Standardized Rules question

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BillyKoda

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Which 8-Ball tournament rules are the most recognized when it comes to local pool rooms? I'm not talking about league rules or pro rules, I'm talking about the most common rules used in friendly neighborhood tournaments? Since I inherited the TD position at my local establishment I'm having a terrible time getting rid of some idiotic rules they play by, most of them want the rules changed but none of them know what they want the rules to be!! It's frustrating.

Last year we played "call shot", all kisses had to be explained, next year I want to go to "call pocket", call your ball and pocket only. I do not want "ball in hand" on fouls and I would like to incorporate safeties in the game. Believe it or not these guys have something called "honest effort" but there is no penalty if this rule is not followed. I am willing to look at any and all sets of rules that are "call pocket" in nature.

Any help would be most appreciated,

BK
 
I'd play strict BCA rules, as published. That way you have the rules spelled-out, which makes it easier to settle any disputes. While transitioning to these rules you can provide a written copy of the rules to all tournament participants, prior to the start, so no one can complain they didn't know. Don't even TRY to incorporate "local" rules - go by the book, life will be much easier. Just my $.02 worth.

Adios,

Pizza Bob
 
BillyKoda said:
Which 8-Ball tournament rules are the most recognized when it comes to local pool rooms? I'm not talking about league rules or pro rules, I'm talking about the most common rules used in friendly neighborhood tournaments? Since I inherited the TD position at my local establishment I'm having a terrible time getting rid of some idiotic rules they play by, most of them want the rules changed but none of them know what they want the rules to be!! It's frustrating.

Last year we played "call shot", all kisses had to be explained, next year I want to go to "call pocket", call your ball and pocket only. I do not want "ball in hand" on fouls and I would like to incorporate safeties in the game. Believe it or not these guys have something called "honest effort" but there is no penalty if this rule is not followed. I am willing to look at any and all sets of rules that are "call pocket" in nature.

Any help would be most appreciated,

BK
Click to expand...

BCA rules are call pocket, and widely (although not universally) acknowledged as the best set of rules for competitive 8-ball.

Why don't you want ball in hand on fouls?

-Andrew
 
In my opinion, you almost have to use BCA rules. Meaning, you HAVE to get ball-in-hand on fouls.

Here's why (a little scenario for you...which will eventually come up):

If I'm playing one of your players who lives by your local rules (no ball in hand, honest-try).... here's what he's up against....

The moment I don't think I can get out, I'm going to slow-roll the CB and touch it against an impeding ball (my ball or otherwise... essentially, a push-out). That way, unless he's at least Efren-speed, he's not making a ball or getting out either. The result would be your player crying like a baby with his pacifier taken away, screaming how I didn't give an honest try....and I explain how I honestly-tried-to-make-sure-he-didn't-have-sh*t. Ultimately, other than cry and start a fist fight, your player has no recourse, blows his top, and either quits the tournament because he's enraged or continues his move in this push-out battle that prolongs the game by a mile.

In conclusion, the BCA setup those rules for a reason. Best to follow them.
 
From the lowest level house tournaments with 6 players to league to ESPN, you gotta go with BCA or something very close.

Definitely embrace ball in hand. Anything else is... well, kinda scrubby. No offense! It's important that all fouls get punished, and without BIH they won't be. In fact, without BIH a good player can abuse the rules and turn fouling to his advantage.

Honest effort is also silly (which it sounds like you already understand) You don't want people to be in a position where calling fouls is a judgment call based on opinions instead of fact... because then it's just sort of a popularity contest. You also don't want anyone to have to call someone a liar if they say "I was making an honest effort" and it looks like he wasn't. There are lots of ways to make rules black-and-white so you either fouled or you didn't, and nobody has to make a guess about what you're 'trying' to do. Those ways are detailed in the BCA rule books.

There's a sorta funny example of what happens when 'honest effort' gets out of hand - in the 2005 DCC 10-ball ring game, someone (I think it was JS) tried a bank and missed and left the next guy no shot, and efren thought he'd done it on purpose (I don't think it was intentional, just a miss). Anyway nobody tried to call him on it. So efren does something similar but it's pretty clearly intentional and then they have to sit and debate to figure out who's the bad guy who has to make efren shoot again.
 
Ball in the Kitchen rules

The other possibility besides full BCA ball in hand rules would be what is known as Ball and pocket 3 option rules.
On fouls the incoming player can either play the ball from where it lies, take ball in hand in the kitchen and shoot out, or on rare occasion require the fouling player to shoot again.
When shooting you must make a good hit on your ball and something must hit a rail after contact or it's a foul. No chicken-chit rollup behind the ball safetys.
You only need to call a ball and pocket no details of how.
You get what you make on the break.
There is a 3 foul rule.
If you take ball in the kitchen and your only ball to shoot is also in the kitchen you can shoot out and bank at it. Or choose to have the closest ball to the kitchen line spotted, or the 8 if your on it.
 
Below are the BCA sections that cover head-string vs. BIH. As I am reading these it is my understanding the BCA rules are "Ball in hand, behind the head-string" Am I correct?

I grew up playing pool and never experienced BIH in 8-Ball, BIH was in 9-Ball. You can't teach an old dog new tricks!

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3.10 CUE BALL IN HAND BEHIND THE HEAD STRING
This situation applies in specific games whereby the opening break is administered or a player’s scratching is penalized by the incoming player having cue ball in hand behind the head string. The incoming player may place the cue ball anywhere behind the head string. The shooting player may shoot at any object ball as long as the base of the object ball is on or below the head string. He may not shoot at any ball, the base of which is above the head string, unless he first shoots the cue ball below the head string and then by hitting a rail causes the cue ball to come back above the head string and hit the object ball. The base of the ball (the point of the ball touching the table) determines whether it is above or below the head string. If the incoming player inadvertently places the cue ball on or below the head string, the referee or the op-posing player must inform the shooting player of improper positioning of the cue ball before the shot is made. If the opposing player does not so inform the shooting player before the shot is made, the shot is considered legal. If the shooting player is informed of improper positioning, he must then reposition the cue ball. If a player positions the cue ball completely and obviously outside the kitchen and shoots the cue ball, it is a foul. (Refer to rule 2.21) When the cue ball is in hand behind the head string, it remains in hand (not in play) until the player strikes the cue ball with his cue tip. The cue ball may be adjusted by the player’s hand, cue, etc., so long as it remains in hand. Once the cue ball is in play per the above, it may not be impeded in any way by the player; to do so is to commit a foul. Additionally, if the shot fails to contact a legal object ball or fails to drive the cue ball over the head string, the shot is a foul and the opposing player has ball in hand according to the specific game rules.

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3.40 CUE BALL IN HAND FOUL
During cue ball in hand placement, the player may use his hand or any part of his cue (including the tip) to position the cue ball. When placing the cue ball in position, any forward stroke motion of the cue stick contacting the cue ball will be considered a foul if not a legal shot.

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Here is the link to the source
 
if a foul occures on the break shot, then the shot immidiatly following is cue ball in kitchen, all other instances, its BIH. also they are technically not BCA rules. technically they are WPA rules. as BCA is WPA sanctioned along with ACS and acouple other leugues. they all use the same rule sets.
 
If it would help to have rule books to hand out I've got several dozen left over from my ACS / BCA league that I'd be glad to send you. Just PM me your address and I'll shoot them out to you.

BTW no matter how clear you make everything, you'll still be settling disputes but at least everyone will have an even starting point. At least, those that can read. :rolleyes:

Brian in VA
 
Hey again Koda. The section you're linking to is their "general" section that explains stuff that applies to all games. Their page on 8-ball is here:
http://www.bca-pool.com/play/tournaments/rules/rls_8bl.shtml
part 4.14 explains the ball in hand rules.

The paragraph you copied from is just their way of explaining how to handle 'behind the line' situations when they come up, in 8 ball that only happens when you scratch on the break (the reasoning is that you don't punish someone quite as hard for scratching on the break because they can't always predict it or prevent it. But other scratches you can see coming, so they're punished with full BIH anywhere on the table).

Even though you're not used to it, give it a chance. It's a lot more fair :)
 
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