Stack leather wrap questions
- Thread starter Franky
- Start date
Franky said:
I have never owned a cue with a traditional leather wrap.. However, from time to time, I have been able to play a bit with several such cues owned by various other people. My sensation from these wraps was, nearly without exception, that my fingers kind of "melted" into them in such a way that the entire cue, itself, felt like an integral part of my hand, and NOT as a "tool," for instance, that I held in my hand.
In 2002-03, my cuemaker, Paul Allers, and I designed and produced a cue upon which, as an afterthought, I had Paul apply the Tiger Stack Leather Wrap. Man, it DOES look sharp!!!
After about 6 weeks of play, its surface, which I had not treated with anything, began to dry out and get a little rough. I went down to the local Centex (farmers' supply) and got some excellent saddle soap and conditioner. I gave the wrap about 3 thorough cleanings and conditionings over about a 2-day period.
It now looked very nice again, but was still a bit rough. So, since it's leather, I worked in 6 coats of shoe polish, using approximately the same method needed to acquire that "high military shine." That was in Spring, 2004, and I haven't had to touch it since, other than to occasionally rub it down 5 or 6 strokes with a decent towel. This cue, since I have owned it, has gotten consistently at least 10 hours of use PER WEEK.
OK, so how does it feel? At first, it was hard to the touch, almost like an unwrapped handle, but yet had some warmth to it. During the first 6 months of use, it began to soften slightly, but was still fairly hard to the touch.
After I cleaned it and put the polish on it, it was hard again, but now it was a bit cooler to the touch. Constant use over the next 8 months softened it up quite a bit and now, over the next 2-1/2 years, or so, it has softened up even more. It is now much softer than linen wrap, but still much harder than the old traditional leather wraps I remember.
I guess that what I am trying to say here is that this wrap was actually somewhat uncomfortable to me until it got worked in a little bit. I figure it took about 3-4 months of constant use before it started feeling like leather instead of, oh, say, concrete?
But I do WAY PREFER this wrap over linen wrap!When it was first put on my cue, it was a bit slick and would slide a little on some shots. As time went on (a couple months) and the leather got worked in, this slipperiness almost competely disappeared. As a warning, the slipperiness returned when I did all of the cleaning and polishing. It also returns to a small degree when I do the towel-rubdown thing.
None of all of this I have written so far ever effected my NORMAL SUBSTANDARD performance in any way
The one last thing I will say about this wrap is, when it was new, freshly cleaned or is recently rubbed down, it gives me "ROPE BURN" on most of my high-speed, power shots! So, I don't rub the wrap down until it gets so crusty I can't stand it.
On my high-speed strokes, I have a habit of clenching the cue just a shade before, or often even JUST AS, I make contact with the cueball. Although I get a lot of drive this way, these mechanics allow the cue to be forced almost instantaneouly backward about 1/4" inside that tight grip -- this is what causes the "rope burn." Now, since it's broken in, a couple hours of sweat on the wrap makes this no longer a concern.
So, the BIG warning is that if you decide to go this route, BE PATIENT! You will likely NOT like the way the wrap feels or works at first. However, the initial hardness WILL tone down to a very decent comfort zone over a few months of time, and its workability will also improve during that time.
The best thing to do is to find two cues with stack wraps, one that's LESS than a month old and another one AT LEAST 1 YEAR old and has been used as a shooter -- this is the way to make your comparison. And, you should do this YOURSELF, and here's why:
MY handle preferences:
1. Traditional leather wrap
2. Cork wrap
3. Stack leather wrap
4. NO wrap
5. Linen wrap
See where I placed linen wrap for MY OWN preferences? -- That's why!
-- oft heard on this forum: "Different strokes for different folks."Whatever you decide to do, best of luck and enjoyment to ya!
Franky said:
They are tackier and firmer than plain smooth leather. It feels almost like having a wrapless cue. There is a break in period where the initial wrap loses some of it's tack, maybe a month or so. Mine is just smooth black and was installed by Tiger several years ago. I take it in for cleaning and re-sealing once a year and it comes back like new without fail. After several years with almost daily use, it shows no permanent wear. In my opinion, this is a superior performance grip. When installed by a professional, it is durable.
It's a great wrap.Tiger and Rat (Meuller's) here on the boards do excellent installations. You need to have someone who works with this stuff a lot do the install. They'll get it on there right and you'll have years of good play with it.
Chris
TATE said:
Thanks, Chris -- you and I agree COMPLETELY with our separate experiences with the Stack Wrap, then. The tackiness part is what gives me the "rope burn" I described before, but there is also a subtle and deceptive slipperiness to this wrap until, like with the tackiness, the wrap is broke in.
My only difference is that I applied the 6 coats of shoe polish several years ago when the wrap was about 6 months old, as I described in my previous reply. It has NEVER dried out or needed cleaning/reconditioning since that time.
Also, as previously described, I did the cleaning/reconditioning myself after the first 6 months, using very high quality saddle leather agents, specifically Lexol PH Leather Cleaner (Glycerine rich -- pH balanced -- cleans leather safely) followed by Lexol Original Formula Leather Conditioner (Preservative -- softens leather -- prevents cracking). They were both 200 ml bottles and totaled around $10 when I bought them -- I still have nearly all of both bottles, even after 3 intensive applications to the wrap, which I did over a two-day period.
Then after waiting another two days to be sure the applications had dried sufficiently, I applied two coats of Cordovan-colored (I wanted to redden and deepen the color of the wrap) and then four coats of NEUTRAL-colored shoe polish, burnishing in each coat as well as I could. Now, with just 5 or 6 strokes of ANY decent absorptive cloth across the wrap, it still, after nearly 3 years of constant use, comes out almost as though I had JUST done the polish application! Not even the TINIEST EVIDENCE of any drying or cracking and just as solid as the very first day!
OK, ya made me do it -- I rubbed the wrap down and here's a pic at this URL:
http://tinyurl.com/2xhsup
Man what a PISS-OFF -- AZ's utility to embed pics directly into the messages is NOT transferring files from my computer into their database so I can make an attachment -- I had to jump through a bunch of hoops (wasted over an HOUR!
) to join Photobucket and set up my "album." So, that's the best I can do for now.Anyway, my cuemaker, Paul Allers, did a PERFECT job on the wrap installation, and it is as solid today as it was the day he presented me the cue in Nov. 2003.
This is actually a difficult wrap to work with and most cuemakers would MUCH RATHER put about anything else on a cue. So, Chris is right, you need to CAREFULLY seek out the person you wish to have do this installation.
Because of this, I'm not real sure about the following further recommendations, but here goes anyway. Probably Shane (?) at Proficient Billiards or Mike Webb would do a bang-up job -- there must be several others we all know, too.
..............
What he said...
mailman said:I have never owned a cue with a traditional leather wrap.. However, from time to time, I have been able to play a bit with several such cues owned by various other people. My sensation from these wraps was, nearly without exception, that my fingers kind of "melted" into them in such a way that the entire cue, itself, felt like an integral part of my hand, and NOT as a "tool," for instance, that I held in my hand.
In 2002-03, my cuemaker, Paul Allers, and I designed and produced a cue upon which, as an afterthought, I had Paul apply the Tiger Stack Leather Wrap. Man, it DOES look sharp!!!
After about 6 weeks of play, its surface, which I had not treated with anything, began to dry out and get a little rough. I went down to the local Centex (farmers' supply) and got some excellent saddle soap and conditioner. I gave the wrap about 3 thorough cleanings and conditionings over about a 2-day period.
It now looked very nice again, but was still a bit rough. So, since it's leather, I worked in 6 coats of shoe polish, using approximately the same method needed to acquire that "high military shine." That was in Spring, 2004, and I haven't had to touch it since, other than to occasionally rub it down 5 or 6 strokes with a decent towel. This cue, since I have owned it, has gotten consistently at least 10 hours of use PER WEEK.
OK, so how does it feel? At first, it was hard to the touch, almost like an unwrapped handle, but yet had some warmth to it. During the first 6 months of use, it began to soften slightly, but was still fairly hard to the touch.
After I cleaned it and put the polish on it, it was hard again, but now it was a bit cooler to the touch. Constant use over the next 8 months softened it up quite a bit and now, over the next 2-1/2 years, or so, it has softened up even more. It is now much softer than linen wrap, but still much harder than the old traditional leather wraps I remember.
I guess that what I am trying to say here is that this wrap was actually somewhat uncomfortable to me until it got worked in a little bit. I figure it took about 3-4 months of constant use before it started feeling like leather instead of, oh, say, concrete?
When it was first put on my cue, it was a bit slick and would slide a little on some shots. As time went on (a couple months) and the leather got worked in, this slipperiness almost competely disappeared. As a warning, the slipperiness returned when I did all of the cleaning and polishing. It also returns to a small degree when I do the towel-rubdown thing.
None of all of this I have written so far ever effected my NORMAL SUBSTANDARD performance in any way
The one last thing I will say about this wrap is, when it was new, freshly cleaned or is recently rubbed down, it gives me "ROPE BURN" on most of my high-speed, power shots! So, I don't rub the wrap down until it gets so crusty I can't stand it.
On my high-speed strokes, I have a habit of clenching the cue just a shade before, or often even JUST AS, I make contact with the cueball. Although I get a lot of drive this way, these mechanics allow the cue to be forced almost instantaneouly backward about 1/4" inside that tight grip -- this is what causes the "rope burn." Now, since it's broken in, a couple hours of sweat on the wrap makes this no longer a concern.
So, the BIG warning is that if you decide to go this route, BE PATIENT! You will likely NOT like the way the wrap feels or works at first. However, the initial hardness WILL tone down to a very decent comfort zone over a few months of time, and its workability will also improve during that time.
The best thing to do is to find two cues with stack wraps, one that's LESS than a month old and another one AT LEAST 1 YEAR old and has been used as a shooter -- this is the way to make your comparison. And, you should do this YOURSELF, and here's why:
MY handle preferences:
1. Traditional leather wrap
2. Cork wrap
3. Stack leather wrap
4. NO wrap
5. Linen wrap
See where I placed linen wrap for MY OWN preferences? -- That's why!
Whatever you decide to do, best of luck and enjoyment to ya!
What he said...