The million dollar question that keeps getting ignored.
Spin applied during contact
- Thread starter Player
- Start date
The million dollar question that keeps getting ignored.
An off center hit basically has two force vectors being applied to the ball. Please think about that.
Yes... IF the two force vectors can be matched by two different strokes then the results would be the same.
Why do you think a top level player would use a different stroke for a certain situation?
Last edited:
Actually, Pat, there is something that it does that a regular stroke does not do. And, I believe it is paramount to just why there is such disagreement about it. I believe it actually does add something very important to the shot. This will get a little long, but I believe it explains it nicely....
So, let's look at the actual game.
1. It has been proven that by far, most amateurs can not hit the cb reliably just where they want to. Most do not hit where they think they are hitting it.
2. Hitting off center of the cb causes the cb to squirt and eventually curve back the other direction. (combination of the two is called squerve)
3. Given the above information, it becomes clear that hitting the cb to a very small target some distance away becomes much more difficult when spin is applied to the cb.
4. Because of #3, most pros and instructors advocate using as little english as possible to get the job done. For example, Buddy Hall advocates never going more than one tip from center.
5. The swipe stroke is claimed to be able to impart more spin to the cb with less of an offset from center.
6. The swipe stroke has never been shown to produce more spin that a regular stroke can produce from a given offset.
7. What is it that draws many people to the game of pool? It is a fascination with moving balls, and knowing that we can do different things with them other than just rolling them on the table.
8. Most beginners become fascinated with spinning the cb. To them, they can miss the shot by 1/2 a diamond, and still be happy because you will here them exclaim "did you see the spin on that ball !".
9. Because of #8, when told not to spin the ball so much, some take offense to it because you are telling them to eliminate one of the main things that attracts them to pool. For them, it's not so much about how many balls they can make without missing, or how accurately they can place the cb after contact with the ob. Those things are boring to watch. It's all about spinning the cb and making it do cool things off the rails. It almost becomes near sacrilegious to tell them not to spin the ball anymore than they have to.
10. You will even see some advocating having the cue and even the bridge hand end up in the air off to the side after a good spin shot. They feel that is what caused the spin, so they advocate doing that. They never understand that all they did was hit the cb much farther from center than they think they did. Accuracy becomes secondary, it's all about getting more spin for them. If they can seemingly generate a lot of spin with a lot of body or arm movement, that is all the more "cool" for them.
You mean like this substantive post of YOURS.
Perhaps you should have read past the part that YOU considered & JUDGED to be substantive.
You may have found a reminder of what you already know.
I think YOU might be able to figure it out from there...
but then again perhaps not... as you seem to be afraid of getting more away from center than a bad stroke can get one.
That is not the answer.
I'll just stop there as I have been requested to do.
Last edited:
I did say please
And then POOF.... the spin was gone.
So does it keep ignorance blissful?
That "please" was in an entirely different sentence that was merely giving info of what you wanted.
The other sentence is a command to provide what YOU want.
Text only can be difficult at times.
IF I misread your tone, I apologize...
but I was not basing my decision on just that one post.
Hence the winky face. This is an open forum, to expect full agreement on any one statement is ignorant, however so is dismissing disagreement without evidence or an actual thesis.
Get declared a foul. I'll be happy to demonstrate that to anyone who uses it in a game with me.
Thank you kindly.
Last edited:
That's ok. As we have seen, you don't provide evidence when asked nicely either.
Perhaps it isn't too late to get a refund on that college Physics class.
Any two force vectors can be added to give a single resultant vector.Thank you kindly.
Correct (it would be spin induced throw, I believe, since the cut induced throw is a product of the impact of the CB off the vertical centerline of the OB and pushing the OB along the same path of the CB for an instant), but the point was that even in that instant, there is a rotational force being applied to the OB.
Almost right. The OB isn't pushed along the same path as the CB for an instant - it just goes at a slightly different angle right from the start. That doesn't matter much, just a technical detail.
The same force, at the same time, puts contact spin on the OB (and CB).
pj
chgo
SARDiver,
I think they're discussing the tip contact time and how much or how little spin comes from either manipulating your stroke line or keeping it straight. I don't think anyone is arguing what happens to the OB at this point. Maybe I misread your original statement, but it seems a bit off topic?
I think people like to compare it to ping pong and golf, because both sports use different "swing motions" to get a desired affect on the ball with different spin. I would be interested to see the differences in the amount of spin based on a swerved stroke and a straight stroke in pool, but I imagine it would be very hard to replicate and quantify the various factors involved.
I think they're discussing the tip contact time and how much or how little spin comes from either manipulating your stroke line or keeping it straight. I don't think anyone is arguing what happens to the OB at this point. Maybe I misread your original statement, but it seems a bit off topic?
I think people like to compare it to ping pong and golf, because both sports use different "swing motions" to get a desired affect on the ball with different spin. I would be interested to see the differences in the amount of spin based on a swerved stroke and a straight stroke in pool, but I imagine it would be very hard to replicate and quantify the various factors involved.
Last edited: