Spot on the wall distance
- Thread starter bamadog
- Start date
SSDiver2112
Esscot Cues
Shouldn't matter other than the distance you can see clearly. It is a straight line to the point. Any point along that line will be the same.
Spot Distance for Kicking and Banking
One-Rail Kicking
- Distance: The optimal distance from the first rail to the spot on the wall is equal to the distance the cue ball travels after hitting the first rail to the target.
Two-Rail Kicking
- Distance: For a two-rail kick, measure the distance from the first rail to the second rail, then add the distance from the second rail to the target point.
Three-Rail Kicking
- Distance: For a three-rail kick, sum the distances between:
- First rail to second rail
- Second rail to third rail
- Third rail to the target point
General Guidelines
- Common Rule: A general rule suggests that the distance to the spot on the wall may be longer than recommended for a three-rail shot and shorter for a one-rail shot.
- Visual System: For practical use, a visual system can help players find a consistent aiming point on the wall, typically 10-20 feet away from the table.
Actually it's not.
NOT TRUE
NOT TRUE
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from dr dave
Whenever I’ve seen the “spot-on-the-wall” system described in books or videos (even in NV B.35, which I filmed with Tom Ross), I’ve been disappointed by the lack of logical information concerning how far the spot on the wall should be from the table. Some people recommend “the farther the better,” or “imagine flipping the table to create mirror images, with one flip for each cushion contact.” None of this ever really made sense to me, and that’s why I used the wellknown kicking systems to try to come up with more meaningful and effective advice.
For one rail kicks to a corner pocket, based on the 2x diamond system, you can figure out the point yourself. Put a string along the 2-1 line. Put another string along the 4-2 line. Put another string along the 6-3 line. All three of those lines meet at a single point. That is the "spot on the wall" for a one-rail kick with a rolling cue ball to one of the corner pockets. Of course, you don't have to use physical strings to find the point, but that will be very convincing. The point will also be in line with the nose of the end rail. Get a bar stool and put a ball at the point for practicing the system. Once you have the target, there is no calculation involved.
There are similar ways to construct the common spot for other systems, such as the one rail bank at speed, the three cushion kick using the corner-5 system, and the two-rail kick in/out of a corner. The one-rail bank at speed is particularly useful and it is certainly not where the one-rail rolling ball kick/bank spot is.
If you want the spot to work for a bunch of shots in the bank/kick family you are working with, the distance is absolutely not arbitrary. It is rarely on the wall.
There are similar ways to construct the common spot for other systems, such as the one rail bank at speed, the three cushion kick using the corner-5 system, and the two-rail kick in/out of a corner. The one-rail bank at speed is particularly useful and it is certainly not where the one-rail rolling ball kick/bank spot is.
If you want the spot to work for a bunch of shots in the bank/kick family you are working with, the distance is absolutely not arbitrary. It is rarely on the wall.
I know not everything in pool obeys geometry. There’s physics too with rail compression and spin. But I think this is still the gist of why it works and that at least gives you a sense that there is an ideal distance and what that is and why…
Let's talk about what works and what doesn't and why. Let's say you have a known three rail track to the corner pocket and a fly on the wall identified that works.
That works because you've picked a fly that aligns with where the third rail pocket is projected outward as if the tables were mirrored into space.
And that mirroring reflects as a certain path of bounces and reflections on your actual table. Keep in mind your initial fly position is slightly different than the mathematical fly position because you're adjusting for speed, rail compression, and running english.
And you can use that same fly for a different cueball position...
...because your fly is in the same corner pocket in the mirror space.

And that results in a series of bounces and reflections into the intended pocket. So it works. Most advice is to pick a fly at least 4 feet from the table. But now you realize there is actually an ideal distance that is 1 imaginary table further and 2 imaginary tables over from your target. So table size can be a factor. And if you pick a spot too close or too far away, it's not going to work.
So yeah, let's say you have an established new fly for three railing to the side pocket.
That's projecting to the side pocket in mirror world, instead of projecting to the corner pocket.
And that's a series of bounces and reflections leading to the side pocket on your actual table.
So sure, use that same fly from a different starting ball position. That projects out to the same side pocket in mirror world.
So now you do have a new path of bounces and reflections leading to the side pocket on your actual table. Keep in mind, the ideal reference distance to the fly is a little shorter than it would be for corner pocket three rail shots.
Also these angles are a little sharper so sometimes the rail compression and running english will fight you even more. So it's no shock you'll find this to be inconsistent.
Let's talk about what works and what doesn't and why. Let's say you have a known three rail track to the corner pocket and a fly on the wall identified that works.
That works because you've picked a fly that aligns with where the third rail pocket is projected outward as if the tables were mirrored into space.
And that mirroring reflects as a certain path of bounces and reflections on your actual table. Keep in mind your initial fly position is slightly different than the mathematical fly position because you're adjusting for speed, rail compression, and running english.
And you can use that same fly for a different cueball position...
...because your fly is in the same corner pocket in the mirror space.

And that results in a series of bounces and reflections into the intended pocket. So it works. Most advice is to pick a fly at least 4 feet from the table. But now you realize there is actually an ideal distance that is 1 imaginary table further and 2 imaginary tables over from your target. So table size can be a factor. And if you pick a spot too close or too far away, it's not going to work.
So yeah, let's say you have an established new fly for three railing to the side pocket.
That's projecting to the side pocket in mirror world, instead of projecting to the corner pocket.
And that's a series of bounces and reflections leading to the side pocket on your actual table.
So sure, use that same fly from a different starting ball position. That projects out to the same side pocket in mirror world.
So now you do have a new path of bounces and reflections leading to the side pocket on your actual table. Keep in mind, the ideal reference distance to the fly is a little shorter than it would be for corner pocket three rail shots.
Also these angles are a little sharper so sometimes the rail compression and running english will fight you even more. So it's no shock you'll find this to be inconsistent.
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But if you try this with the cueball in the corner of the table, you're just tracking for hitting nipples or scratching. Nothing good will happen.
Really, anywhere from the bottom half of the table will fight you because even if you avoid the scratches, your paths will involve starting with running english and then turn into reverse english on your second rail, checking your angle and killing your expected trajectory. You'd need to workshop these shots endlessly to learn what adjustments are needed and that's questionable whether there's a consistent set of adjustments to make or if each shot down there had its own unique set of adjustments needed. You'd be a more talented player than me if you work that out.
My recollection (from something I probably read a million years ago) is that 10' is about right.
As Bob alluded to that will rarely be a spot on a wall but more likely part of another table, an ashtray, a pole, or something like an arm on a chair.
Lou Figueroa
far back enough
a spittoon, lol
As Bob alluded to that will rarely be a spot on a wall but more likely part of another table, an ashtray, a pole, or something like an arm on a chair.
Lou Figueroa
far back enough
a spittoon, lol
Sure hope that fly doesn't move while I walk around to take the shot.
"Spot on the wall" is a version of "mirror image" bank/kick aiming.
The concept also works for multi-rail banks/kicks, but of course the "spots" are farther away.
pj
chgo
The concept also works for multi-rail banks/kicks, but of course the "spots" are farther away.
pj
chgo
