Some hypotheticals

J

John Barton

New member
I'd like to get some of your opinions on the following situations:
DISCLAIMER: I am not looking to start a debate that I want to participate in. I know how I would answer some of these questions and am not sure on some of them. I would be happy to see a lot of viewpoints on this issue.

The setting; Valley Forge Super Billiards Expo.

Situation #1. A booth is setup with cues you have never seen before. There are 10 of them, all unique, all intricately inlaid, all nearly flawless. Each one has all the attributes of what could be considered an "elite" cue, including pointy points. Balance is good, hit is solid and quiet. Shafts are grade AAA or whatever the cleanest matched set could be. Prices are between $1000 and $4000.

Are you curious?
Do you care enough to find out more about the cues?
Would you invest in any of them?
Would you care where and how they were made?
What if the prices were $500 to $1500, would that make a difference?

Situation #2.

I am sitting at the booth and I tell you that I and three other people made these cues using the factory's resources, but that we worked on, oversaw and approved each step.

Make any difference?

Situation #3.

There is a well known cuemaker in the booth and his logo is on the cues. Remember the premise is that the cues are perfect. And it would be assumed that the cues came from his shop.

Does it matter?

Situation #4 - These cues are from a well known American production cue company.

Do they have any value?

Situation #5 - The cues are from a Chinese cue factory, but still dead perfect.

Would you touch them for any amount?
 
Well John all answers are no until situation # 5. I then must ask how much will you be asking for this new line of top quality import cues. No I do not think it would be a good idea to have the cuemakers logo added.;)
I persuming that is who helped to oversee the manufacturing process.:cool:
 
I'd like to get some of your opinions on the following situations:
DISCLAIMER: I am not looking to start a debate that I want to participate in. I know how I would answer some of these questions and am not sure on some of them. I would be happy to see a lot of viewpoints on this issue.

The setting; Valley Forge Super Billiards Expo.

Situation #1. A booth is setup with cues you have never seen before. There are 10 of them, all unique, all intricately inlaid, all nearly flawless. Each one has all the attributes of what could be considered an "elite" cue, including pointy points. Balance is good, hit is solid and quiet. Shafts are grade AAA or whatever the cleanest matched set could be. Prices are between $1000 and $4000.

Are you curious?YES
Do you care enough to find out more about the cues?YES
Would you invest in any of them?I would probably get more info 1st but probably not
Would you care where and how they were made?Definately
What if the prices were $500 to $1500, would that make a difference? not sure

Situation #2.

I am sitting at the booth and I tell you that I and three other people made these cues using the factory's resources, but that we worked on, oversaw and approved each step.

Make any difference?Slightly more interested but still favor no as far as investment

Situation #3.

There is a well known cuemaker in the booth and his logo is on the cues. Remember the premise is that the cues are perfect. And it would be assumed that the cues came from his shop.

Does it matter?Without a doubt yes, reputation goes quite a far way

Situation #4 - These cues are from a well known American production cue company.

Do they have any value?I don't think I'd invest in the $4000 range for production

Situation #5 - The cues are from a Chinese cue factory, but still dead perfect.

Would you touch them for any amount? Probably not unless it's got a good repuation like Mezz or something like that... amount? hmm low :)
 
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Comments

John Barton said:
I'd like to get some of your opinions on the following situations:
DISCLAIMER: I am not looking to start a debate that I want to participate in. I know how I would answer some of these questions and am not sure on some of them. I would be happy to see a lot of viewpoints on this issue.

The setting; Valley Forge Super Billiards Expo.

Situation #1. A booth is setup with cues you have never seen before. There are 10 of them, all unique, all intricately inlaid, all nearly flawless. Each one has all the attributes of what could be considered an "elite" cue, including pointy points. Balance is good, hit is solid and quiet. Shafts are grade AAA or whatever the cleanest matched set could be. Prices are between $1000 and $4000.

Are you curious?
yes
Do you care enough to find out more about the cues?
yes
Would you invest in any of them?
probably not
Would you care where and how they were made?
absolutely yes
What if the prices were $500 to $1500, would that make a difference?
yes
Situation #2.

I am sitting at the booth and I tell you that I and three other people made these cues using the factory's resources, but that we worked on, oversaw and approved each step.

Make any difference? Little

Situation #3.

There is a well known cuemaker in the booth and his logo is on the cues. Remember the premise is that the cues are perfect. And it would be assumed that the cues came from his shop.

Does it matter? yes

Situation #4 - These cues are from a well known American production cue company.

Do they have any value? yes, but less

Situation #5 - The cues are from a Chinese cue factory, but still dead perfect.

Would you touch them for any amount? Most likely No, but I would inspect them much closer and decide then
Click to expand...

In each of the situations, where the raw materials came from and the quality of each would be an important factor. Quite Frankly, if the cues came from anywhere other than Edwin Reyes, then I would have a negative type attitude because of the customer support issues that could arise and get resolved, let alone of the international shipping charges that might be incurred and long wait times to get a cue back.

And quite frankly, there are already plenty of cheap cues on the market that look nice from a distance that are playable. Producing a $3-500 Chinese copy of a $1,500-1,800 American cuemakers' cue leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
 
John Barton said:
The setting; Valley Forge Super Billiards Expo.

Situation #1. A booth is setup,,,, Prices are between $1000 and $4000.

Are you curious? YES
Do you care enough to find out more about the cues? YES
Would you invest in any of them? NO. i don't buy to invest.
Would you care where and how they were made? YES
What if the prices were $500 to $1500, would that make a difference? NO

Situation #2.

I am sitting at the booth and I tell you that I and three other people made these cues using the factory's resources, but that we worked on, oversaw and approved each step.

Make any difference? what do you mean "factory resource"? like you used mcdermott's machines? used your template, your specs, your materials, your woods?

Situation #3.

There is a well known cuemaker in the booth and his logo is on the cues. Remember the premise is that the cues are perfect. And it would be assumed that the cues came from his shop.

Does it matter? does it matter what,,,,that he actually made them, or is he slapping his logo on a generic cue? YES

Situation #4 - These cues are from a well known American production cue company.

Do they have any value? NOT TO ME

Situation #5 - The cues are from a Chinese cue factory, but still dead perfect.

Would you touch them for any amount? NO. i don't like any of my cues "factory built", even if they were precision built by carl zeiss
Click to expand...

an interesting and leading series of questions, john :)....is there something we should know? is gold or stroud having their cues built in central mongolia???
 
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Well I'm going to go out on a limb and say no matter how good it is if it is mass produced it will have little or no collectable or resale value and garner little respect for anything other a playing cue.

The High prices that we see cues generating have almost nothing to do with the way that they play. I have had an inexpensive cue less than $700 that "plays lights out" and I've had expensive 3-4k cues that the build and finish quality not to mention playability was questionable. It is a simple supply and demand system. I can' seem to give the player away and you've got people fighting over the the other makers

The things that are making these cues that bring these high prices are not somthing that could be replicated in a mass production setting IMO.

Woods that are aged for extreamly long times with years between cuts.

Individual attention to detail.

Most importantly would be low production say under 50 cues a year but under 25 would be even better.

1 of a kind designs ethier by the cuemaker himself or the person ordering the cue.


Peoples preception, or for some the need to be able to one up their buddies by saying , "Nice (insert favorite high end cuemakers name) you've got there I've got 10 of those but you should really pick up a "( Next greatest maker)" that is impossible to get your hands on.

It dosen't really matter what hobby it is ( cars, guns, knives, coins) this is the stuff that drives prices.
 
A little more information about question #1...are the cuemakers for each cue identified?
Also, all the answers could be different if they were answered from a player standpoint or dealer/collector standpoint. As an example #5; a collector probably wouldn't be interested, whereby a player would.
 
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John Barton said:
I'd like to get some of your opinions on the following situations:
DISCLAIMER: I am not looking to start a debate that I want to participate in. I know how I would answer some of these questions and am not sure on some of them. I would be happy to see a lot of viewpoints on this issue.

The setting; Valley Forge Super Billiards Expo.

Situation #1. A booth is setup with cues you have never seen before. There are 10 of them, all unique, all intricately inlaid, all nearly flawless. Each one has all the attributes of what could be considered an "elite" cue, including pointy points. Balance is good, hit is solid and quiet. Shafts are grade AAA or whatever the cleanest matched set could be. Prices are between $1000 and $4000.

Are you curious? Yes
Do you care enough to find out more about the cues? yes
Would you invest in any of them? Depends
Would you care where and how they were made? absolutely
What if the prices were $500 to $1500, would that make a difference?
could depends on the above answers
Situation #2.

I am sitting at the booth and I tell you that I and three other people made these cues using the factory's resources, but that we worked on, oversaw and approved each step.

Make any difference? not really

Situation #3.

There is a well known cuemaker in the booth and his logo is on the cues. Remember the premise is that the cues are perfect. And it would be assumed that the cues came from his shop.

Does it matter? yes, if the cues he made were copied by someone else, I'd still want the original, not a copy

Situation #4 - These cues are from a well known American production cue company.

Do they have any value? not to me, but everything has a value, they're still just reprints of the originals artwork

Situation #5 - The cues are from a Chinese cue factory, but still dead perfect.

Would you touch them for any amount? nope, well I say no, but for pennies on the dollar, I might buy them as loner cues for my home
Click to expand...

Probably not the answers you were looking for, just one persons opinion though.

Jim
 
Maybe

I would check them out as long as there is full disclosusre. I want to know WHO, WHERE and WHEN. If I like what I see and know about it, I will buy it. I have even purchased a BING!
Purdman:cool:
 
Thank you all so far. I am not looking for any particular answers. I just want to remind you all that the premise is that these are all unique, one-of-one cues that are not copied from anyone. And they are all perfect in construction, balance, the works. (that's why I said hypothetically) :-)
 
John Barton said:
Thank you all so far. I am not looking for any particular answers. I just want to remind you all that the premise is that these are all unique, one-of-one cues that are not copied from anyone. And they are all perfect in construction, balance, the works. (that's why I said hypothetically) :-)
Click to expand...

there is going to be a point where value = specs + pedigree. so i guess the final answer is "it depends"
 
Bring my buddy Ken and a couple of the cues to Rackem on Thursday evening and I will give them a workout and looksee. Leonard
 
I agree

for me
no no no no no

Unless they were given to me free would I own a production cue.
Even Schon Meucci and Joss make me :eek:
 
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