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Sore Loser
- Thread starter peppersauce
- Start date
It's a rather small price to be paid for the knowledge. I say put up with it and lose on purpose until you get everything in his head. Then beat up on him and enjoy his sore loserness.
I agree with that part...lol
Screw it. If you have become good enough to beat the guy don't hold back. Isn't that part of the reason you have been playing against him in the first place?
i havent read the other replies
kiss his ass
loose to him on purpose
do whatever it takes to keep learning from him
you are not good enough or all knowing enough to tell him to take a hike
jmho
icbw
no offence intended
i would respect him for what he taught me
rather than beat up on him
thats just me
we all will be old and crotchity :grin:
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I agree. Whoop his azz everytime but be nice. Seperate the two things. Always be nice but pummel him like none other.
Buy him a beer then pummel him some more. Watch the pretty fireworks.
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IT'S CALLED PRIDE!!!!
Pride (noun):
1.a high or inordinate opinion of one's own dignity, importance, merit, or superiority, whether as cherished in the mind or as displayed in bearing, conduct, etc.
Not an admirable trait in my opinion. Nothing wrong with integrity and confidence.
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accept it
Accept that this is a man with a lot of virtues and skills who is generous with his knowledge with one fairly minor flaw when you think about it. He is wounding your pride a little when he doesn't acknowledge you played well. Wounded pride is a very poor reason to separate yourself from this person and this knowledge.
In the old days you had to be a servant to get knowledge from the old guys. You lit their cigarettes, you drove them around, you jumped to get something before they knew they wanted it. If you were lucky they threw the occasional crumb of knowledge your way.
Think of what you are paying for what you are getting. Isn't it a pretty cheap price? Too, one fine day the old player is going to acknowledge you are a hell of a player, maybe when you are playing him, maybe when you are playing somebody else. That will salve any wounded pride ten times over!
None of my posts recently would be complete without an anecdote from days gone by so I'll tell one about my first season of dirt tracking. My car was old and battered from many seasons of Nascar Sportsman racing and I didn't improve it's looks learning the ropes the hard way. There was a local god, his win rate at the local tracks was better than 95%!
I had gotten his attention a couple times by the end of the year and he happened to be standing by the track owner when I went out to qualify at one of the final races. The winner of over 500 races looked over at the track owner and said "That old son of a b!tch can run!" talking about the car I drove and wrenched including building the engine and setting up the chassis. That is one of my fondest memories from the dirt track days!
Hang with the old gentleman. Odds are you will pry a compliment out of him sooner or later and it will be huge when you do.
Hu
I agree about playing to win. I'm very competitive and I must say it feels good to beat players that play better than you do. I just feel like I can't be my self sometimes. He's being so generous by sharing all this stuff with me I feel like I can't be the competitive person I am because he's helping me out. The last time we played I dumped.sucks and I'm actually ashamed to admit it because I don't dump to anyone. I like the feeling of getting a person to that point and really going for the throat, burning every mistake they make into their mind. I generally enjoy seeing my competition self-destruct... But like I said, I don't feel like I can do that with him. I don't play good enough to beat the guy on a regular basis. It would be nice to get some kind of acknowledgement of my good play when I do though. I think that's what bothers me the most. I've beaten many guys with that attitude but it was always me taking something from them as opposed to them giving me something...
Accept that this is a man with a lot of virtues and skills who is generous with his knowledge with one fairly minor flaw when you think about it. He is wounding your pride a little when he doesn't acknowledge you played well. Wounded pride is a very poor reason to separate yourself from this person and this knowledge.
In the old days you had to be a servant to get knowledge from the old guys. You lit their cigarettes, you drove them around, you jumped to get something before they knew they wanted it. If you were lucky they threw the occasional crumb of knowledge your way.
Think of what you are paying for what you are getting. Isn't it a pretty cheap price? Too, one fine day the old player is going to acknowledge you are a hell of a player, maybe when you are playing him, maybe when you are playing somebody else. That will salve any wounded pride ten times over!
None of my posts recently would be complete without an anecdote from days gone by so I'll tell one about my first season of dirt tracking. My car was old and battered from many seasons of Nascar Sportsman racing and I didn't improve it's looks learning the ropes the hard way. There was a local god, his win rate at the local tracks was better than 95%!
I had gotten his attention a couple times by the end of the year and he happened to be standing by the track owner when I went out to qualify at one of the final races. The winner of over 500 races looked over at the track owner and said "That old son of a b!tch can run!" talking about the car I drove and wrenched including building the engine and setting up the chassis. That is one of my fondest memories from the dirt track days!
Hang with the old gentleman. Odds are you will pry a compliment out of him sooner or later and it will be huge when you do.
Hu
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I think the "pride" problem is his and you shouldn't let it become yours.
Play to win and suffer the consequences when you do.
Guys like you are playing aren't exactly a dime a dozen and when you are his age or my age, you will relish the memories of the things he taught you.
Play to win and suffer the consequences when you do.
Guys like you are playing aren't exactly a dime a dozen and when you are his age or my age, you will relish the memories of the things he taught you.
I didn't think that
I didn't think you were fishing for compliments, I have just been around people like your old friend who have a hard time accepting that there was nothing wrong with how they played, they were just beaten by a better player at the moment.
I had several younger friends that could be like that. One was a former semi-pro or pro athlete and the idea that someone that was older and had a few physical issues could beat him over and over at any physical activity was frustrating. He always had a reason or excuse for losing, some valid, some not. He was still a very good guy overall so I just chuckled inside when he couldn't admit that he had just got outperformed. Had he and some others not been good guys overall I would have ditched them in a hurry. Good guys but nobody is perfect.
I see pride as a very positive thing. I never even had a good employee at my salvage yard or helper on a construction job that didn't have pride. The trick is to strike a balance. Not enough pride is bad, too much pride can be equally bad sometimes. It is a balancing act. As my posts indicate, I'd far rather have a little too much than too little! :grin:
Hu
I didn't think you were fishing for compliments, I have just been around people like your old friend who have a hard time accepting that there was nothing wrong with how they played, they were just beaten by a better player at the moment.
I had several younger friends that could be like that. One was a former semi-pro or pro athlete and the idea that someone that was older and had a few physical issues could beat him over and over at any physical activity was frustrating. He always had a reason or excuse for losing, some valid, some not. He was still a very good guy overall so I just chuckled inside when he couldn't admit that he had just got outperformed. Had he and some others not been good guys overall I would have ditched them in a hurry. Good guys but nobody is perfect.
I see pride as a very positive thing. I never even had a good employee at my salvage yard or helper on a construction job that didn't have pride. The trick is to strike a balance. Not enough pride is bad, too much pride can be equally bad sometimes. It is a balancing act. As my posts indicate, I'd far rather have a little too much than too little! :grin:
Hu
Lesson
Sounds like you may be overlooking the real lesson he is teaching, Grasshopper.
Sounds like you may be overlooking the real lesson he is teaching, Grasshopper.
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I could have chosen another way.
I once had a great player in my pool room who aged as the years passed. Eventually I became good enough to beat him on his worst day in his worst years. Not a whole lot to be proud of. I like you, took relish in beating him when I had the chance. Once he saw that I could beat him, he quit playing me and I lost the best view of 60 years of experience.
New York Blackie in his prime would beat on guys like me for breakfast.
My youth failed to have enough wisdom to provide the smart thing to do.
I didn't realize at the time, much about Blackie's past or even current situation and was just interested in finding out his "secrets" and eventually beating him. What I should have realized is that Blackie shared some of his secrets with guys like me for the few dollars that he managed to steal from our ever-flowing wallets. Even in his 70's Blackie only got a little money from SSI, maybe $300 a month as I recall. He would hustle a little pool here and there where he could make a score. In the latter years, he was forced to take whatever crumbs he could find, sometimes playing only for a few dollars per game with locals. He would occasionally share some of his knowledge with me, but mostly I learned the "old way", by paying my dues, getting beat on by the better player and watching how they did it and hopefully, learning as I paid.
Blackie never made any big money off of me. Most of the time we played for $5 or $10 a game one pocket. I almost always lost. Occasionally I would break even and once I got one game ahead, he quit me, never to play me again. If only my lack of wisdom hadn't failed me. If only I would have imagined what it was like to wear his shoes. Alas, I was too full of myself, my ideas and goals to see what really should have been done.
Instead of making it my life goal to best an aging champion, I should have found a way to befriend him in his later years, perhaps not by offering charity but perhaps by offering a mutually beneficial alliance that would keep his dignity intact and still provide me what I actually wanted. I could have offered to pay him for lessons and perhaps provide needed "assistance" where practical. I could have asked him to become my "Pool Sensei", in the pool world, an honored title for one who has walked the walk and gone before me. Instead, I winced at the idea that he quit me when I could finally beat him, depriving me of the opportunity to regain some of the money that I had lost to him over the years. I felt that Blackie had somehow deprived me of the opportunity to "prove myself" by the student besting the teacher. Unfortunately, that was about as myopic as one can get. I had the opportunity to thank Blackie for the years of thrashings that he had given me; those thrashings that made me strong, those thrashings that taught me how to win, those thrashing that helped form the pool player that I am. Who knows, if I hadn't been so nearsighted, I might have stayed under his tutelage for a few additional years. It could have made an important difference, perhaps the learning curve could have been shortened a bit or perhaps, it could have made my journey just a bit more fun; to see the world through his eyes rather than my self-centered, testosterone-filled perspective.
Blackie might have been able to continue guiding me on my journey, but instead, I made the decision to whine about my lot in life and while I didn't completely alienate him, I did lose the benefit of his life's experience, at least as far as pool was concerned. I just didn't have the wherewithal to do the smartest thing and I didn't have the benefit of a forum like this to have someone share with me their thoughts and perspectives.
There are different types of "sore losers". Hopefully, with the discussions in this thread you will broaden your perspective and enhance your journey.
Best Regards,
I once had a great player in my pool room who aged as the years passed. Eventually I became good enough to beat him on his worst day in his worst years. Not a whole lot to be proud of. I like you, took relish in beating him when I had the chance. Once he saw that I could beat him, he quit playing me and I lost the best view of 60 years of experience.
New York Blackie in his prime would beat on guys like me for breakfast.
My youth failed to have enough wisdom to provide the smart thing to do.
I didn't realize at the time, much about Blackie's past or even current situation and was just interested in finding out his "secrets" and eventually beating him. What I should have realized is that Blackie shared some of his secrets with guys like me for the few dollars that he managed to steal from our ever-flowing wallets. Even in his 70's Blackie only got a little money from SSI, maybe $300 a month as I recall. He would hustle a little pool here and there where he could make a score. In the latter years, he was forced to take whatever crumbs he could find, sometimes playing only for a few dollars per game with locals. He would occasionally share some of his knowledge with me, but mostly I learned the "old way", by paying my dues, getting beat on by the better player and watching how they did it and hopefully, learning as I paid.
Blackie never made any big money off of me. Most of the time we played for $5 or $10 a game one pocket. I almost always lost. Occasionally I would break even and once I got one game ahead, he quit me, never to play me again. If only my lack of wisdom hadn't failed me. If only I would have imagined what it was like to wear his shoes. Alas, I was too full of myself, my ideas and goals to see what really should have been done.
Instead of making it my life goal to best an aging champion, I should have found a way to befriend him in his later years, perhaps not by offering charity but perhaps by offering a mutually beneficial alliance that would keep his dignity intact and still provide me what I actually wanted. I could have offered to pay him for lessons and perhaps provide needed "assistance" where practical. I could have asked him to become my "Pool Sensei", in the pool world, an honored title for one who has walked the walk and gone before me. Instead, I winced at the idea that he quit me when I could finally beat him, depriving me of the opportunity to regain some of the money that I had lost to him over the years. I felt that Blackie had somehow deprived me of the opportunity to "prove myself" by the student besting the teacher. Unfortunately, that was about as myopic as one can get. I had the opportunity to thank Blackie for the years of thrashings that he had given me; those thrashings that made me strong, those thrashings that taught me how to win, those thrashing that helped form the pool player that I am. Who knows, if I hadn't been so nearsighted, I might have stayed under his tutelage for a few additional years. It could have made an important difference, perhaps the learning curve could have been shortened a bit or perhaps, it could have made my journey just a bit more fun; to see the world through his eyes rather than my self-centered, testosterone-filled perspective.
Blackie might have been able to continue guiding me on my journey, but instead, I made the decision to whine about my lot in life and while I didn't completely alienate him, I did lose the benefit of his life's experience, at least as far as pool was concerned. I just didn't have the wherewithal to do the smartest thing and I didn't have the benefit of a forum like this to have someone share with me their thoughts and perspectives.
There are different types of "sore losers". Hopefully, with the discussions in this thread you will broaden your perspective and enhance your journey.
Best Regards,
sore loser
I agree again w/ ShootingArts. I learned from an old man that would not teach me anything. I had to play & watch & STEAL IT from him because he was not going to give me anythimg. He new that if he did, the sooner I'd be beating him. That time came fairly quickly as I am a pretty quick study. My dad taught me the basic fundementals, but almost everthing else I STOLE form that old man. I owe it 'all' to him even though he did not give it to me freely he still played me & he did not have to do that. He even continued to play me as it became a challenge to him to beat me!
No one likes to lose, but I doubt that he'd like it if he knew U were dumping. Just be respectful, polite & nice when you're beating him. Who knows, he may even have another level he's not using for you...yet.
I agree again w/ ShootingArts. I learned from an old man that would not teach me anything. I had to play & watch & STEAL IT from him because he was not going to give me anythimg. He new that if he did, the sooner I'd be beating him. That time came fairly quickly as I am a pretty quick study. My dad taught me the basic fundementals, but almost everthing else I STOLE form that old man. I owe it 'all' to him even though he did not give it to me freely he still played me & he did not have to do that. He even continued to play me as it became a challenge to him to beat me!
No one likes to lose, but I doubt that he'd like it if he knew U were dumping. Just be respectful, polite & nice when you're beating him. Who knows, he may even have another level he's not using for you...yet.
Great Post!!
Joey,
I clipped your post just for space reasons. Every word was solid gold. The best post I have read in quite awhile. Unfortunately for all of us, hindsight it always 20-20 or better, foresight not so good! If the original poster or even one person takes advantage of your experience that will be fantastic. Few young men place the value they should on the old giants. That was one thing that helped my game early on, I played in a ratty old hall and watched the old men that had grown up playing straight pool. I copied their style first not so consciously and then very deliberately.
Hu
Joey,
I clipped your post just for space reasons. Every word was solid gold. The best post I have read in quite awhile. Unfortunately for all of us, hindsight it always 20-20 or better, foresight not so good! If the original poster or even one person takes advantage of your experience that will be fantastic. Few young men place the value they should on the old giants. That was one thing that helped my game early on, I played in a ratty old hall and watched the old men that had grown up playing straight pool. I copied their style first not so consciously and then very deliberately.
Hu
sore loser
I agree whole heartedly with JoeyA also. Sometimes you just don't know what's the right thing to do. I've heard that honesty is the best policy & I believe that it is. Maybe the next time he says 'you're so lucky' you should just say you're so lucky because you've gotten better because of all that he's taught you & that you appreciate it. Maybe when you win, ask him if he's dumping on you to make you feel good & then ask him how he feels about dumping. Tell him how you feel. Ask him outright, 'we're both playing to win, right'? I did not feel bad when I beat my old guy but he was not helping me. I had to 'steal' his knowledge & then beat him with what he was too selfish to give. When we started I was 13 & he was about 63. Good luck w/ it. Hope it turns out well.
I agree whole heartedly with JoeyA also. Sometimes you just don't know what's the right thing to do. I've heard that honesty is the best policy & I believe that it is. Maybe the next time he says 'you're so lucky' you should just say you're so lucky because you've gotten better because of all that he's taught you & that you appreciate it. Maybe when you win, ask him if he's dumping on you to make you feel good & then ask him how he feels about dumping. Tell him how you feel. Ask him outright, 'we're both playing to win, right'? I did not feel bad when I beat my old guy but he was not helping me. I had to 'steal' his knowledge & then beat him with what he was too selfish to give. When we started I was 13 & he was about 63. Good luck w/ it. Hope it turns out well.