Sometimes I think I don't want to win

G

Gio Sr.

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I started playing seriously just before I retired two years ago. I do a lot of stroke drills and I'm starting to make good shots and learning position slowly.

In my area there are lots of retirement communities with clubhouses with 4 tables so I go around to a bunch of them to play different people with different skill levels. A lot of these guys are in their 70s and have been playing since they were kids and are very good. One mistake and game's over.

There are three 8 ball mini tournaments a week on 9' tables. It seems like I keep shooting myself in the foot most of the time. I will almost run out but I will almost always make a mistake that causes me to miss the 7th ball and I start chasing the dam thing all over the table.

It's got to be my head, but how can I get past it?

Thanks
 
Hi Lou,

You may be trying too hard for position on the 8 which could be causing you mis that 7th. ball. It's really the position from the 6th. ball to the 7th. ball that will make getting on the 8 easier. You need to plan where you want to be on that 7th. ball from the 6th ball so you can get shape on the 8 easily.

As to chasing that 7th. ball all over the table, that would seem to tell me that you hit it too hard when you first missed it. I would suggest shooting that 7th. ball easy so that if you do mis it, it stays near (&/or blocks) the pocket for an easy shot if you get another chance at it. That also puts a bit of pressure on your opponent, knowing that if he misses, you have a simple out.

I hope this helps.

Regards & Best Wishes,
Rick

PS Remember to keep having fun.
 
Winning

Sounds like you need to work on Pre Shot Routine. It doesn't matter if your on the first ball of the run or the last ball, your thought process and routine should be the same.

A lot of players start thinking about the run-out before its even happened. This happens on the 2nd to last ball or the last ball. Try to stay focused on your routine and don't build any extra pressure on yourself. Then if you find yourself on the 8 and thinking "I just need to make this ball" you will find yourself missing it or scratching. Even on the 8 ball you should go through your routine and play position like any other shot. Sometimes it may seem odd to play position when theres not another ball of yours, so play position on an opponents ball (just don't force anything, find a natural position play).
 
ENGLISH! said:
Hi Lou,

You may be trying too hard for position on the 8 which could be causing you mis that 7th. ball. It's really the position from the 6th. ball to the 7th. ball that will make getting on the 8 easier. You need to plan where you want to be on that 7th. ball from the 6th ball so you can get shape on the 8 easily.

As to chasing that 7th. ball all over the table, that would seem to tell me that you hit it too hard when you first missed it. I would suggest shooting that 7th. ball easy so that if you do mis it, it stays near (&/or blocks) the pocket for an easy shot if you get another chance at it. That also puts a bit of pressure on your opponent, knowing that if he misses, you have a simple out.

I hope this helps.

Regards & Best Wishes,
Rick

PS Remember to keep having fun.
Click to expand...

Thanks Rick. I often wind up thinking, how did I get here in this mess. I think I stop thinking after 5-6 balls. Like I got this, instead of planning . I am working on hitting softly. I tend to hit harder when I get nervous.

Lou

RWOJO said:
Sounds like you need to work on Pre Shot Routine. It doesn't matter if your on the first ball of the run or the last ball, your thought process and routine should be the same.

A lot of players start thinking about the run-out before its even happened. This happens on the 2nd to last ball or the last ball. Try to stay focused on your routine and don't build any extra pressure on yourself. Then if you find yourself on the 8 and thinking "I just need to make this ball" you will find yourself missing it or scratching. Even on the 8 ball you should go through your routine and play position like any other shot. Sometimes it may seem odd to play position when theres not another ball of yours, so play position on an opponents ball (just don't force anything, find a natural position play).
Click to expand...

I like that idea of position after the 8. It may slow me down and make me think more instead of going for it.

Thanks
 
Lou,

Without seeing you play it is difficult to tell exactly what your problem could be caused by.

I suspect that your position problems at the end of run are really there from the start because you options become more limited as get to the last 2-3 balls. Only you can determine if that is the case.

You need to begin looking for more stop ball patterns throughout your run, and look for rolling into position zones instead of rolling across position zones.

When you practice position, start with 3 balls, break them and look a stop ball pattern to pocket the balls in any order.

Increase the number of balls as you become more successful.
 
Tony_in_MD said:
Lou,

Without seeing you play it is difficult to tell exactly what your problem could be caused by.

I suspect that your position problems at the end of run are really there from the start because you options become more limited as get to the last 2-3 balls. Only you can determine if that is the case.

You need to begin looking for more stop ball patterns throughout your run, and look for rolling into position zones instead of rolling across position zones.

When you practice position, start with 3 balls, break them and look a stop ball pattern to pocket the balls in any order.

Increase the number of balls as you become more successful.
Click to expand...

Thanks Tony. Stop ball patterns, I'm guessing that means using stop shots. Forgive my ignorance.
 
Oh I almost forgot. Some days I can just see the shots like they were marked. Other days I look and look and guess wrong on angles and cut. Not my vision, but like in my mind. Sometimes that goes and comes during a game . Weird
 
Yes stop shots.

Forgive my poor use of the Queens English.

Actually I was interrupted in the middle of my reply, had a drywall guy stop here a the house to look at an issue I need fixed.

Gio Sr. said:
Thanks Tony. Stop ball patterns, I'm guessing that means using stop shots. Forgive my ignorance.
Click to expand...
 
About the worst thing you can do in 8-ball, besides sink the 8 out of turn, is end up with a failed runout by missing the 8 or the ball before the 8. You will almost always lose the game from that point unless playing a weak player, too many places to hide either on purpose or even on accident.

To help avoid this, don't try to runout unless you are fairly confident you can. Better to make a ball or two and play safe, push one of your balls near a hole, tie up your opponents balls, etc. early in the rack and let them make the mistakes. Think chess match.

If you are going for the runout, try to really look at the rack as you are choosing the balls you want, look for a ball before the 8 that you can use to get easily on the 8 with minimal movement, ideally a stop shot or simple position play with a clear path. That's your key ball. Then look for a ball to get you onto the key ball, essentially trying to nail down a good final 3 ball pattern right from the start. This may change if balls are bumped, shots missed, etc., but do everything you can not to disturb those balls.

Then start your run normally, trying to move from one end to the other, taking care of trouble balls early, etc., normal 8-ball strategy. Look for linking balls between patterns, and if you planned correctly once you get down to the ball before the key ball you should be left with 3 simple final shots. You still need to concentrate, make sure you don't get wrong-sided and have to bump balls or travel too far, but proper planning should help you relieve some of that anxiety as you get toward the end of your run.

Scott
 
scottjen26 said:
About the worst thing you can do in 8-ball, besides sink the 8 out of turn, is end up with a failed runout by missing the 8 or the ball before the 8. You will almost always lose the game from that point unless playing a weak player, too many places to hide either on purpose or even on accident.

To help avoid this, don't try to runout unless you are fairly confident you can. Better to make a ball or two and play safe, push one of your balls near a hole, tie up your opponents balls, etc. early in the rack and let them make the mistakes. Think chess match.

If you are going for the runout, try to really look at the rack as you are choosing the balls you want, look for a ball before the 8 that you can use to get easily on the 8 with minimal movement, ideally a stop shot or simple position play with a clear path. That's your key ball. Then look for a ball to get you onto the key ball, essentially trying to nail down a good final 3 ball pattern right from the start. This may change if balls are bumped, shots missed, etc., but do everything you can not to disturb those balls.

Then start your run normally, trying to move from one end to the other, taking care of trouble balls early, etc., normal 8-ball strategy. Look for linking balls between patterns, and if you planned correctly once you get down to the ball before the key ball you should be left with 3 simple final shots. You still need to concentrate, make sure you don't get wrong-sided and have to bump balls or travel too far, but proper planning should help you relieve some of that anxiety as you get toward the end of your run.

Scott
Click to expand...

Thanks Scott. I often get caught up in making balls and forgetting the plan or even having one. I am told that when I play 8 ball 1&15. I need discipline as well as knowledge.
 
Just a small suggestion from a newbie, something that has helped me recently.

Sometimes you have to trust yourself, and stop over-thinking things.

Hard to quantify, and harder to describe, but try it during practice sometime. Survey the table, make your plan, and get after it. I have found that I tend to get in my own way sometimes, and lately I seem to be getting better results by focusing without thinking.

Good luck. I look forward to reading all the suggestions the real instructors give you, as well as everyones advice.
 
It seems you are putting unnecessary pressure on yourself, thinking about the win and tightening the screws on yourself as you get closer and closer to the game ball.
Instead of thinking about winning, try focusing on playing better and better position as your get further into the rack, and you should be perfectly on the 8 before you even realize it!
 
start shooting the hard shots first.. leave the easy ones for later..

shoot at the balls that don't have a pocket.. before shooting the balls inches from the pocket..

find ways to open up YOUR problems while creating new problems for the other guy...

don't even try to run out until you can see the winning shot....

maybe it's not your skill... maybe it's your approach...
 
Last edited:
justadub said:
Just a small suggestion from a newbie, something that has helped me recently.

Sometimes you have to trust yourself, and stop over-thinking things.

Hard to quantify, and harder to describe, but try it during practice sometime. Survey the table, make your plan, and get after it. I have found that I tend to get in my own way sometimes, and lately I seem to be getting better results by focusing without thinking.

Good luck. I look forward to reading all the suggestions the real instructors give you, as well as everyones advice.
Click to expand...

victorl said:
It seems you are putting unnecessary pressure on yourself, thinking about the win and tightening the screws on yourself as you get closer and closer to the game ball.
Instead of thinking about winning, try focusing on playing better and better position as your get further into the rack, and you should be perfectly on the 8 before you even realize it!
Click to expand...

Both you guys know me, huh :thumbup:
Thanks!
 
softshot said:
start shooting the hard shots first.. leave the easy ones for later..

shoot at the balls that don't have a pocket.. before shooting the balls inches from the pocket..

find ways to open up YOUR problems while creating new problems for the other guy...

don't even try to run out until you can see the winning shot....

maybe it's not your skill... maybe it's your approach...
Click to expand...

These things I know, but I think I am getting in my own way as others have stated. Thanks for your help.
 
Hi Gio Sr

A couple thoughts for you.

For me the 7th ball is the “key” ball. It is the one that will get me a stop shot on the 8 ball. In general, when I walk to the table for the first shot I am trying to figure out is where is my key ball and what do I have to do to get to it. This means I am looking to take the difficult shots (and break up clusters) early in the run.

I too live in an active retirement community where we play every day. One of the things I have noticed is that winning is far more important to some people than it is to others. Some of these guys really need to win and it seems to be very important to their life style. I am probably one of the top two or three players in our community and find that I often lose to people who are too invested in the game. Winning is not all that important to me any more and I find that sometimes I let my concentration relax, take the more difficult shot and unintentionally let go as it is too important to some of the others.

I have a few friends I play with who have a better perspective on the game and find that with these people my concentration does not let up. It might be worth considering who you are playing when you lose and what your thought processes are during the game.

At my age there is more going on than winning or losing a pool game.
 
I am 63 and have played pool for a long time but the last 25 years more competitively. Recently I have been playing 2, 8 ball bar box tournaments a week plus a summer BCA league, plus practicing one day a week with a friend of mine who is much younger, and a very good player and captain of my BCA team. I also practice on my own. All the competition has really helped raise my level of play. When I practice by myself or play a social game its ok, and sometimes I need to work on certain things by myself, but nothing has made me a better player than competing against good players of all ages, both male and female, who really want to win. I think Joe nailed it. If you just want to play socially and have a good time, play players who are looking for the same thing. If you like competition, then play in tournaments or gamble with players who share your same interest. I seem to always play better when there is something to play for.
 
JoeW said:
Hi Gio Sr

A couple thoughts for you.

For me the 7th ball is the “key” ball. It is the one that will get me a stop shot on the 8 ball. In general, when I walk to the table for the first shot I am trying to figure out is where is my key ball and what do I have to do to get to it. This means I am looking to take the difficult shots (and break up clusters) early in the run.

I too live in an active retirement community where we play every day. One of the things I have noticed is that winning is far more important to some people than it is to others. Some of these guys really need to win and it seems to be very important to their life style. I am probably one of the top two or three players in our community and find that I often lose to people who are too invested in the game. Winning is not all that important to me any more and I find that sometimes I let my concentration relax, take the more difficult shot and unintentionally let go as it is too important to some of the others.

I have a few friends I play with who have a better perspective on the game and find that with these people my concentration does not let up. It might be worth considering who you are playing when you lose and what your thought processes are during the game.

At my age there is more going on than winning or losing a pool game.
Click to expand...

Thanks Joe,

In my area I have gotten away from the social players. Here all they want to do is horse around, like trying to get their opponent to miss by distracting them and laughing about how they got them to miss. I recently started going to the clubhouses that have mini tournaments. Those guys are better players, even on non tournament days they don't mess around.

lstevedus said:
I am 63 and have played pool for a long time but the last 25 years more competitively. Recently I have been playing 2, 8 ball bar box tournaments a week plus a summer BCA league, plus practicing one day a week with a friend of mine who is much younger, and a very good player and captain of my BCA team. I also practice on my own. All the competition has really helped raise my level of play. When I practice by myself or play a social game its ok, and sometimes I need to work on certain things by myself, but nothing has made me a better player than competing against good players of all ages, both male and female, who really want to win. I think Joe nailed it. If you just want to play socially and have a good time, play players who are looking for the same thing. If you like competition, then play in tournaments or gamble with players who share your same interest. I seem to always play better when there is something to play for.
Click to expand...

We are the same age, but I started playing a few years ago. I am a very competitive guy. I don't "have to win" but I sure want to win. I have been making my weekly $5.00 donations I call them (entrance fee ), at two of the clubhouses. Most of these guys are in APA and TAP. It has helped, but I would like to win once in a while before I'm 80+. Playing these guys has helped. I remember when I was messing around learning to play a mandolin. I got much better when I jammed with guys and then I improved again when we performed in front of people. Getting past the nerves I guess.

Thanks
 
Gio Sr. said:
I started playing seriously just before I retired two years ago. I do a lot of stroke drills and I'm starting to make good shots and learning position slowly.

In my area there are lots of retirement communities with clubhouses with 4 tables so I go around to a bunch of them to play different people with different skill levels. A lot of these guys are in their 70s and have been playing since they were kids and are very good. One mistake and game's over.

There are three 8 ball mini tournaments a week on 9' tables. It seems like I keep shooting myself in the foot most of the time. I will almost run out but I will almost always make a mistake that causes me to miss the 7th ball and I start chasing the dam thing all over the table.

It's got to be my head, but how can I get past it?

Thanks
Click to expand...

Lou, I think you are doing amazingly well. You're only playing a couple of years! Cut yourself some slack. From what you're saying, you're definitely ahead of the curve. Just keep at it. You will win one, and probably soon.
 
I think if you want to get better, you will. I was glad to see you play an musical instrument. I did also. It makes it easier for me to discipline myself now to practice alone on what I want to work on. When I was well prepared I always played my music well. I played in state competitions. I also keep a notebook where I write down what works for me, and what doesn't. The AZ forum has also been a big help. They always seem to be discussing things that I am having problems with. Distractions and focus have been 2 that I could relate to lately.
 
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