Spot Shot Cue Ball Freeze

J

Jan Grzybowski

Registered
Hey all,

i have been reading here and there about following shot:

1) Object ball on the spot
2) Cue positioned in the area below head string
3) We shot the OB into either cornet pocket and try to minimize CB movement at the same time - it should not touch the rail.

I read that Efren shot this shot virtually stopping the CB in the point of contact. That would require enormous amount of throw - i can not seem to do it in that way, even using maximus outside english. Wei's link below. I would be grateful for any pointers on how to shoot this.

START(
%AN7O5%B[1\5%C[5\1%D[6\8%E[2\5%F[5\7%G[0\5%H[0\8%I[6\5%JZ9\7
%K[1\4%L[4\7%M[9\6%N[4]0%O[2\5%Pi4Y4%UN9Q1%VO1O7%WP2P3%Xh6Y5
%YD1D4%ZN2O1
)END

Cheers
 
Best I have done is left the cueball about 5 balls from the back rail.

CueTable Help



There was a topic about this not to long ago.
 
Jan Grzybowski said:
Yeah, but how did you do it ? light stroke ?
Click to expand...
Sorry,

Picture is a little off. The Cue ball was against the side rail to try to give less cut to the ball and hit more of it. I played it very soft and high on the cueball since I was against the rail. The object ball just barely made it to the pocket.

I didnt use any throw at all.
 
Icon of Sin said:
Sorry,

Picture is a little off. The Cue ball was against the side rail to try to give less cut to the ball and hit more of it. I played it very soft and high on the cueball since I was against the rail. The object ball just barely made it to the pocket.

I didnt use any throw at all.
Click to expand...
If the cue ball is rolling slowly, there is pretty much only one way to hit it. You can't keep any draw on the ball over that distance with a level cue and shooting softly. Neither can Efren.

Play a half masse shot, with maybe 60 degrees of elevation. Lots of inside english. Unless there is some trick to the equipment, stopping dead on a spot shot requires serious elevation.
 
Jan Grzybowski said:
...I read that Efren shot this shot virtually stopping the CB in the point of contact. That would require enormous amount of throw - i can not seem to do it in that way, even using maximus outside english. Wei's link below. I would be grateful for any pointers on how to shoot this...
Click to expand...
In order to bring the cueball to a stop, or very nearly so, you have to elevate the butt of your cue and use inside english. In other words, you want to curve the cueball into the spotted ball so that it ends up being a nearly straight on hit. If you learn the Coriolis method for aiming masse shots (see the link below), which applies to all shots but a correction for squirt needs to be made, that might help.

http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~dga/pool/bd_articles/july05.pdf

I can't give you any specifics since I've never tried it.

Jim
 
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I haven't tried this severe of a cut but would the drag draw shot that is in Ray Martin's book work?

When done right the CB is barely moving at contact with the OB.

Jake
 
jjinfla said:
I haven't tried this severe of a cut but would the drag draw shot that is in Ray Martin's book work?

When done right the CB is barely moving at contact with the OB.

Jake
Click to expand...
I think any normal cloth will have the cue ball rolling smoothly when shot just hard enough to pocket the spotted ball. That is, even if you play with maximum draw and hit the object ball just hard enough to make it, the cue ball will have lost all of its draw by the time it gets to the object ball. You can try this for yourself by shooting a spot shot with draw but put the cue ball almost up to the object ball but along the same line. (The butt of your cue stick should be over the spot where you normally put the cue ball for a spot shot.) See how well you can kill the cue ball. Now, gradually move the cue ball back towards the correct behind-the-line position. Use a stripe for the cue ball if you want to see where you loose all the draw.
 
i was trying out this shot a few weeks ago, all i used was outside and soft speed. its not difficult to stop the cue ball a little more than a foot before the rail, but i dont really see how stopping it at the object ball is at all possible without a masse.
 
There was a shot at a tournament where a person would get a chance to make the shot each week if they made it they would win a few hundred bucks. They had to make the spot shot without touching a rail. I could do it about 25% of the time.

I can't imagine how you could make it and stop the cueball dead without some kind of masse. I also can't imagine how you could draw past the side pocket. Does anyone have any video of this?
 
Throw wouldn't do it. When the cueball gives the object ball the momentum to go to the pocket, it retains all the rest of its momentum. If this momentum is to be nullified, it can only be by a frictional force with the cloth opposite the direction of movement (or another object, and I'm assuming there's nothing else on the table, and I'm neglecting air resistance). And as mentioned by Bob Jewett, you can't keep spin on the ball to generate this frictional force without shooting hard, and shooting hard means the cue ball is going to get to the rail before the spin can do very much.

So if the cue ball is not moving in the exact same direction as the object ball will end up moving, it keeps the component of its momentum orthogonal to object ball movement (this is the 90 degree rule). This is regardless of side-spin.

If the object ball is going to make it to the pocket, the cue ball has to have momentum at contact, and the orthogonal component can only be zero if the object ball moves in exactly the same direction as the cue ball was moving. This is regardless of spin and throw.

So if the shot's not straight, you can't freeze the cue ball. Period. However, as mentioned by other posters, you can make the shot straight, if the cue ball's path is curved. A combination of using barely enough speed to get the object ball to the pocket, and using some masse, seems to be the way to get the least cue ball movement after contact. Makes it very difficult to pocket the ball accurately though.

-Andrew
 
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Jan Grzybowski said:
Thank you for all your comments :)
I suspected that it can't be thrown at that angle.
About the spot shot draw - i don't think it can be drawn before the side pocket at that angle. Check out this vid:
http://www.barenada.com/movies/spotdraw.wmv
Click to expand...
That link no longer works. Go to the main page www.barenada.com and go to POOL and then MOVIES. The clip shows a spot shot in which the cue ball is drawn off the side cushion to a point just below the side pocket on the other side of the table. It is possible to draw the cue ball past the side pocket, but it depends on the equipment. I've seen someone draw the ball to the head corner pocket, but I think the equipment may not have been regulation.
 
Jan Grzybowski said:
Thank you for all your comments :)
I suspected that it can't be thrown at that angle.
About the spot shot draw - i don't think it can be drawn before the side pocket at that angle. Check out this vid:
http://www.barenada.com/movies/spotdraw.wmv
Click to expand...

I looked at some of the videos there and that one pocket escape was just sick! You sure as hell couldn't do it on the GCIV's at the pool hall I go to with their 5+" pockets...lol.
 
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