Speed Pool!

[Colin Colenso]

I'm attempting to sell sponsors for a speed pool event in China.

The main reason is I think it can make great TV content, can get high participation levels across many pool halls and should attract a watch sponsor.

I'd like to hear some suggestions on the format and rules:

Format:
15 ball pot out timed from tip hitting cue ball on break to last ball entering pocket.

Entrants pay a small fee at pool halls to attempt to qualify. 150 seconds for men, 180 seconds for women qualifies to round 2.

Round 2: All qualifiers shoot 5 timed racks with lowest 8 times qualifying for the Final shootout.

Final: All players shoot 5 speed racks and lowest 4 times shoot another 5 racks with time accumulating to decide the final placings.

Rules:
Scratches or cueball off table are replaced on head spot with 5 second penalty.

Any foul is a 5 second penalty.

Hitting a moving cueball or object ball is a foul.

This means 60 frames which should take around 2 hours each for mens and womens events which should edit nicely into 2 times 1 hour TV broadcast packages. It should also make a good afternoon's entertainment.

Would like to hear your thoughts on this event???

 

[Purdman]

I'm attempting to sell sponsors for a speed pool event in China.

The main reason is I think it can make great TV content, can get high participation levels across many pool halls and should attract a watch sponsor.

I'd like to hear some suggestions on the format and rules:

Format:
15 ball pot out timed from tip hitting cue ball on break to last ball entering pocket.

Entrants pay a small fee at pool halls to attempt to qualify. 150 seconds for men, 180 seconds for women qualifies to round 2.

Round 2: All qualifiers shoot 5 timed racks with lowest 8 times qualifying for the Final shootout.

Final: All players shoot 5 speed racks and lowest 4 times shoot another 5 racks with time accumulating to decide the final placings.

Rules:
Scratches or cueball off table are replaced on head spot with 5 second penalty.

Any foul is a 5 second penalty.

Hitting a moving cueball or object ball is a foul.

This means 60 frames which should take around 2 hours each for mens and womens events which should edit nicely into 2 times 1 hour TV broadcast packages. It should also make a good afternoon's entertainment.

Would like to hear your thoughts on this event???

I just gotta ask Colin. In a country where the pay is 40 yen a day, ($5.00), how much could the entry fee be?
Purdman

 

[sniper]

I just gotta ask Colin. In a country where the pay is 40 yen a day, ($5.00), how much could the entry fee be?
Purdman

The tournament doesn't necesarily have to be in China, Taiwan is close and WPC had good support over there, I like the idea especially the idea of getting a watch company to sponsor the tourny and it would definitely make for good TV viewing. You never know....

 

[Purdman]

The tournament doesn't necesarily have to be in China, Taiwan is close and WPC had good support over there, I like the idea especially the idea of getting a watch company to sponsor the tourny and it would definitely make for good TV viewing. You never know....

Go back and read the post, it says "in China". Maybe Colin, FL, and Top Spin have figured out how to get blood out of a turnip. I know what it is like in China man. I asked a reasonable question, so please don't bust my balls!!!
Purdman
Do you know what it is like in China?????

 

[Colin Colenso]

I just gotta ask Colin. In a country where the pay is 40 yen a day, ($5.00), how much could the entry fee be?
Purdman

In Shanghai where I am there are about 17 million people including 300,000 expats. There would be about a million people with salaries over 5,000 Renmimbi (US$600) per month. Conversion rate is 8.27.

Usual comp fees are 50 to 100RMB entry. Table rates are around 40RMB/hour. There are about 500 clubs in Shanghai. I would charge just 10RMB per entry attempt. 90% of revenue would be from Sponsorship. My previous event was 100% sponsor supported and provided meals and accommodation to over 100 players for a week.

Don, I would appreciate it if you wouldn't speculate about who my business partners are. I run my own events through my company Human Action Media www.hamcorp.com

FL provides some articles for my website www.cuezine.com

Frankly I cannot see why that should offend anyone. I dedicate my life to promote this game and do my utmost to be considerate to all fellow enthusiasts.

 

[Purdman]

In Shanghai where I am there are about 17 million people including 300,000 expats. There would be about a million people with salaries over 5,000 Renmimbi (US$600) per month. Conversion rate is 8.27.

Usual comp fees are 50 to 100RMB entry. Table rates are around 40RMB/hour. There are about 500 clubs in Shanghai. I would charge just 10RMB per entry attempt. 90% of revenue would be from Sponsorship. My previous event was 100% sponsor supported and provided meals and accommodation to over 100 players for a week.

Don, I would appreciate it if you wouldn't speculate about who my business partners are. I run my own events through my company Human Action Media www.hamcorp.com

FL provides some articles for my website www.cuezine.com

Frankly I cannot see why that should offend anyone. I dedicate my life to promote this game and do my utmost to be considerate to all fellow enthusiasts.

Thanks for answering my question Colin. Good luck in your venture.
Don

 

[Colin Colenso]

Thanks for answering my question Colin. Good luck in your venture.
Don

Cheers Don.

Now, to get the thread back on track, what I want to know from some of the readers here is whether this competition sounds attractive to them, as players or viewers.

Also, could any rule changes be made to make it better?

 

[papercut]

Colin,

Your idea sounds like a good one to me. I love pool as much as anybody, but even I start to find it a snore watching a safety battle or Karen Corr taking the full 30 seconds to shoot a hanging 9 ball...

Won't you have problems with intentional fouls or scratches? 5 seconds doesn't seem like much of a penalty to break up a nagging cluster or get the ball re-aligned for perfect shape after getting out of position. I suppose this is part of the strategy. However, as an observer, watching intentional fouls or scratches may defeat some of the wonder of excellent and fast shotmaking/position play.

Papercut

PS -- I haven't seen any new drills on your website in over a month. I live for these!

 

[Colin Colenso]

Colin,

Your idea sounds like a good one to me. I love pool as much as anybody, but even I start to find it a snore watching a safety battle or Karen Corr taking the full 30 seconds to shoot a hanging 9 ball...

Won't you have problems with intentional fouls or scratches? 5 seconds doesn't seem like much of a penalty to break up a nagging cluster or get the ball re-aligned for perfect shape after getting out of position. I suppose this is part of the strategy. However, as an observer, watching intentional fouls or scratches may defeat some of the wonder of excellent and fast shotmaking/position play.

Papercut

PS -- I haven't seen any new drills on your website in over a month. I live for these!

Hi Papercut,
I'll have a new edition up in a week or so. We are going monthly due to time and translator constraints.

Re: The 5 second penalty for fouls, I don't mind deliberate scratching and hitting clusters would be ok because this would be a 15 ball pot out in any order.

The shots I don't want are rolling the cue ball to position without hitting a ball or much worse, moving the balls or stopping them with cue or hand. I may make it a 30 second penalty for deliberate interference by hand or cue.

 

[papercut]

Hi Papercut,
I'll have a new edition up in a week or so. We are going monthly due to time and translator constraints.

Re: The 5 second penalty for fouls, I don't mind deliberate scratching and hitting clusters would be ok because this would be a 15 ball pot out in any order.

The shots I don't want are rolling the cue ball to position without hitting a ball or much worse, moving the balls or stopping them with cue or hand. I may make it a 30 second penalty for deliberate interference by hand or cue.

I agree. It may be more advantageous to intentionally stop a slow rolling cue ball that is getting out of position and take the 5 second penalty then leaving it alone (may even SAVE time).

I still think all fouls (cue ball not hitting object ball, no rail hit after contact, scratching, interference by hand/cue) should be 30 seconds while legal hits without making a ball is 5 seconds. Hence, getting in position by intentionally missing but with a legal shot can be part of the strategy. Intention scratching, touching, etc. won't be. I see intentional scratching as a problem as cue ball being put back on the headspot can be ideal position.

Seems like finding a test group to see where the abuse and loopholes come to light is warranted.

Really glad to see some innovation in pool. My hat off to you.

 

[8ballbanger]

Hey Colin,

Sounds like a fun comp. I got some ideas to that might help you out.

For determining fair pentaly times, you could work on the basis of how long it would take to execute a single shot that moved balls the theoretically maximum distance possible. This would be about 15 seconds (12 seconds timed off an 11 rail bank shot video I found on the net plus 3 seconds for shooting time, which brings it to a manageable round time figure). So the penalties would be in multiples of 15 seconds, depending on the grading of the infringement along the lines of:

1 - Minor, +15s, object ball or cue ball did not touch a cushion after contact.
2 - Normal, +30s, missing an object ball entirely - 30 seconds
3 - Severe, +45s, Touching a moving cue ball ball with cue stick - 45 seconds
4 - Unsportsmanlike, +60 s, moving of balls with hand

Scratching should be a 1 or 2 grade depending on whether they get the cue ball in hand or have to spot it.

Go really hard on fouls or you will definately find abusers, and could find some damage to the equipment. Those spotty cue balls will also help everyone know exactly when the cue ball stops fully.

To make things really happening for the spectaters though, you could introduce a bonus system for the players to make difficult called shots, like kicks, banks, caroms and more than one ball in a single shot. If they don't make the called shot, they loose the time instead of gain it. Every called bonus shot could be -5 seconds on the score, and you could multiply that by the number of rails/balls involved (1 rail bank -5s, 3 rail kick -15s, 2 balls in one shot -10s, 3 balls in one -15s).

Hope your tourney is a success!

Cheers!

 

[Colin Colenso]

Hey Colin,

Sounds like a fun comp. I got some ideas to that might help you out.

For determining fair pentaly times, you could work on the basis of how long it would take to execute a single shot that moved balls the theoretically maximum distance possible. This would be about 15 seconds (12 seconds timed off an 11 rail bank shot video I found on the net plus 3 seconds for shooting time, which brings it to a manageable round time figure). So the penalties would be in multiples of 15 seconds, depending on the grading of the infringement along the lines of:

1 - Minor, +15s, object ball or cue ball did not touch a cushion after contact.
2 - Normal, +30s, missing an object ball entirely - 30 seconds
3 - Severe, +45s, Touching a moving cue ball ball with cue stick - 45 seconds
4 - Unsportsmanlike, +60 s, moving of balls with hand

Scratching should be a 1 or 2 grade depending on whether they get the cue ball in hand or have to spot it.

Go really hard on fouls or you will definately find abusers, and could find some damage to the equipment. Those spotty cue balls will also help everyone know exactly when the cue ball stops fully.

To make things really happening for the spectaters though, you could introduce a bonus system for the players to make difficult called shots, like kicks, banks, caroms and more than one ball in a single shot. If they don't make the called shot, they loose the time instead of gain it. Every called bonus shot could be -5 seconds on the score, and you could multiply that by the number of rails/balls involved (1 rail bank -5s, 3 rail kick -15s, 2 balls in one shot -10s, 3 balls in one -15s).

Hope your tourney is a success!

Cheers!

Thanks for the good ideas ballbanger
The spotted white is essential.

I like the bonus points system, but I think it is best to begin with something simple so people can easily understand the game. Perhaaaps later some bells and whistles can be introduced.

I also prefer not to make the penalty system too complex, so I might go with 10 seconds for all fouls and 60 seconds for unsportsmanlike fouls.

Some may play deliberate push shot fouls or draaaw baack into their tip to speed the game, and pretend it is an accident, but I doubt it is worth it with the 10 second penalty anyway.

The best players will do this in 60-90seconds so a 10 second penalty is pretty significant.

I think balls that go in off fouls will have to stay in, because an indecisive ref could slow play down and a re-rack is a controversiaal option.

Players could push all of the balls into a pocket with their haand or cue but it would cost them 60 seconds per ball.

Thanks for all ideas, advice and support

 

[fbreen]

Speed Pool

Hey Colin i wish you the best in the event.

I am not sure I am alone in this but would like to share my opinion.

This maybe a great way to capture new people to the game.

I myself would treat it as a novelty. Not something I would take to serious.

I guess I am the exception not the rule.

I would rather see a great safty battle in 9ball with no balls pocketed or a straight pool match.. then trickshots or speed pool.

Would be great to have some poll that shows if perople see trickshot or speed pool leads to people actually watching matches.

Just some thoughts.

 

[Colin Colenso]

Hey Colin i wish you the best in the event.

I am not sure I am alone in this but would like to share my opinion.

This maybe a great way to capture new people to the game.

I myself would treat it as a novelty. Not something I would take to serious.

I guess I am the exception not the rule.

I would rather see a great safty battle in 9ball with no balls pocketed or a straight pool match.. then trickshots or speed pool.

Would be great to have some poll that shows if perople see trickshot or speed pool leads to people actually watching matches.

Just some thoughts.

Hi Frank,
I also would love to see tactical battles on the TV screen. The problem is, there are only aa few percent of the audience that are hardcore fans. To attract sponsors we need to attract Joe and Jill average.

Trick shot events have been quite successful in this regard.

The snooker phenomenon began with the Pot Black series which was single frame knockout. So I think first you popularize the stars, then you caan put the real McCoy events on, as has happened in snooker.

 

[sniper]

Go back and read the post, it says "in China". Maybe Colin, FL, and Top Spin have figured out how to get blood out of a turnip. I know what it is like in China man. I asked a reasonable question, so please don't bust my balls!!!
Purdman
Do you know what it is like in China?????

Relax Purdman, I was just offering a suggestion to Colin's original post,

Cheers!