Sportsmanship?

[Pushout]

While I agree that, in theory, everyone playing the game should be able to block out this kind of stuff, you know as well as I do, it don't happen. The truth is, new players in particular, don't know how to deal with this kind of crap, and they shouldn't have to. Nobody should. The way I took your post, you're condoning this kind of behavior and everybody should just ignore it. I'd lay odds you can't do it yourself all the time. And, in my opinion, nothing excuses this type of behavior. Any venue that would allow it would not get any more of my money. Any organization, no matter how large or small would not get my support.
I'll go watch the hockey game, very shortly.

 

[pwd72s]

Here's one that is my pet peeve. The time to chalk your cue is BEFORE you shoot, not afterwards. I hate it when my opponent leaves the table and you get up to shoot and are looking for the chalk, only to find it in your opponent's hand. When you are finished shooting, sit yourself down and leave the chalk where it is. You're not going to need it until I finish shooting (which will hopefully be at least a half-hour later ).

Another argument for carrying your own chalk....then, who cares when or if your opponent chalks? The psychology of it all? Control as much of the game as you can. Then do your best to ignore the things you cannot control. Be in control...if you lose? Well, the other guy shot better...but he was also more in control. If you are being bugged by when your opponent chalks??? Well, that's not much control, is it? I'm a lousy pool player...but I've often seen really good players defeat themselves by losing control of themselves...

 

[RBLilly]

While I agree that, in theory, everyone playing the game should be able to block out this kind of stuff, you know as well as I do, it don't happen. The truth is, new players in particular, don't know how to deal with this kind of crap, and they shouldn't have to. Nobody should. The way I took your post, you're condoning this kind of behavior and everybody should just ignore it. I'd lay odds you can't do it yourself all the time. And, in my opinion, nothing excuses this type of behavior. Any venue that would allow it would not get any more of my money. Any organization, no matter how large or small would not get my support.
I'll go watch the hockey game, very shortly.

I am not saying I condone it, what I am saying is ignore it! Most of the time it will go away. I know that someone trying to shark shuts the hell up when I run out! But someone that isn't paying attention to the match isn't within your control so why worry if he is watching the match or playing with himself? Just play, and forget about the opponent. What is that old saying? Mind your own business so you won't be minding mine! If he isn't doing anything in particular to mess you up then what do you care what he is doing?

 

[RBLilly]

There are some who seem to worry about everything in the world except playing the game.

Very well put!

 

[RBLilly]

Another argument for carrying your own chalk....then, who cares when or if your opponent chalks? The psychology of it all? Control as much of the game as you can. Then do your best to ignore the things you cannot control. Be in control...if you lose? Well, the other guy shot better...but he was also more in control. If you are being bugged by when your opponent chalks??? Well, that's not much control, is it? I'm a lousy pool player...but I've often seen really good players defeat themselves by losing control of themselves...

Tap! Tap! Tap!

 

[Troublemaker]

Thanks and one more question

Thanks for all the good discussion on this....There are some really useful ideas here.

I do think there is a difference between being considerate and being sportsmanlike...of course with a considerable amount of overlap. And that poor sportsmanship by an opponent shouldn't be an excuse for not shooting well, but its still worth trying to encourage a sportsmanlike atmosphere in the league.

One question though....do you consider it sportsmanlike or unsportsmanlike to just knock the final ball in the pocket when you've given your opponent a guaranteed winning shot?

I thought it was a sign of respect for someone's shooting ability, but I've had some people get upset, as if they were being denied the chance to really win.

 

[DoomCue]

I am not saying I condone it, what I am saying is ignore it! Most of the time it will go away. I know that someone trying to shark shuts the hell up when I run out! But someone that isn't paying attention to the match isn't within your control so why worry if he is watching the match or playing with himself? Just play, and forget about the opponent. What is that old saying? Mind your own business so you won't be minding mine! If he isn't doing anything in particular to mess you up then what do you care what he is doing?

The OP wasn't asking about what is or isn't sharking, or whether or not a player should or shouldn't be able to deal with real or perceived sharking - he asked about sportsmanship. Personally, I can't ignore bad sportsmanship.

There are certain things everyone can do to show respect to the game, and respect to other players. To some, showing that respect means absolutely nothing. To others, showing that respect means absolutely everything.

The really sad thing is that this thread even exists. Nobody should ever have to explain sportsmanship, but threads like these pop up every few months.

-djb

 

[PKM]

One question though....do you consider it sportsmanlike or unsportsmanlike to just knock the final ball in the pocket when you've given your opponent a guaranteed winning shot?

I thought it was a sign of respect for someone's shooting ability, but I've had some people get upset, as if they were being denied the chance to really win.

I've never understood that either. I figure you're doing your opponent a favor if you concede. I just avoid it by always letting my opponent finish.

 

[Jimbojim]

Well like I said they are all a bunch of cry babies. If your opponent isn't standing next to you, or touching the table. (Lets say they give the table a 5 foot radius.) Then you shouldn't give a crap what he or she is doing. You should think about the task at hand. If you are so bothered by what the other player is doing then you don't have enough concentration to be playing this game anyway. One particular case that comes to mind is when the dude, I forgot who it was, in the IPT got pissed that the waitress walked by and sat a water on his table as he was shooting. He saw it out the corner of his eye, and it disrupted him. Like I said CRY BABY! He should have been looking at the shot, and not worrying about what she was doing. I know a lot of people will be pissed I said it, but it is the truth! What are you going to do when the camera man is lined up in your line of sight?

dude, I agree with you fully

 

[RBLilly]

dude, I agree with you fully

Thanks Dude!

 

[Andrew Manning]

I just avoid it by always letting my opponent finish.

I think this is the best solution. If you never concede, and your opponent knows that, there's no way you'll "shark" him by conceding or not conceding. He knows that he wins when the CB stops rolling after sinking the winning ball, and not before. There's no room for confusion, argument, or gamesmanship if you strictly never concede. If your opponent is offended that you won't concede an easy shot, that's not your problem. Easy shots are missed sometimes by the very best players in the world, and I'm never playing the best players in the world. If Thorsten Hohmann could miss it, I'm going to sit still and let Joe Blow shoot it.

-Andrew

 

[VIProfessor]

I think this is the best solution. If you never concede, and your opponent knows that, there's no way you'll "shark" him by conceding or not conceding. He knows that he wins when the CB stops rolling after sinking the winning ball, and not before. There's no room for confusion, argument, or gamesmanship if you strictly never concede. If your opponent is offended that you won't concede an easy shot, that's not your problem. Easy shots are missed sometimes by the very best players in the world, and I'm never playing the best players in the world. If Thorsten Hohmann could miss it, I'm going to sit still and let Joe Blow shoot it.

-Andrew

This is absolutely correct, and I can testify that it will save you some money at some point. About seven years ago, I was playing a guy on St. Croix for $200 a set and I was trying to outrun the nuts, since I was giving him the six and out. At hill-hill in the first set, he was getting ready to line up on a seven ball that was sitting in the corner pocket and my road partner (Spanish Pete) whispers to me, "Sh*t, Professor, why don't you just concede?" I said I'd just let him shoot because anything can happen. Lo and behold, my man shot the seven ball real thin, and the cue ball came off the end rail and all the way down into the other corner pocket. It turns out that under the heat of the situation, the opponent forgot that the seven was a game ball for him, and he tried to play position on the eight laying on the other end of the table! After that, I could do no wrong and won six of the next seven sets.

Unless you're deliberately trying to keep your opponent from getting further in stroke, let 'em shoot that game ball!

 

[jojopiff]

Pay Attention

My only gripe is when someone isn't paying attention and (as usual) I'm way out of line and have a difficult shot into a not so obvious pocket. I then call my shot get down about ready to shoot and they come up and say WHAT? WHERE? Pay attention D****ss and you'll know instead of interrupting me in the middle of my shot.

 

[Bayawak]

Well like I said they are all a bunch of cry babies. If your opponent isn't standing next to you, or touching the table. (Lets say they give the table a 5 foot radius.) Then you shouldn't give a crap what he or she is doing. You should think about the task at hand. If you are so bothered by what the other player is doing then you don't have enough concentration to be playing this game anyway. One particular case that comes to mind is when the dude, I forgot who it was, in the IPT got pissed that the waitress walked by and sat a water on his table as he was shooting. He saw it out the corner of his eye, and it disrupted him. Like I said CRY BABY! He should have been looking at the shot, and not worrying about what she was doing. I know a lot of people will be pissed I said it, but it is the truth! What are you going to do when the camera man is lined up in your line of sight?

I agree with you 100%, txplshrk!!

Where I learned to play pool, you have to push people out of the table so you can shoot!! And we were gambling , too.

I really thought that was funny and idiotic when this guy yelled, "He sharked me", referring to me after missing a shot. I asked him what was that for cause I did not understand the meaning of the word "sharked" before. And he said that I did this and that while was shooting, and I told him I will do anything I want and there is nothing that he can do about it but I did not, absolutely, caused him to miss. I will never do it on purpose to make the other person miss just because I am losing.

Where I came from, these are petty things that are noticed by petty people who invent a lot of excuses when they missed. They will accuse everyone and everything but will never accept it when they miss that they just don't know how to make the shot. Go out there and practice that shot, and stop whining and crying!! This "sharking business" will go on forever if you pay attention to it. Once you bear down on the shot, nothing else should matter; you should be on your own universe, you and the object ball, nothing else!

Don't complain about the noise and people milling about, if you want it to quiet when you shoot, I suggest you play in a library or inside a church!!

Remember how and why you missed, look for the cure and you will come out of it a better player. Besides, this sharking business by others only work if you let yourself get bothered by it.

Ignore it and the person who is doing it will look and feel stupid. This also shows you that they are inadequate and scared of you that's why they are trying to mess you up.

Get down there and shoot lights out!!!! And f@#k the detractors!!!


bayawak aka tirador

 

[rackmsuckr]

Most of the usual things have already been covered, but I would like to add my .02. Leagues are the breeding grounds of champions. If players don't learn proper etiquette from the beginning, then you will see unacceptable behavior all their lives. Kind of like 2 year-olds.

1. Turn off cell phones during your match or even while you are in the tournament room, and by no means, start talking to the caller! Even vibrate, on a hard surface, will clatter and make disturbing noises.

2. Don't slow play!

3. Don't throw tantrums.

4. When someone is down on the shot, do not talk, move your head, mouth, cigarette, fart, or otherwise disturb the player. I stay absolutely still when someone is shooting and expect the same respect. I do not want to win because I distracted someone.

5. This isn't mandatory for the rules, but I wish it was. Please wash your hands after using the restroom! Your opponent has to shake your hand and handle the same cueball and felt and rails as your nasty hands did! Not only germs, but ugly viruses get passed this way.

 

[Pushout]

Most of the usual things have already been covered, but I would like to add my .02. Leagues are the breeding grounds of champions. If players don't learn proper etiquette from the beginning, then you will see unacceptable behavior all their lives. Kind of like 2 year-olds.

1. Turn off cell phones during your match or even while you are in the tournament room, and by no means, start talking to the caller! Even vibrate, on a hard surface, will clatter and make disturbing noises.

2. Don't slow play!

3. Don't throw tantrums.

4. When someone is down on the shot, do not talk, move your head, mouth, cigarette, fart, or otherwise disturb the player. I stay absolutely still when someone is shooting and expect the same respect. I do not want to win because I distracted someone.

5. This isn't mandatory for the rules, but I wish it was. Please wash your hands after using the restroom! Your opponent has to shake your hand and handle the same cueball and felt and rails as your nasty hands did! Not only germs, but ugly viruses get passed this way.

Tap, tap, tap!!!

 

[crawfish]

I can't believe I'm reading this.

Most of the usual things have already been covered, but I would like to add my .02. Leagues are the breeding grounds of champions. If players don't learn proper etiquette from the beginning, then you will see unacceptable behavior all their lives. Kind of like 2 year-olds.

1. Turn off cell phones during your match or even while you are in the tournament room, and by no means, start talking to the caller! Even vibrate, on a hard surface, will clatter and make disturbing noises.

2. Don't slow play!

3. Don't throw tantrums.

4. When someone is down on the shot, do not talk, move your head, mouth, cigarette, fart, or otherwise disturb the player. I stay absolutely still when someone is shooting and expect the same respect. I do not want to win because I distracted someone.

5. This isn't mandatory for the rules, but I wish it was. Please wash your hands after using the restroom! Your opponent has to shake your hand and handle the same cueball and felt and rails as your nasty hands did! Not only germs, but ugly viruses get passed this way.

What is Earl gonna do under these circumstances? All kidding aside, if all of these things bother players enough to make them play worse and start dogging balls, I hope they tell me that in the beginning. I'll put plastic around me, an apple in my mouth and close my eyes until someone tells me it's my turn. Look... the human element is what toughens a player and beats some. Don't let yourself be the latter.

 

[RBLilly]

What is Earl gonna do under these circumstances? All kidding aside, if all of these things bother players enough to make them play worse and start dogging balls, I hope they tell me that in the beginning. I'll put plastic around me, an apple in my mouth and close my eyes until someone tells me it's my turn. Look... the human element is what toughens a player and beats some. Don't let yourself be the latter.

10/4 good buddy I know what you are talking about, and that is what I am saying too!!!!

 

[VIProfessor]

It's called pool etiquette!

What is Earl gonna do under these circumstances? All kidding aside, if all of these things bother players enough to make them play worse and start dogging balls, I hope they tell me that in the beginning. I'll put plastic around me, an apple in my mouth and close my eyes until someone tells me it's my turn. Look... the human element is what toughens a player and beats some. Don't let yourself be the latter.

The points that Linda posted encapsule what is known as 'pool etiquette'. Although it seems to be a more and more rarely encountered phenomenon, it is one of the key things that separates this noble sport from, for example, hockey. As you move up in the pool world, you will find that if you wish to be well regarded by 'players' you would do well to abide by it. If, however, you wish your pool career to be punctuated by violent episodes, vehement arguments and being ostracized by the better players in your room or area, go ahead and break out the plastic apple!

P.S.--This is a great sport with a rich and noble history, and it requires great concentration to be played well. As such, it behooves us all to give our opponents the respect and common courtesy that they deserve. Sportsmanship is always better than gamesmanship!

P.P.S.--When you're going around the pool hall with that apple in your mouth, try not to get roasted!

 

[crawfish]

I agree

The points that Linda posted encapsule what is known as 'pool etiquette'. Although it seems to be a more and more rarely encountered phenomenon, it is one of the key things that separates this noble sport from, for example, hockey. As you move up in the pool world, you will find that if you wish to be well regarded by 'players' you would do well to abide by it. If, however, you wish your pool career to be punctuated by violent episodes, vehement arguments and being ostracized by the better players in your room or area, go ahead and break out the apple!

P.S.--This is a great sport with a rich and noble history, and it requires great concentration to be played well. As such, it behooves us all to give our opponents the respect and common courtesy that they deserve. Sportsmanship is always better than gamesmanship!

I do agree with you about the "etiquette." As for moving up in the pool world, I have matched up and played most anyone that is within driving distance and often play and fair quite well with most road players stopping through. I remember most of the guys (Johnny, Earl, way before their status) even as far back as Kojak staking Johnny. However, making sure someone washes his hands leans toward the hokey side of pool etiquette. As far as being ostracized by the better players, I've paid my dues. Expecting the pool room to be like the "good ol' days" rooms where it was just about pool is unrealistic. Try teaching "little Tony" and Alex about gamesmanship. This sport has become all about the cash. If you don't think so, try charging money to play in a trophies only tourney and see the caliber of player that shows up. Oh yeah, as far as other players regarding each other, from what I can tell, they'd all throw each other in the river if the money was right. Not all, but 90%.