Stance Fundamentals

mmasou said:
thanks again FranCrimi - worked on grip and stance some more, shot making improved by at least 50%.

I noticed Mika Immonen is standing with his back foot slightly inside the line of the shot, in this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwf3YFVRHu8
Click to expand...

Glad it's working out for you. About Mika, you may be right. He could be standing just inside the line. Judging by the distance between his hip and cue, he looks either right on the line or just barely inside. You'll find that top players, particularly 9 or 10 ball players, would rather favor standing inside the line with a slight lean towards the line rather than outside and crowding their arm swing. They like the feel of having room to swing the cue and so do I.
 
we're all alittle different

I am a snooker player and when I started playing big ball pool I was amazed how a guy with 2 bent legs could beat me. I think the secret is do what you can repeat everytime and the results should be predictable, there are many different strokes and stances out there. Have you ever seen Jim Furyk swing a golf club, he's a millionare. Probably the most important thing I was taught was "stand still, when your head moves everything moves".
 
BobN said:
I'm with RandyG on this one. Your stance has to be comfortable for YOU and it has to be such that you see a real vision of the shot or shot line. I've seen many that shoot with dominant eye over the cue, many that shoot with their nose or chin over the cue, some with their right ear over the cue... stance, I've seen straight on (snooker style), out of the book Mosconi stuff, both legs locked, one leg locked one bent, both legs bent... all of this in different professional or very high end players. So, there is no "right" stance and alignment, until you find the stance that's comfortable for you (and as Randy said, will not wear you out) and an alignment that lets you see the shot really well (and confidently) AND lets you find center of cue ball.

Bob
Click to expand...

Hi Bob,

I know I would find it really helpful if you identified which top players shoot with dominant eyes over the cues and which top players shoot with their noses over centered over their cues, and which players shoot with the varying stances you described.

I figured if it would be helpful to me then maybe it would help others reading this too.

Thanks, and happy new year!
Fran
 
what about players like me, who can adapt to almost any position, who experimented different stances and grips etc, and they can't seem to find the one for them?

this whole subject is very controversial. i would agree if you would say that stance and vision -head alignment comes naturally after playing lots and lots of hours.

but then I would also agree with Lee brett's comment, that playing lots is only enforcing the bad habits which you have inhibited.

so it's tricky and not as easy as it sounds

i was practicing many different types of grips stances and position of head and eyes and angle to the table , and i was "comfortable" you can say.

define "comforable". it's a very large word.

I think there's more to it than that
 
Fran, I just did a simple dominant-eye test (link: http://www.archeryweb.com/archery/eyedom.htm)

and I found it to be the right eye !, except sometimes I saw double vision when focusing through that triangle. Although at times I'm able to focus on the object with the left eye, ultimately the right eye dominates.

so i'll have to take back my words in previous posts that i'm left eye dominant :/ and now that might help understand why a slim majority of my long straight-in misses were to the right (hitting OB to the left). dr dave's video shows what happens when you are off your vision center... I thank dr. dave for allowing me to understand the vision center in his video.. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=680o8EChP_o)


my assumption about left eye being dominant all these years was wrong then! and that could explain my stupid battle, of trying to aim more on the left side (bringing head closer to the left eye) and consistantly missing on those long shots to the right !
i should have checked my eye dominance the proper way long time ago.
i assumed that my eye was dominnant only because my left eye has better vision. now i know vision differences in eyes have nothing to do with eye dominance in my case .. (maybe in general also, can anyone confirm?? )

it amazes me because when looking at any object hrough that small triangle, with left eye closed and right eye open (right eye has about -1.5 myopia), I see the object a bit fuzzy , but when both eyes are open the object is clear. (check link above for the triangle eye-dominance test)

so what it means is with both eyes open I see clear although right eye has poor vision and is dominant !

So the left eye helps with vision, right with focus or you can say "aiming".

how crazy is that!
 
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mmasou said:
what about players like me, who can adapt to almost any position, who experimented different stances and grips etc, and they can't seem to find the one for them?

this whole subject is very controversial. i would agree if you would say that stance and vision -head alignment comes naturally after playing lots and lots of hours.

but then I would also agree with Lee brett's comment, that playing lots is only enforcing the bad habits which you have inhibited.

so it's tricky and not as easy as it sounds

i was practicing many different types of grips stances and position of head and eyes and angle to the table , and i was "comfortable" you can say.

define "comforable". it's a very large word.

I think there's more to it than that
Click to expand...


I agree. Using simple logic.....


Comfortable can mean a lot of things, one of which is 'familiar.' Familiar is not necessarily right. It's just 'familiar.'

Comfortable also means the opposite of uncomfortable. In this sense, I think it can be deceiving as well. Adapting to something new is often uncomfortable. Yet, that new thing may be the best thing you ever did for your pool game.
 
mmasou said:
Fran, I just did a simple dominant-eye test (link: http://www.archeryweb.com/archery/eyedom.htm)

and I found it to be the right eye !, except sometimes I saw double vision when focusing through that triangle. Although at times I'm able to focus on the object with the left eye, ultimately the right eye dominates.

so i'll have to take back my words in previous posts that i'm left eye dominant :/ and now that might help understand why a slim majority of my long straight-in misses were to the right (hitting OB to the left). dr dave's video shows what happens when you are off your vision center... I thank dr. dave for allowing me to understand the vision center in his video.. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=680o8EChP_o)


my assumption about left eye being dominant all these years was wrong then! and that could explain my stupid battle, of trying to aim more on the left side (bringing head closer to the left eye) and consistantly missing on those long shots to the right !
i should have checked my eye dominance the proper way long time ago.
i assumed that my eye was dominnant only because my left eye has better vision. now i know vision differences in eyes have nothing to do with eye dominance in my case .. (maybe in general also, can anyone confirm?? )

it amazes me because when looking at any object hrough that small triangle, with left eye closed and right eye open (right eye has about -1.5 myopia), I see the object a bit fuzzy , but when both eyes are open the object is clear. (check link above for the triangle eye-dominance test)

so what it means is with both eyes open I see clear although right eye has poor vision and is dominant !

So the left eye helps with vision, right with focus or you can say "aiming".

how crazy is that!
Click to expand...

You're not alone. That's a common misconception. Eye dominance is not about which eye sees clearer.

Glad you figured it out.
 
Seems to me like you're obsessing over the "dominant eye" thing. It's not that big of a deal. Line the cue up where you perceive a straight line (under your dominant eye, if that's it...but many don't "see" it there), and then have an accurate enough stroke to deliver the cue where your perception is. Just my opinion...but I think you're changing too many things, and not concentrating on anything long enough to make it permanent. Stance, grip, alignment, and timing are all individual. There is no 'one size fits all' for anybody, about any of these things. BTW, usually pro players are not instructors, and make poor teachers. There are exceptions, of course. Tony Robles comes immediately to mind, as well as Max.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
 
Thanks Scott.

the changes I'm making are improving my game a lot though. and you are right, at one point it's time to stop tweaking around.

you mentioned grip: i was putting pressure with my first 2 fingers unknowingly during follow through. now i got it figured out
stance and alignment: i recently learned how crucial finding line of aim was, and it helped a lot. still, shots were missed. that is an aiming problem. stance and alignment and entering the shot cannot be successfull unless you enter proper line of vision.

yes i'm over-analyzing everything, but it helped me change those bad habits and now i know that in general my head is about an inch too far too the right, because i always thought I was aiming more with my left eye, which has better vision.

sometimes breaking things down and looking back at them, can really improve your game, i find.
 
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A good stance is key to body positioning for certain shots. I do not think someone with a bad stance can consistently hit the ball right. Stance fundamentals should not be broken bc we have the same limbs that do the same things to an object that stays constant---cue.

You can play this game any way you want, but from my experience, most guys that play really good have the same stance whatever shape they are.
 
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