Standardized tournament payouts?

Marie's husband

Cue It Up Promotions
Silver Member
With all the talk about tournaments and where the entry money goes or green fees goes or added money goes, it got me looking around to several different sights that keeps historical records about tournaments just trying to understand more about process of actually collecting and disbursing the funds.

What I have found is that the collection process is pretty much the same for most all of the tours, you can pay to enter up until the tournament starts. Now for sanctioned leagues, its prepaid and most of the tournaments they have are pretty big so that shows me that the prepay can work if its enforced. Not saying thats why they get so many players, but you dont have people not playing because its prepay.

As for the Disbursing of the funds, just dont understand how some tournaments pay out 40% of field, some 30%, some 25%. Then after that is determined, I dont understand how the percentage to place is determined because some of the tournaments looks like they throw darts at a dartboard to decide how to split up the cash.

So my question to the AZB community, does anybody actually have or seen a standardized payout percentage breakdown for payouts for larger tournaments that pay out 32, 48, 64, 96 places? Now maybe I am wrong on thinking this and I am sure somebody will correct me, but it just makes sense from a players perspective and I would think from a promotors/tour/league to have a "standardized" payout system because then both sides know what is going to happen to the money.

Oh yeah, one other thing, the amount of money in the prize fund should not matter to decide the amount of players paid, The only thing that should decide that is the amount of players enter and use a scale percentage which rounds down or up to the closest paying position. For example: if you had 200 players, 30% would be 60' round up to 64 since 60 is closer to 64 than 48, now if you had 180, then you would round down since 54 is closer to 48 than 64.


Stayed up too late and you know what happens, you just start thinking. I guess thinking about this is somewhat productive. At least more productive than thinking "what if I won the lottery". Thanks for reading.
 

calcuttaman

Pool Player
Silver Member
...does anybody actually have or seen a standardized payout percentage breakdown for payouts for larger tournaments that pay out 32, 48, 64, 96 places?
This is another can of worms topic just like aiming systems, low deflection shafts, etc. I'm thinking everyone has there own idea on what type of payouts should be.

Some areas to look at...

Top heavy payouts
Spread the payouts out equally
What % of the field should get paid.

I'm thinking that *most* people think that paying 25% of the field is fair.

This can get a bit tricky though. If you have a 64 person field, its easy to figure out that 25% is 16 spots. But what happens when you have a 80 person field? You can't pay 25% of the field. You've either have to pay 16 spots which is 20%, or 24 spots which is 30% of the field.

This is where you will typically always find "Payout controversy."
 

Marie's husband

Cue It Up Promotions
Silver Member
This is another can of worms topic just like aiming systems, low deflection shafts, etc. I'm thinking everyone has there own idea on what type of payouts should be.

Some areas to look at...

Top heavy payouts
Spread the payouts out equally
What % of the field should get paid.

I'm thinking that *most* people think that paying 25% of the field is fair.

This can get a bit tricky though. If you have a 64 person field, its easy to figure out that 25% is 16 spots. But what happens when you have a 80 person field? You can't pay 25% of the field. You've either have to pay 16 spots which is 20%, or 24 spots which is 30% of the field.

This is where you will typically always find "Payout controversy."

Calcutta,

I did not want to start "this is another one of those threads", and I was a little bit on the tired side when I wrote the initial thread so I apologize if I confused you.

I was and am just looking for a chart/website or book that actually gives standardized breakdown percentages. It doesnt have to be from a pool tournament system, it could be from Dart, bowling, horseshoes, etc, I just wanted to see if anyone actually new of one and could point me in the right direction because I cant seem to find one.

Thank You
Marie's husband
 

calcuttaman

Pool Player
Silver Member
I was and am just looking for a chart/website or book that actually gives standardized breakdown percentages. It doesnt have to be from a pool tournament system, it could be from Dart, bowling, horseshoes, etc, I just wanted to see if anyone actually new of one and could point me in the right direction because I cant seem to find one.
I've done some looking over the years and have never been able to find one. I know a few TD's that have there own charts made up but I've never seen one I've liked.

I think the lack of responses points to the fact that there just isn't such an animal.
 

Benward452

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I would like to give this a bump and see if anyone has anymore to say on this subject, because I am curious.

I think the top 25% should always be paid. I also do not feel the winner should get anything less than 35-40% of the winnings.

Just my opinion.

Hopefully we will hear more,
Ben
 

Wags

2 pocket-one pocket table
Silver Member
Decisions on payouts

I have never done a pro event but I have been involved with some $25,000 purses for amateur events. This is my take on it.

For the industry as a whole there seems to be only one general standard, pay 25% of the field. For the pros, 1st is usually double what 2nd is and 2nd is usually double what 3rd is. Beyond that, it is usually up to the whim of the promoter/TD. There is no set formula. Players can only go by what the promoter has done at previous events. Even that changes sometimes.

Here is a list of some of the decisions the promoter/TD has to make.

What percent of the field to pay?

If an odd number is entered, do you round up or down?

Should the last place finishers just get their entry back or should they get more?

What do they want 1st place to be for the event?

What should the percentage difference be between 1st & 2nd?

How far should that difference be carried out? Through 3rd place? 4th Place?

Should the payouts be rounded to the $1000? $500? $100? etc.


There are many lines of thoughts to answer those questions. I, also, have mine after 40 years of playing and promoting tournaments. I wish there was an industry standard (as long as it was mine :grin:) as many payout structures actually injure the game/tournament. The use of “savers”, “splits” and other types of player agreements can sometimes lead to spectators being deprived of the “best” game.
 

CocoboloCowboy

Cowboys are my hero's
Silver Member
I think Pool Tournaments need to be advertised so potential participant understands the what the added money is and if it string are to be attached to added money they are spell out in black and while. Like full field = 32, 64, or how many players.

If there is a REGISTRATION FEE, or Part of the Entry Fee is to be held back for say a Green Fee, that should also be disclosed in Black & White.

What the Rules will the Tournament be play under, like BCAPL Rules or?

Think if everything is spelled out in Black & White on the Advertising, and or Entry Form/Application there will be no last minute surprises.
 

Tom In Cincy

AKA SactownTom
Silver Member
I have been using this scale for almost 8 years, no complaints yet...



Well looking at the payout scale from D&D, how fair do you guys think that is?

Do you think it could/should be used as a base for a standard payment of prize money?

What do you feel needs changed or remodeled?

Just constructive criticism, not attacks.

Ben
 

Scott Lee

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Benward452...IMO this is absurd, with the exception of possibly a little local $5-$10 tournament. It's one of the problems with lopsided, top-heavy payouts...which a large number of players are not in favor of. In running small tournaments (16 players), I paid 25%, and paid out 40/30/20/10. Larger events have to scale back these numbers.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

I also do not feel the winner should get anything less than 35-40% of the winnings.

Just my opinion.

Ben
 

Marie's husband

Cue It Up Promotions
Silver Member
Well looking at the payout scale from D&D, how fair do you guys think that is?

Do you think it could/should be used as a base for a standard payment of prize money?

What do you feel needs changed or remodeled?

Just constructive criticism, not attacks.

Ben

Thank You Tom in Cincy for showing the scale that you use. I knew someone had to have a standard that they used and from the sounds of it, it has been used for the past 8 years without complaints. Also, D and D looks like a nice place with great equipment, hope everything works out for you all.


Ben,

Looking at the chart and comparing places pd to number of playes, it uses a %25 rule that also uses a rule, if the number is closer to the next higher paying position then it rounds up to that position.

I like this 25% rule for figuring out how many payouts there should be within a tournament. Now if you use a 33% rule instead of 25, it increases the places paid to a point where there is going to be over 1/3rd of the field being paid and sometimes if the field is very large, like a large regional event or national event, it causes the places paid to be over 40% of the entries.

As far as the actual % payout for each position, seems pretty fair to me, not top heavy from how I look at it and pretty evenly distributed without an overly huge split between any of them.


Seems pretty good to me, but thats my opinion. One other opinion is that it must be nice for the players in that area because when they sign up for a tournament, they know exaclty how it is going to be figured out no matter what the prize fund is.

Thanks again Tom for answering my question.
 
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