very small shots, probably none, which would be what players who drop their elbows do.

One of your strongest assets is your great follow through. Don't lose that.
 
ka6on_s_laina said:
Hi guys I’m a 17 years old boy from Bulgaria-a country you might not even heard of. I’m playing pool for 2 years. Before a month I realized that my stance had changed drastically so that my back hand was bent inwards. So I made some changes and now everything is so weird.... my hand doesn’t listen to me...I mean I can’t run more than 10 balls consecutively(14.1)(before the changes I was able to run about 50balls and even more). I’m not sure whether these changes are for good or not. So I have a video of me playing pool and I hope you could give me some advices and basically to tell me what’s wrong with my stance, my grip, my stroke, what to change and how.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KASuwSuDQ4

Any comments critical or otherwise are welcome.
Thanks in advance!
Click to expand...



Good morning.

The second half of your video (light blue shirt) was very revealing. Much easier to see your stroke than the first half.

Who to believe? Great question. Depends on where you want to go with your game. If you were my student, this is what I would say:

1. Way too much body movement.
2. Find a Process to deliver your cue stick.
3. Find a HOME position for your back hand.
4. Stop dropping your elbow.

I did like your eye pattern on most shots. Your grip hand looks ok to me.

Good luck
randyg
 
I agree with Fran, you have natural talent. I like your wrist movement, but not on a few shots where I found a little lateral movement.

You need a preshot routine and a process that gets you to your set position, as Randy said. You have way too much unwanted body movement when you're addressing the CB. I'm not sure if you realize it, but your body fades to the left SLIGHTLY during and after impact. Your body should like a foundation to a house--- ROCK SOLID.

Micro unwanted movements will hold you back. Make sure every movement you make is on purpose. You setup to the ball SLIGHTLY different each time - that will prevent you from progressing to higher levels.

THAT SAID, your stroke will take you places if you nix the unwanted micro movements.

And I LOVE your music.

Dave
 
Fundamentals

As far as what someone said about firming up your grip, don't take that too far. You don't want to be gripping too tight, that will ruin your stroke. The daylight seen through your grip can be closed up without actually tightening your grip.

A pointer that helped me stop 'curling' my wrist: make sure your wrist is straight, then gently push your thumb against your index finger on your grip hand. This engages some muscles in your wrist and helps prevent some extra unwanted movement.

Further more on the excessive body movement: lean a little weight on your bridge hand and also gently press your bridgehands fingers against the table, these 2 things make your stance a little more solid and to stand up or move much you will have to lift yourself off the table (less likely to move then before).

Also practice shooting 10 minutes a week with your eyes closed. Do your routine and get down on the shot, once everything feels good, do a few practice stroke, then close your eyes - pull back, pause then stroke through the ball (Set Pause and Finish). This will force you to forget about the object ball and focus on what matters - Don't move anything but your arm and stroke smoothly through the cueball.
 
Who to believe? Great question. Depends on where you want to go with your game. If you were my student, this is what I would say:

1. Way too much body movement.
2. Find a Process to deliver your cue stick.
3. Find a HOME position for your back hand.
4. Stop dropping your elbow.
Click to expand...
where i want to go with my game?-to the highest possible level
I'm not sure what points 2 and 3 exactly mean
thanks!:smile:

Do we consider this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=VGSy85Chc3Q as an incorrect dropping of elbow
 
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To the OP...I agree with everything randyg had to say. That said, if you were running 50 points+ in 14.1, doing whatever you used to do...why would you change anything? I'm a firm believer that if you can run 50+, you are not far off from running 100+ (which is a professional level of expertise, in that game). You need to examine exactly what you changed, and why you changed it. Nothing wrong with trying to make the changes randyg specified. A good, consistent setup and delivery process is imperative for high level play, for most players. Many pros do odd, eccentric things in their process...but they do the same thing, the same way, on every shot. You seem to have good natural talent. Also, imo, nothing wrong with going back to whatever you were doing before. The real key is to keep having fun at the table.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
 
SpiderWebComm said:
I agree with Fran, you have natural talent. I like your wrist movement, but not on a few shots where I found a little lateral movement.

You need a preshot routine and a process that gets you to your set position, as Randy said. You have way too much unwanted body movement when you're addressing the CB. I'm not sure if you realize it, but your body fades to the left SLIGHTLY during and after impact. Your body should like a foundation to a house--- ROCK SOLID.

Micro unwanted movements will hold you back. Make sure every movement you make is on purpose. You setup to the ball SLIGHTLY different each time - that will prevent you from progressing to higher levels.

THAT SAID, your stroke will take you places if you nix the unwanted micro movements.

And I LOVE your music.

Dave
Click to expand...

Y'know Dave, I saw those micro movements too, but I've lately been changing my opinion about damaging effects. I've been realizing that it all depends on the player. I would tend to want to let him be himself for awhile until there is more definitive proof that those micro movements are negative to him. They may not be and they may never be. I'd rather see him develop his natural talent at this point and stay away from more robotic-type stuff that can detract from his natural talent.
 
FranCrimi said:
Y'know Dave, I saw those micro movements too, but I've lately been changing my opinion about damaging effects. I've been realizing that it all depends on the player. I would tend to want to let him be himself for awhile until there is more definitive proof that those micro movements are negative to him. They may not be and they may never be. I'd rather see him develop his natural talent at this point and stay away from more robotic-type stuff that can detract from his natural talent.
Click to expand...

I gotcha -- I agree that nothing should be done that affects his fluidity. However, I "believe" unintentional movements pre-stroke, during the stroke and after can't possibly be good. I'm not saying movements are bad. I'm just saying unintentional movements are bad. I know I move pre-stroke, but I'm moving intentionally and with purpose and it's part of my routine.

That said, I 100% agree with what you're saying. Nothing should be done to turn this guy into a robot. Look at Bustamante--- that guy is more fluid than a bucket of water and he doesn't get shifty with random movements (body-wise). I think you can have both :)
 
Scott Lee
To the OP...I agree with everything randyg had to say. That said, if you were running 50 points+ in 14.1, doing whatever you used to do...why would you change anything? I'm a firm believer that if you can run 50+, you are not far off from running 100+ (which is a professional level of expertise, in that game). You need to examine exactly what you changed, and why you changed it. Nothing wrong with trying to make the changes randyg specified. A good, consistent setup and delivery process is imperative for high level play, for most players. Many pros do odd, eccentric things in their process...but they do the same thing, the same way, on every shot. You seem to have good natural talent. Also, imo, nothing wrong with going back to whatever you were doing before. The real key is to keep having fun at the table.
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I know what i changed:
- I moved my legs apart
- I straightened my wrist( it is still curved but not as much as it was before)
Why I made these changes?- because of my wrist
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/714/0093fb.jpg/ this is before a month or two
 
ka6on_s_laina said:
I’m playing pool for 2 years. Before a month I realized that my stance had changed drastically so that my back hand was bent inwards. So I made some changes and now everything is so weird.... my hand doesn’t listen to me...I mean I can’t run more than 10 balls consecutively(14.1)(before the changes I was able to run about 50balls and even more).
Click to expand...

You made just about every ball in the video. What's keeping you from running 50 balls like you used to? Are you missing the pocket or the leave?

I would agree with Fran that your stroke appears to be working for you, so don't fix what isn't broken. It doesn't matter what your grip or elbow does if you get consistently good results, but I wouldn't recommend learning to shoot with wrist or elbow movements since it's more complicated than it needs to be, and harder to perfect.

I also agree with Randy that there are things you can improve. You should consider them when inconsistency becomes an issue. Keep in mind that the longer you play with these habits, the harder and longer it will be to correct them. You have to decide if you want to go down this path and if so, when is best for you.
 
You made just about every ball in the video. What's keeping you from running 50 balls like you used to? Are you missing the pocket or the leave?

I would agree with Fran that your stroke appears to be working for you, so don't fix what isn't broken. It doesn't matter what your grip or elbow does if you get consistently good results, but I wouldn't recommend learning to shoot with wrist or elbow movements since it's more complicated than it needs to be, and harder to perfect.

I also agree with Randy that there are things you can improve. You should consider them when inconsistency becomes an issue. Keep in mind that the longer you play with these habits, the harder and longer it will be to correct them. You have to decide if you want to go down this path and if so, when is best for you.
Click to expand...
The balls in the video were easy. Now I'm potting less than before and I'm not controling the cue ball as good as i used to.-That's what is keeping me from the high runs
I know that there are things i can improve and that's why I'm writing here.
As you're saying the longer i play wrong the harder it will be to correct my game so the best time for a change is now.
thanks
 
ka6on_s_laina said:
The balls in the video were easy. Now I'm potting less than before and I'm not controling the cue ball as good as i used to.-That's what is keeping me from the high runs
I know that there are things i can improve and that's why I'm writing here.
As you're saying the longer i play wrong the harder it will be to correct my game so the best time for a change is now.
thanks
Click to expand...

You fixed something in your game and that is a really good thing that you did. The result is perfectly normal, which is that your game dropped a bit. This is just temporary until you become accustomed to your new adjustments.

Now just keep playing and you will eventually start to find your game and play even better. Nothing is wrong. You are just adjusting to your corrections.
 
SpiderWebComm said:
I gotcha -- I agree that nothing should be done that affects his fluidity. However, I "believe" unintentional movements pre-stroke, during the stroke and after can't possibly be good. I'm not saying movements are bad. I'm just saying unintentional movements are bad. I know I move pre-stroke, but I'm moving intentionally and with purpose and it's part of my routine.

That said, I 100% agree with what you're saying. Nothing should be done to turn this guy into a robot. Look at Bustamante--- that guy is more fluid than a bucket of water and he doesn't get shifty with random movements (body-wise). I think you can have both :)
Click to expand...

I hear you Dave and I agree that as a rule, unintentional movements are not good. I went back and looked at his video again and I really didn't see anything that alarmed me. On many shots he stands perfectly still. On a few, he moves ever so slightly, and maybe on a couple, he got up a little quickly. His head sometimes moves a bit when he moves his eyes from the cb to the ob just before he shoots. He's a young guy with a big stroke. There will be the occasional movement. I'd like to see him compete first.

Could be the camera angle but I also thought I saw a tendency to place the cue under his inside eye, which could be the cause of his original problem. Now he stands where he can allow his cue to be under that eye with a straight arm. That is a huge adjustment and he made it all by himself. Most people can't. Kudos to him!
 
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