Stan posted another youtube---Subjectivity, Objectivity, and a little CTE

There are no objective points of aim in any system.

No matter how many times it is stated that there are. Anyone that states there are objective points of aim are wrong.
 
Technically Duckie/Greg is correct. The 'center', 'edge', A,B,C, etc. are dependent on a perspective.

Two individuals could be standing side by side & one say to the other, 'do you see the right 'edge' of the object ball'. The other could say, 'yes', but they would be looking at two totally different points & not the same right 'edge'. Hence they are not objective but subjective.

Hence for any real logical discussion purposes these points being objective would need to be conceded as 'objective' for discussion purposes & I think most have been willing to do so, since they are 'discernible' from a given perspective of a single individual of the shooter's perspective.

Best 2 All,
Rick
 
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ENGLISH! said:
Technically Duckie/Greg is correct. The 'center', 'edge', A,B,C, etc. are dependent on a perspective.

Two individuals could be standing side by side & one say to the other, 'do you see the right 'edge' of the object ball'. The other could say, 'yes', but they would be looking at two totally different points & not the same right 'edge'. Hence they are not objective but subjective.

Hence for any real logical discussion purposes these points being objective would need to be conceded as 'objective' for discussion purposes & I think most have been willing to do so, since they are 'discernible' from a given perspective of a single individual of the shooter's perspective.

Best 2 All,
Rick
Click to expand...

It's objective according to ones perspective. Just because you say it is not, does not make it so.
 
"It's objective according to ones perspective."

Like John Denver might say, 'Far Out'.
 
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There is not one objective aiming method. Every aiming method is subjective.

To use the spot on the table, what I call ghost ball contact patch, requires seeing that spot in your mind. There is no real spot on the table that anyone can be seen in order to be used.

Contact point requires the same seeing using your minds eye. There is no real contact point to be seen.

And so on.

CTE is no different. And to keep on insisting that it can be used objectivly is just being stupid.
 
duckie said:
There is not one objective aiming method. Every aiming method is subjective.

To use the spot on the table, what I call ghost ball contact patch, requires seeing that spot in your mind. There is no real spot on the table that anyone can be seen in order to be used.

Contact point requires the same seeing using your minds eye. There is no real contact point to be seen.

And so on.

CTE is no different. And to keep on insisting that it can be used objectivly is just being stupid.
Click to expand...

If that is just being stupid, what would you call a guy that was asked this- For one million dollars, point to the edge of the cue ball. And, they guys response is this- There are no edges on a cue ball.
 
I think PJ would refer to these silly pedantic arguments as "word salad". We all know very well what is meant by the edge and center of a ball. I suppose next we are going to refute the existence of an equator on a ball too, as its the same argument.
 
Until we are given another means of communication language is all that we have.

To use words inappropriately can certainly be misleading to others whether that inappropriate use is by mistake or not.

Most descriptions by individuals are usually fraught with the subjectivity of their perceptions & very rarely are ever truly objective.

Best 2 All,
Rick
 
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ENGLISH! said:
Until we are given another means of communication language is all that we have.

To use words inappropriately can certainly be misleading to others whether that inappropriate use is by mistake or not.

Most descriptions by individuals are usually fraught with the subjectivity of their perceptions & very rarely are ever truly objective.

Best 2 All,
Rick
Click to expand...

And yet, just a few minutes ago, you are in another thread defending CJ for stating that shooting from the elbow is an advanced technique that takes time to master. When what it really meant is just shooting with a pendulum stroke.

If you truly believe that using words inappropriately is misleading, then why do you defend him for doing it, but attack CTE users just because you THINK they do it?
 
Hi,
Can anyone explain how objectivity and subjectivity applies on aiming?
I understand the term in general way but I don't understand when users refer them to aiming system, CTE, for example.

thanks!
 
cutemonster said:
Hi,
Can anyone explain how objectivity and subjectivity applies on aiming?
I understand the term in general way but I don't understand when users refer them to aiming system, CTE, for example.

thanks!
Click to expand...
Objectivity is pointing something visible on the CB at something visible on the OB. Subjectivity is everything else.

There's some controversy over what "visible" means.

pj
chgo
 
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I watched the video and heard nothing that explains how CTE is objective... I would like to learn CTE and keep hearing all the perception, objective, A, B, C, blah, blah, blah. I have watched the videos from front to back at least 20 times and nowhere does it give me what I need.

Here is what I need.. Step one... Step two .... Step three... etc...

I can give the steps I use for ghost ball:

1. Use your stick to align center of OB to center of pocket.
2. Take tip of stick one-half ball back from object ball.
3. Keeping tip at one-half object ball, rotate stick so that it's center crosses the center of the cue ball. This is your aiming line.
4. Slowly move stick back to your stroke position, keeping it on the aiming loan, stroke, hit center of cue ball and ball falls in the hole.

NOTE: The problem with this method is that it does not take into account CB spin, deflection, swevre if using english, nor does it take into account OB deflection, spin, or many other factors.

OK.... Above is step by step of Ghost Ball....

NOW WHERE THE HELL IS MY CTE INSTRUCTIONS. I CAN'T FIND THEM ON DVD.

All I keep hearing is perception, objectivity, etc, etc. Like I said, I really would like to understand this but so far no one has been able to say do this and do that kind of instruction for using CTE. Like I said in another post CTE makes no sense to me....
 
Neil said:
And yet, just a few minutes ago, you are in another thread defending CJ for stating that shooting from the elbow is an advanced technique that takes time to master. When what it really meant is just shooting with a pendulum stroke.

If you truly believe that using words inappropriately is misleading, then why do you defend him for doing it, but attack CTE users just because you THINK they do it?
Click to expand...

More misrepresentation from you.

The video provided by DTL may not have been the actual words that CJ heard Mr. O'Sullivan speak. I don't know, but that does not really matter.

CJ quickly clarified that he was not speaking literally... & any reasonable rational individual should have known that because it is against the rules to actually physically hit the cue ball with one's elbow. That just shows how low some will stoop in there attempts to 'put CJ in his place' as another has put it.

I take it you missed the posts thanking CJ for that thought as it helped them as soon as they put it into practice.

I didn't & don't 'attack' anyone for the inappropriate use of words. I have pointed out such misuse or in your case pointed out the apparent lack of understanding of certain words given your many repeated nonsensical statements & associations.

It is getting very very tiring to have to continually set straight & right all of the mischaracterizations that you put forth.

I have faith in the readership here but many times everything is not read by every member & I guess that is of what you are relying.

You Have a Great Evening.
 
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tashworth19191 said:
I watched the video and heard nothing that explains how CTE is objective... I would like to learn CTE and keep hearing all the perception, objective, A, B, C, blah, blah, blah. I have watched the videos from front to back at least 20 times and nowhere does it give me what I need.

Here is what I need.. Step one... Step two .... Step three... etc...

I can give the steps I use for ghost ball:

1. Use your stick to align center of OB to center of pocket.
2. Take tip of stick one-half ball back from object ball.
3. Keeping tip at one-half object ball, rotate stick so that it's center crosses the center of the cue ball. This is your aiming line.
4. Slowly move stick back to your stroke position, keeping it on the aiming loan, stroke, hit center of cue ball and ball falls in the hole.

NOTE: The problem with this method is that it does not take into account CB spin, deflection, swevre if using english, nor does it take into account OB deflection, spin, or many other factors.

OK.... Above is step by step of Ghost Ball....

NOW WHERE THE HELL IS MY CTE INSTRUCTIONS. I CAN'T FIND THEM ON DVD.

All I keep hearing is perception, objectivity, etc, etc. Like I said, I really would like to understand this but so far no one has been able to say do this and do that kind of instruction for using CTE. Like I said in another post CTE makes no sense to me....
Click to expand...

If you really can't get anywhere from the DVDs, just give Stan a call. He has always been more than happy to help anyone that wants it. I don't think the DVDs are difficult to follow. You have to stop trying to analyze everything up front and just follow through the steps. It will click with a little practice.
 
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ENGLISH! said:
More misrepresentation from you.

The video provided by DTL may not have been the actual words that CJ heard Mr. O'Sullivan speak. I don't know, but that does not really matter.
If you don't know, then why even bring it up?

CJ quickly clarified that he was not speaking literally... & any reasonable rational individual should have known that because it is against the rules to actually physically hit the cue ball with one's elbow. That just shows how low some will stoop in there attempts to 'put CJ in his place' as another has put it.
Apparently, once again, you aren't even bothering to read all the posts. No one except you and a few other CJ defenders took it literally. So, you stating that we did is just another diversion by you to make others look bad when they question your dear leader.

I take it you missed the posts thanking CJ for that thought as it helped them as soon as they put it into practice.
And that is your litmus test for a good post? Then you better start thanking those of us that disagreed with him, because we all have a lot of support also. Just another diversion tactic by you.

I didn't & don't 'attack' anyone for the inappropriate use of words. I have pointed out such misuse or in your case pointed out the apparent lack of understanding of certain words given your many repeated nonsensical statements & associations.
Apparently you must think the readership on here are idiots if you expect anyone to believe that nonsense. How many hundreds or thousands of posts do you have attacking the words pendulum and objective? Why do you take pendulum literally? Why is just fine when you find offense, but not when others do?

It is getting very very tiring to have to continually set straight & right all of the mischaracterizations that you put forth.
Another red herring. There aren't any, because, unlike you, I actually READ posts and think about them, not just look at who wrote them like you do and then dismiss it out of hand with zero thought if you don't like who posted it, or praise it no matter what drivel it is if you like the poster. The only one putting forth characterizations on here is you.

I have faith in the readership here but many times everything is not read by every member & I guess that is of what you are relying.

You Have a Great Evening.
Click to expand...

The only faith you have in the readership is that they won't read most of the posts, and that you can say any crap you want in any post, no matter how much double talk you do. And because of that, you will attack anyone that disagrees with you with seldom discussing what the disagreement is about. Even when everyone says you are wrong, you still argue the same nonsense for years and then dare state that you were never proven wrong.

You aren't here to help others, just to have someone to look up to and to try an "be somebody" and leave a legacy, (which you have actually told me) and you will defend that person no matter what he says. Anything he says something against, you attack that subject no matter how little knowledge you have on it.

Something else about distortion...you keep trying to come off on here as some type of authority on pool matters. Yet, from what I have heard, unknown to you, one of the posters on here has seen you play. According to that person, they don't think you can run more than four balls regularly, and doubt that you have ever even put a two pack together in your life. So, if that is true, which I don't doubt at all since you refuse to provide any video of the things you say, you shouldn't be saying anything to anyone about how to play, or what works and what doesn't work.
 
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