stance- good places to point feet?

[evergruven]

from playing other sports, I learned the value/importance of having good footwork
this seems to apply to pool as well, tho I'm curious to what extent
and I'm wondering what the benefits/consequences are of pointing feet in certain directions

a little while ago, I started positioning my back foot more perpedicularly/rotating it outward
I started doing that because I was afraid my cue was running into my hip during stroke
or that it was close enough to worry about. so, I moved the foot out, and it generally works
tho I admit I still have to consciously move it out, and on some shots it doesn't feel great

my front foot tends to live at 1:30 or so, but I'm interested in straightening it out, 12:30?
just to try..it kind of feels good tho. and I know this stuff is a bit individualized, but-
are there any "rules" to foot positioning? anything specific worth paying attention to?

 

[FranCrimi]

Pointing the back foot slightly outward to turn your hip a bit is normal. However, I'd recommend pointing the front foot either straight or slightly away from the cue. This stabilizes you at the table. Pointing both feet in the same direction can cause you to lean forward a bit in your stance. When you're down on the shot, leaning slightly back and towards the shot line is optimal.

 

[WobblyStroke]

The only 'rule' to foot position I can think of is:
Once you settle on a technique--wherever your feet are--that position must repeat stroke to stroke.

Other than that, you are right, it is based on the individual, their preferences and comfort level, and the type of stroke they use. Snooker players predominantly have the back foot on the shot line. Some bigger guys with wide stances like Niels Feijen have a back foot that is perpendicular and front foot parallel to the shot line. Most players will be somewhere in between for their back foot and a little flared in the front foot, but to what degree is up to the individual. I think a 90degree angle of the feet like Niels' stance is excellent for stability. Whether you go perpendicular back and parallel front like Feijen or turn the two together and get an angled back foot and flared out front foot doesn't affect the level of stability. I think most people are very close to this.

But whatever you choose to do with your feet...keep it consistent stroke to stroke and be particular about how you get into your stance as this sets up the rest of your mechanics. Get the feet wrong or let them float around on you and consistency goes out the window bc by definition, if you change the base, something else has to compensate to keep the top as you want it. So ye, only the one rule imo.

 

[garczar]

Simple: back foot on the shot line and front foot relatively parallel to the shot line.

 

[BilliardsAbout]

For right-handers who start their PSR with their navel on the lines of centers between the OB and CB, the first stance move with the right foot can help bring the vision center and right hand on line--which helps determine the angle the foot takes to the shot line.

Right foot step, left foot step, come down to the full stance.

And other than settling the head and hand/arm or clearing a hip or torso off the line, the angle is meant for stable balance.

 

[Bob Jewett]

... a little while ago, I started positioning my back foot more perpedicularly/rotating it outward
I started doing that because I was afraid ...

Have you considered an in-person lesson from a qualified instructor to have your fundamentals checked?

 

[evergruven]

But whatever you choose to do with your feet...keep it consistent stroke to stroke and be particular about how you get into your stance as this sets up the rest of your mechanics. Get the feet wrong or let them float around on you and consistency goes out the window bc by definition, if you change the base, something else has to compensate to keep the top as you want it. So ye, only the one rule imo.

this tracks w me, thanks. striving for consistency, in general, is on my list- will add this.

Have you considered an in-person lesson from a qualified instructor to have your fundamentals checked?

sure I have. I've mined the pbia site and reached out to a number of instructors over time, but they've either moved away, are busy, or are missing in action
I just looked and am satisfied with the list in washington state. is there another resource you'd recommend? there is a local guy I might reach out to in the spring.

 

[Bob Jewett]

... I just looked and am satisfied with the list in washington state. is there another resource you'd recommend? there is a local guy I might reach out to in the spring.

If you happen to travel for other reasons, you might try instructors near your destination. I often have students who are just visiting the area.

Some instructors do on-line lessons but I think for fundamentals in-person will be a lot more effective. Zoom is something you could try, though.

 

[evergruven]

If you happen to travel for other reasons, you might try instructors near your destination. I often have students who are just visiting the area.

Some instructors do on-line lessons but I think for fundamentals in-person will be a lot more effective. Zoom is something you could try, though.

thanks bob. agree about in-person, but we'll see how it goes. I might get out a bit next year.

 

[BRKNRUN]

Kind of an old thread but perhaps a slightly different approach....Although not an instructor (of pool) I do have an instructors background (in Golf) and some have mentioned to me that I probably should be a instructor.

Been away from pool for a few years....but recently getting back at it with some focus and have been working on all these things that are important on the "consistency" scale........I am a believer that Grip/Stance/Posture/Alignment are really the only things we can control in the pool stroke....The stroke itself is a "result" of those 4 things...If you want to change your stroke.......for it to be "natural" it must be done by changing one of those 4 things.

First off....What Bob mentions is something to make first priority....Seek out an instructor that can work with you... Working with someone is a much faster learning curve than trying to figure it all out for yourself....And may even be engraining potential bad habits.

The good news is I can tell you how to break a bad habit......The answer is....Start a "new" habit

IMO....the most important part of the stance is consistency and the positioning of the back foot.....The front foot is not a fixed position on all shots....It can't be....As you reach over the table it squares your body and effectively changes your front foot positioning....so again IMO....the back foot should really be the "focus" foot.

I also believe the way you take your grip affects the way you get into your stance.....and here is how it ties together.....Standing upright naturally feet pointed forward....let your grip hand hang down....nice and relaxed...just let it hang....this is "neutral" position for your arm, wrist and hand........now if you (without twisting your wrist) make a relaxed fist or hooked fingers to hold the cue...you will notice that it is not going directly forward (in the same direction as your feet) it is actually going across your body.....For me If I were to do this the cue would run right over just the toes of my foot...not the whole foot...just the toes of what would be my "back foot"....If you notice now (while still standing) if you were to take some practice strokes....the cue again is not naturally going straight forward by your side...It is actually going more across your body....(for me over my left toes....aka back foot)

Much easier for me to show someone in person.....but if you were to do the above standing exercise....this would be your natural or neutral stroke plane......This is what I believe...even if you practice a million times to force it in a different direction your stroke will return to "under pressure"..... ..For me the cue ends up directly over my toes of what would be my back foot.....so during "practice" I am constantly "measuring" my set up so that with the cue is first laying on the shot line tip right up to the CB....My back foot while standing is turned out and just my toes are under the cue...(on the shot line).....I then step/bend down into the shot........For someone else the natural neutral position may be the middle of their foot or maybe just in front of the toes....This (I believe) would be determined by that persons body type doing the above standing exercise..

For normal shots where your body is off the table....most will say to point your front foot parallel to the shot line....This has consistency built into it which is a great thing.......but for my personal body type it did not agree with my hips and lower back....I found a "measured" way to turn my foot in slightly (but still pointed more forward than the back foot).......and save my back and hip....was to point the toe of my front foot at (for me I am left handed) at the right side of the CB.....This allows me to be comfortable and repetitive and standard shots....and more important is naturally where my front foot "wants" to go

"Staying Grounded"......I believe this is another big part of the stance....and may be the hardest part of the stance and can lead to the dreaded jump up.....Everyone knows in athletics you want to be on the "Balls" of your feet for stability, reaction, etc....One thing (in pool) that I think can help...This may be taught somewhere.... but I never really hear about this is to "feel your heels".....You want to be on the balls of your feet....but (again in practice) you want to feel your heels touching the ground....You are not transferring your full weight to your heels.....you just want to feel them staying grounded as part of your stance,

 

[Poolmanis]

from playing other sports, I learned the value/importance of having good footwork
this seems to apply to pool as well, tho I'm curious to what extent
and I'm wondering what the benefits/consequences are of pointing feet in certain directions

a little while ago, I started positioning my back foot more perpedicularly/rotating it outward
I started doing that because I was afraid my cue was running into my hip during stroke
or that it was close enough to worry about. so, I moved the foot out, and it generally works
tho I admit I still have to consciously move it out, and on some shots it doesn't feel great

my front foot tends to live at 1:30 or so, but I'm interested in straightening it out, 12:30?
just to try..it kind of feels good tho. and I know this stuff is a bit individualized, but-
are there any "rules" to foot positioning? anything specific worth paying attention to?

I think if your stroke is coming close to hip, You need to change position of feet. I myself did have similar problem and I noticed subconscious can make a twist to stroke because it is making sure you won´t hit your hip.

 

[evergruven]

I think if your stroke is coming close to hip, You need to change position of feet. I myself did have similar problem and I noticed subconscious can make a twist to stroke because it is making sure you won´t hit your hip.

totally agree, after I moved my feet I stopped worrying about the cue hitting my hip..now I can worry about other problems

 

[FranCrimi]

Kind of an old thread but perhaps a slightly different approach....Although not an instructor (of pool) I do have an instructors background (in Golf) and some have mentioned to me that I probably should be a instructor.

Been away from pool for a few years....but recently getting back at it with some focus and have been working on all these things that are important on the "consistency" scale........I am a believer that Grip/Stance/Posture/Alignment are really the only things we can control in the pool stroke....The stroke itself is a "result" of those 4 things...If you want to change your stroke.......for it to be "natural" it must be done by changing one of those 4 things.

First off....What Bob mentions is something to make first priority....Seek out an instructor that can work with you... Working with someone is a much faster learning curve than trying to figure it all out for yourself....And may even be engraining potential bad habits.

The good news is I can tell you how to break a bad habit......The answer is....Start a "new" habit

IMO....the most important part of the stance is consistency and the positioning of the back foot.....The front foot is not a fixed position on all shots....It can't be....As you reach over the table it squares your body and effectively changes your front foot positioning....so again IMO....the back foot should really be the "focus" foot.

I also believe the way you take your grip affects the way you get into your stance.....and here is how it ties together.....Standing upright naturally feet pointed forward....let your grip hand hang down....nice and relaxed...just let it hang....this is "neutral" position for your arm, wrist and hand........now if you (without twisting your wrist) make a relaxed fist or hooked fingers to hold the cue...you will notice that it is not going directly forward (in the same direction as your feet) it is actually going across your body.....For me If I were to do this the cue would run right over just the toes of my foot...not the whole foot...just the toes of what would be my "back foot"....If you notice now (while still standing) if you were to take some practice strokes....the cue again is not naturally going straight forward by your side...It is actually going more across your body....(for me over my left toes....aka back foot)

Much easier for me to show someone in person.....but if you were to do the above standing exercise....this would be your natural or neutral stroke plane......This is what I believe...even if you practice a million times to force it in a different direction your stroke will return to "under pressure"..... ..For me the cue ends up directly over my toes of what would be my back foot.....so during "practice" I am constantly "measuring" my set up so that with the cue is first laying on the shot line tip right up to the CB....My back foot while standing is turned out and just my toes are under the cue...(on the shot line).....I then step/bend down into the shot........For someone else the natural neutral position may be the middle of their foot or maybe just in front of the toes....This (I believe) would be determined by that persons body type doing the above standing exercise..

For normal shots where your body is off the table....most will say to point your front foot parallel to the shot line....This has consistency built into it which is a great thing.......but for my personal body type it did not agree with my hips and lower back....I found a "measured" way to turn my foot in slightly (but still pointed more forward than the back foot).......and save my back and hip....was to point the toe of my front foot at (for me I am left handed) at the right side of the CB.....This allows me to be comfortable and repetitive and standard shots....and more important is naturally where my front foot "wants" to go

"Staying Grounded"......I believe this is another big part of the stance....and may be the hardest part of the stance and can lead to the dreaded jump up.....Everyone knows in athletics you want to be on the "Balls" of your feet for stability, reaction, etc....One thing (in pool) that I think can help...This may be taught somewhere.... but I never really hear about this is to "feel your heels".....You want to be on the balls of your feet....but (again in practice) you want to feel your heels touching the ground....You are not transferring your full weight to your heels.....you just want to feel them staying grounded as part of your stance,

As we all know, pool is different from many other athletic stances because the player is bent over in his or her stance. So when you talk about being grounded --- I assume you mean balanced --- it has a different meaning than with an upright standing athlete. You have to counter the weight leaning forward with a lean back and towards the shot line. That will put you in balance. So, you should feel a little more weight on your back heel. That can only be achieved with proper positioning of the feet.

Toe pointing will help position your hips properly as well as aid in balance. I prefer each foot to be pointed slightly outward --- away from the body, which helps keep the player's hips in a stable position and the body in balance.

As for the grip and the cue swinging naturally across your body in your hand ---Remember, what you are describing with that is a player standing upright. Once a player sets their alignment properly and puts themself in proper balance in his shooting stance, it's no longer an issue.