I agree with all except the challenge part. Well said Duckie.
Stan Shuffet Challenge
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I agree with all except the challenge part. Well said Duckie.
I am not sure exactly what you mean by the 15s and 30s. I do not recall encountering that terminology. Also, I thought the 1/8 being spoke of referred to the 1/8 offset that was needed for very thin cuts. Please correct me if I am wrong.
Sorry I've been out for a few days, catching up now. So to answer the main question posed:
It is true that Stan is physically rotating farther and farther as he moves through shots 1,2,3,4,5. Not because the pocket is a steeper cut, not because he knows he has to, not because he is making a conscious adjustment. He is just lining up CTEL/A the same as he does for each shot. However, there is some visual illusion at play here, because as you lock onto CTEL/A for each shot, the actual physical alignment is slightly different. This is the "visual intelligence" of CTE. This isn't something you have to adjust to, this is what our eyes tell us as we look at these spheres on a table.
You can do a test yourself: setup shot #1, line up CTEL/A, then look where CCB alignment falls on the OB. Then move to the next shot and line up again, and compare again. You will see that the alignment changes ever so slightly as you go across the table. Why this visual phenomena happens, I don't know.
This is why you CAN'T figure out this system just by reading a forum or watching a video. You HAVE to take it to the table and put in some time to get the AHA moment. And it WILL happen, regardless of what some people say about everyone seeing things differently. I think we are all capable of doing it.
My first thoughts of CTE were exactly the same: skeptical, dismissive. But I had nothing to lose and gave it a shot. Watched the DVD, scratched head, shrugged, started going through the motions and the shots. After a couple of weeks it started happening. It clicked, it worked, it was pretty exciting to figure out. Since then it has always been getting better.
It is true that Stan is physically rotating farther and farther as he moves through shots 1,2,3,4,5. Not because the pocket is a steeper cut, not because he knows he has to, not because he is making a conscious adjustment. He is just lining up CTEL/A the same as he does for each shot. However, there is some visual illusion at play here, because as you lock onto CTEL/A for each shot, the actual physical alignment is slightly different. This is the "visual intelligence" of CTE. This isn't something you have to adjust to, this is what our eyes tell us as we look at these spheres on a table.
You can do a test yourself: setup shot #1, line up CTEL/A, then look where CCB alignment falls on the OB. Then move to the next shot and line up again, and compare again. You will see that the alignment changes ever so slightly as you go across the table. Why this visual phenomena happens, I don't know.
This is why you CAN'T figure out this system just by reading a forum or watching a video. You HAVE to take it to the table and put in some time to get the AHA moment. And it WILL happen, regardless of what some people say about everyone seeing things differently. I think we are all capable of doing it.
My first thoughts of CTE were exactly the same: skeptical, dismissive. But I had nothing to lose and gave it a shot. Watched the DVD, scratched head, shrugged, started going through the motions and the shots. After a couple of weeks it started happening. It clicked, it worked, it was pretty exciting to figure out. Since then it has always been getting better.
Your not understanding the post but that's ok
Sounds like you said if you wanna play by feel the best way is by pro1. Or you could be saying in order to learn pro1you need feel.
I don't think you understand what your trying to say.
mohrt,
Thank you very much. As I have said, I will give the 5 shot thing a look but probably not until after my in house individual league playoffs are finished. Your explanation clears up some of my 'misplaced' thoughts. Thanks again.
That said, the 'phenomena' has to be caused by something. I'd be interested if it would occur if the 5 sets of exactly the same straight parallel balls were on a 10' table & the 3 rails were curtained off & no pockets or rails were visible. I hazard it would not. The only difference the five has is the distance & angle from the 'intended' pocket. Without seeing the pocket there would be no visual information for the intelligence to process.
I believe it was 8 pack Anthony that did a video that sent the ball to the 'fake' pocket cushion area that Stan said the visual would not do. I'm not saying Anthony did it right or wrong, but I want to relay that to what I am going to say next.
If the 5 sets were set up with the 3 rails curtained off & one were to obtain the visual of CTE & ETA for each, would all the balls be pocketed in the same left side corner pocket? I'm not asking if one with CTE experience could pocket them there using the same visual as I believe it was Timothy suggested, but instead would they go there 'naturally' if shot by a 1 to 2 month CTEer.
Also why would one use the visual of cte & eta for shot #5? Would not ETB or ETC with the appropriate pivot or sweep be a more natural way to shoot that shot?
Something just seems amiss here. I'm certainly not saying nor suggesting that anyone & everyone is not being forthright. I'm just saying as you suggest. What would be the cause of such a 'phenomena'?
If what you & Stan say is true, & I have absolutely NO reason to think nor believe otherwise, I think I am starting to understand that at least some of what I thought to possibly be subjectivity may actually be more in the realm of visual phenomena or 'intelligence of human sight' to say it a bit different than Stan does, just for 'kicks'.
Anyway, thanks again for the help you have provide & if you have anything else, I'm all 'ears'.
Best to Ya',
Rick
Sounds like you said if you wanna play by feel the best way is by pro1. Or you could be saying in order to learn pro1you need feel.
I don't think you understand what your trying to say.
ok, we will leave it at "i don't understand what i am saying" ... I am good with that
ok, we will leave it at "i don't understand what i am saying" ... I am good with that
Finally something we agree on.
I am good with that too
Well Timothy since were such good friends, what's your take on the post made by English a few pages back. The 5 shots in the same pocket with the same line up.
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The system definitely hinges on visual perception with spheres on a 2x1 table, pockets at the 90s. Agreed you have to have enough information with the CB/OB placement for the visuals to work. When covering a section of table with a curtain, there is still enough information from the remaining rails. This is evident from the results of a laser beam guess not being as accurate as using the system to pocket balls. If you curtained off all of the rails, I could only assume there is not enough information for the perceptions to work. I have not tried it.
As for CTEL/A vs CTEL/B vs CTEL/C: If CTEL/A with inside pivot works, then CTEL/B with outside pivot will work equally as well, as these two visuals overlap. CTEL/C would always over cut with either pivot.
Well your using the ctel and the edge to A line but they are connecting at different points on the OB for all shots. But they are still cte and edge to A. pocket location that has been engraved on the brain and angle awareness/visual intelligence to the pocket you want to make the ball in will place you at the correct cte and edge to A shot line... I am keeping all this stuff as simple as can be for you to figure out
Your using A as the line up but connecting to different points. I got it ..instead of the gaps you guys are actually making the A.B.C fat so they connect ....now there's no gap.
Cool.:wink:
Tanks for kepping it at my level.
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The visuals look perfect from one physical location, and that physical location depends on the CB/OB position on the table. No need to worry yourself about that, perception does this work for you. Just line up the visual. The pocket location is only important in determining the visual/sweep you are going to use.
I'm just throwing this out there....
I would like to see some curtain shots on a table where the user isn't familiar with the layout so much. Either an English pool table or a snooker table if that could be done. English pool table has a 1/8 smaller CB, so that isn't doable unless someone has a 2" CB. Or if a CTE user has access to a snooker table and a curtain id like to see some shots. Nothing spectacular, blue off the spot, CB a couple of feet away in to a corner. If a person not familiar with playing on a snooker table can make curtain shots as I've mentioned, that should be proof enough that CTE does in fact connect a player to centre pocket on a 2x1 table.
I would like to see some curtain shots on a table where the user isn't familiar with the layout so much. Either an English pool table or a snooker table if that could be done. English pool table has a 1/8 smaller CB, so that isn't doable unless someone has a 2" CB. Or if a CTE user has access to a snooker table and a curtain id like to see some shots. Nothing spectacular, blue off the spot, CB a couple of feet away in to a corner. If a person not familiar with playing on a snooker table can make curtain shots as I've mentioned, that should be proof enough that CTE does in fact connect a player to centre pocket on a 2x1 table.
mohrt,
Thanks again.
Then do you know why Stan was going through those 5 shots explaining that all 5 could be made with the exact same visual & exact same pivot?
Why would one choose to select cte w/ eta for shot #5.
I think that video may have done more harm except for possibly the most advanced CTE player.
Well what's done is done & maybe it can be put into context for the masses.
Thanks again,
Rick
I don't see anything wrong shooting those shots with either CTEL/A or CTEL/B, it depends on ones comfort level with a specific shot. For me being a right hander, I prefer right sweeps whenever possible, as it is a more natural sweep. So in the case a shot calls for CTEL/A with left sweep OR CTEL/B with right sweep, I'll normally go with B.
I have used CTE on a 10ft snooker table and I was pocketing balls just fine. I was in no way used to a snooker table. I had to bear down a bit more as the pockets are less forgiving. I didn't try any curtains, it probably would have helped :grin:
Isn't there just four different locations the body needs to in since there's just A..B...C..1/8.
And each one of them has its own unique something. Since you made five shots with the same line up that had a different angle...and with your own words..they have there own unique perception , does one need to learn 20 defferenf unique perceptions to account for all the line ups.
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No. A/B/C are not physical locations, they are visual perceptions. How the CB/OB are positioned on the table results in a unique physical location. You don't need to worry about the physical location at all, perception gives that to you. Line up A/B/C with CTEL until it looks perfect, and you have your physical location.
You have to understand that lining up on a perception (ie. CTEL/A) results in a UNIQUE physical ball address for each and every CB/OB position, which there is an infinite number of them. You as a shooter only need to deal with lining up the visual, and the perception of the human eye does the work to give you the physical location. Now stop asking all these silly questions, and go try it on a table :grin-square: (kidding)
Plain common sense with a bit of intelligents used with this system can answer almost all questions, its not that hard to figure out. I learned this system lickity split when it came out off the first dvd.
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