Stats -- 2018 Team USA vs. Team England 9-Ball, November 2018

[AtLarge]

Here are some break results for the Team USA vs. Team England 9-Ball event played Nov. 28, 2018 at Spots & Stripes in London, England. This event, held as preparation for Team USA's playing in the Mosconi Cup next week, was 9-Ball racing to 7 matches, with each match being a race to 5 games. The format was 6 doubles matches and up to 7 singles matches (all were needed). Team USA won 7-6. Free streaming was provided on the Mosconi Cup Facebook page.

The players for Team USA were Shane Van Boening, Corey Deuel, Skyler Woodward, Billy Thorpe, and Tyler Styer. The players for Team England were Darren Appleton, Karl Boyes, Mark Gray, Chris Melling, and Imran Majid.

The conditions for this event included the following:
- Rasson Victory 9-foot table with blue Simonis cloth;
- Aramith Tournament balls with the measles cue ball;
- referee racks using a triangle rack with the 1-ball on the foot spot;
- alternate breaks from anywhere behind the head string;
- no illegal break rule;
- 30-sec. shot clock (60 sec. after the break), with one 30-sec. extension per side per game;
- foul on all balls;
- jump cues allowed;
- lag for the break.

The 13 matches were as follows, in the order they were played. Match winners are bolded; event scores after each match are in brackets.

1. Doubles -- Van Boening/Deuel ... 4-5 ... Melling/Gray [0-1]
2. Singles -- Styer... 5-0 ... Majid [1-1]
3. Doubles -- Thorpe/Woodward ... 5-2 ... Appleton/Boyes [2-1]
4. Singles -- Thorpe ... 1-5 ... Melling [2-2]
5. Doubles -- Deuel/Woodward ... 4-5 ... Melling/Majid [2-3]
6. Singles -- Van Boening ... 5-3 ... Appleton [3-3]
7. Doubles -- Thorpe/Styer ... 4-5 ... Gray/Boyes [3-4]
.......... about a half-hour break ..........
8. Singles -- Deuel ... 4-5 ... Gray [3-5]
9. Doubles -- Van Boening/Thorpe ... 3-5 ... Appleton/Melling [3-6]
10. Doubles -- Woodward/Styer ... 5-3 ... Gray/Majid [4-6]
11. Singles -- Woodward ... 5-3 ... Boyes [5-6]
12. Singles -- Van Boening ... 5-2 ... Melling [6-6]
13. Singles -- Woodward ... 5-3 ... Gray [7-6]

The event consisted of 101 games. Because of streaming problems during Match #5, the stats in this post exclude 5 games from that match and are, therefore, for 96 games.

The successful-break rates (made at least one ball and did not foul) were 52% for Team USA (25 of 48) and 46% (22 of 48) for Team England.

Team USA won the game on 56% (27 of 48) of their own breaks, whereas Team England won on 46% (22 of 48) of their breaks. Some details:

Team USA broke 48 times, with the following results:
• Made at least one ball (and did not foul) and won the game -- 19 (40%)
• Made at least one ball (and did not foul) and lost the game -- 6 (13%)
• Broke dry or fouled but won the game -- 8 (17%)
• Broke dry or fouled and lost the game -- 15 (31%)

Team England broke 48 times, with the following results:
• Made at least one ball (and did not foul) and won the game -- 17 (35%)
• Made at least one ball (and did not foul) and lost the game -- 5 (10%)
• Broke dry or fouled but won the game -- 5 (10%)
• Broke dry or fouled and lost the game -- 21 (44%)

For the two teams combined, the breaker made at least one ball (and did not foul) 49% (47 of 96) of the time; the breaking side won 51% (49 of 96) of the games; and the breaking side won 77% (36 of 47) of the games in which the breaker made at least one ball on the break and did not foul.

Break-and-run on all breaks:
• Team USA -- 9 out of 48 (19%)
• Team England -- 7 out of 48 (15%)
• Total -- 16 out of 96 (17%)

Break-and-run on successful breaks:
• Team USA -- 9 out of 25 (36%)
• Team England -- 7 out of 22 (32%)
• Total -- 16 out of 47 (34%)

 

[AtLarge]

Here are some break stats for each player in the 2018 Team USA vs. Team England event. Excludes 5 games from Match #5 (see post #1). [Caveat: small numbers.]


Successful breaks (made at least one ball and did not foul):

• Van Boening -- 6 of 12 (50%)
  Deuel -- 3 of 8 (38%)
  Woodward -- 8 of 13 (62%)
  Thorpe -- 5 of 8 (63%)
  Styer -- 3 of 7 (43%)
  Team USA Total -- 25 of 48 (52%)
  
  Appleton -- 3 of 8 (38%)
  Boyes -- 5 of 9 (56%)
  Gray -- 8 of 14 (57%)
  Melling -- 5 of 12 (42%)
  Majid -- 1 of 5 (20%)
  Team England Total -- 22 of 48 (46%)
  
  USA + England Total -- 47 of 96 (49%)

Breaker's side won the game:

• Van Boening -- 5 of 12 (42%)
  Deuel -- 5 of 8 (63%)
  Woodward -- 8 of 13 (62%)
  Thorpe -- 3 of 8 (38%)
  Styer -- 6 of 7 (86%)
  Team USA Total -- 27 of 48 (56%)
  
  Appleton -- 4 of 8 (50%)
  Boyes -- 4 of 9 (44%)
  Gray -- 7 of 14 (50%)
  Melling -- 5 of 12 (42%)
  Majid -- 2 of 5 (40%)
  Team England Total -- 22 of 48 (46%)
  
  USA + England Total -- 49 of 96 (51%)

Break-and-run games, on all breaks:

• Van Boening -- 2 of 12 (17%)
  Deuel -- 2 of 8 (25%)
  Woodward -- 4 of 13 (31%)
  Thorpe -- 0 of 8 (0%)
  Styer -- 1 of 7 (14%)
  Team USA Total -- 9 of 48 (19%)
  
  Appleton -- 1 of 8 (13%)
  Boyes -- 1 of 9 (11%)
  Gray -- 1 of 14 (7%)
  Melling -- 3 of 12 (25%)
  Majid -- 1 of 5 (20%)
  Team England Total -- 7 of 48 (15%)
  
  USA + England Total -- 16 of 96 (17%)

Break-and-run games, on successful breaks:

• Van Boening -- 2 of 6 (33%)
  Deuel -- 2 of 3 (67%)
  Woodward -- 4 of 8 (50%)
  Thorpe -- 0 of 5 (0%)
  Styer -- 1 of 3 (33%)
  Team USA Total -- 9 of 25 (36%)
  
  Appleton -- 1 of 3 (33%)
  Boyes -- 1 of 5 (20%)
  Gray -- 1 of 8 (13%)
  Melling -- 3 of 5 (60%)
  Majid -- 1 of 1 (100%)
  Team England Total -- 7 of 22 (32%)
  
  USA + England Total -- 16 of 47 (34%)

[Note: A B&R in a doubles game is credited here to the breaker.]

 

[AtLarge]

Here are some match and game records for the 2018 Team USA vs. Team England event. SEE POST #1 ABOVE FOR A LIST OF THE 13 MATCHES.

Scoring the way it counts, by matches -- USA 7, England 6 (winning percentage of 54%)

Scoring by games rather than matches -- USA 55, England 46 (winning percentage of 54%)

Match Records of Individual players. For the following records, I counted a full win or loss for each player in each match (i.e., not splitting the point into halves for doubles matches). So these numbers essentially answer the question: "In how many winning and losing matches was each player involved?" [Note: These records show wins and losses, so a record like 1-2 means 1 win and 2 losses, not 1 win out of 2 matches.]

• Team USA
  
  • • Shane Van Boening ..... 2-0 singles, 0-2 doubles, 2-2 total (winning percentage of 50%)
    
    • Corey Deuel ..... 0-1 singles, 0-2 doubles, 0-3 total (0%)
    
    • Skyler Woodward ..... 2-0 singles, 2-1 doubles, 4-1 total (80%)
    
    • Billy Thorpe ..... 0-1 singles, 1-2 doubles, 1-3 total (25%)
    
    • Tyler Styer ..... 1-0 singles, 1-1 doubles, 2-1 total (67%)
    
    Team USA Total ..... 5-2 singles, 4-8 doubles, 9-10 total (47%)
  
  Team England
  
  • • Darren Appleton ..... 0-1 singles, 1-1 doubles, 1-2 total (33%)
    
    • Karl Boyes ..... 0-1 singles, 1-1 doubles, 1-2 total (33%)
    
    • Mark Gray ..... 1-1 singles, 2-1 doubles, 3-2 total (60%)
    
    • Chris Melling ..... 1-1 singles, 3-0 doubles, 4-1 total (80%)
    
    • Imran Majid ..... 0-1 singles, 1-1 doubles, 1-2 total (33%)
    
    Team England Total ..... 2-5 singles, 8-4 doubles, 10-9 total (53%)

Another way of looking at the match records is to count a full point for each player in a singles win or loss and half a point for each player in a doubles win or loss. So the following numbers essentially answer the question: "What numerical contribution did each player make to the overall Mosconi Cup match scores?"

• Team USA
  
  • • Van Boening ..... 2.0 - 1.0 (winning percentage of 67%)
    • Deuel ..... 0 - 2.0 (0%)
    • Woodward ..... 3.0 - 0.5 (86%)
    • Thorpe ..... 0.5 - 2.0 (20%)
    • Styer ..... 1.5 - 0.5 (75%)
    
    Team USA Total ..... 7 - 6 (54%)
    
  
  Team England
  
  • • Appleton ..... 0.5 - 1.5 (25%)
    • Boyes ..... 0.5 - 1.5 (25%)
    • Gray ..... 2.0 - 1.5 (57%)
    • Melling ..... 2.5 - 1.0 (71%)
    • Majid ..... 0.5 - 1.5 (25%)
    
    Team England Total ..... 6 - 7 (46%)

Game Records of Individual Players. Counting half a point for each player in a doubles win or loss (so the totals will add to 101 games), here are the individual records for games won and lost:

• Team USA
  
  • • Van Boening ..... 13.5 - 10.0 (winning percentage of 57%)
    • Deuel ..... 8.0 - 10.0 (44%)
    • Woodward ..... 17.0 - 11.0 (61%)
    • Thorpe ..... 7.0 - 11.0 (39%)
    • Styer ..... 9.5 - 4.0 (70%)
    
    Team USA Total ..... 55 - 46 (54%)
    
  
  Team England
  
  • • Appleton ..... 6.5 - 9.0 (42%)
    • Boyes ..... 6.5 - 9.5 (41%)
    • Gray ..... 14.5 - 15.5 (48%)
    • Melling ..... 14.5 - 11.5 (56%)
    • Majid ..... 4.0 - 9.5 (30%)
    
    Team England Total ..... 46 - 55 (46%)

 

[AtLarge]

Regarding lags:

• USA won 5 lags, England won 8.

• The team that won the lag won the first game 5 times (2 by USA, 3 by England).

• The team that won the lag won the match 5 times (2 by USA, 3 by England).

• In the 4 hill/hill matches, USA won the lag 3 times. England won all 4 matches.

The team that won the first game (7 by USA, 6 by England) won the match 9 times (5 by USA, 4 by England).

 

[ChrisinNC]

Here are some break results for the Team USA vs. Team England 9-Ball event played Nov. 28, 2018 at Spots & Stripes in London, England. This event, held as preparation for Team USA's playing in the Mosconi Cup next week, was 9-Ball racing to 7 matches, with each match being a race to 5 games. The format was 6 doubles matches and up to 7 singles matches (all were needed). Team USA won 7-6. Free streaming was provided on the Mosconi Cup Facebook page.

The players for Team USA were Shane Van Boening, Corey Deuel, Skyler Woodward, Billy Thorpe, and Tyler Styer. The players for Team Europe were Darren Appleton, Karl Boyes, Mark Gray, Chris Melling, and Imran Majid.

The conditions for this event included the following:
- Rasson Victory 9-foot table with blue Simonis cloth;
- Aramith Tournament balls with the measles cue ball;
- referee racks using a triangle rack with the 1-ball on the foot spot;
- alternate breaks from anywhere behind the head string;
- no illegal break rule;
- 30-sec. shot clock (60 sec. after the break), with one 30-sec. extension per side per game;
- foul on all balls;
- jump cues allowed;
- lag for the break.

The 13 matches were as follows, in the order they were played:

1. Melling & Gray defeated Van Boening & Deuel 5-4
2. Styer d. Majid 5-0
3. Thorpe & Woodward d. Appleton & Boyes 5-2
4. Melling d. Thorpe 5-1
5. Melling & Majid d. Deuel & Woodward 5-4
6. Van Boening d. Appleton 5-3
7. Gray & Boyes d. Thorpe & Styer 5-4
8. Gray d. Deuel 5-4
9. Appleton & Melling d. Van Boening & Thorpe 5-3
10. Woodward & Styer d. Gray & Majid 5-3
11. Woodward d. Boyes 5-3
12. Van Boening d. Melling 5-2
13. Woodward d. Gray 5-3

The event consisted of 101 games. Because of streaming problems during Match #5, the stats in this post exclude 5 games from that match and are, therefore, for 96 games.

The successful-break rates (made at least one ball and did not foul) were 52% for Team USA (25 of 48) and 46% (22 of 48) for Team Europe.

Team USA won the game on 56% (27 of 48) of their own breaks, whereas Team Europe won on 46% (22 of 48) of their breaks. Some details:

Team USA broke 48 times, with the following results:
• Made at least one ball (and did not foul) and won the game -- 19 (40%)
• Made at least one ball (and did not foul) and lost the game -- 6 (13%)
• Broke dry or fouled but won the game -- 8 (17%)
• Broke dry or fouled and lost the game -- 15 (31%)

Team Europe broke 48 times, with the following results:
• Made at least one ball (and did not foul) and won the game -- 17 (35%)
• Made at least one ball (and did not foul) and lost the game -- 5 (10%)
• Broke dry or fouled but won the game -- 5 (10%)
• Broke dry or fouled and lost the game -- 21 (44%)

For the two teams combined, the breaker made at least one ball (and did not foul) 49% (47 of 96) of the time; the breaking side won 51% (49 of 96) of the games; and the breaking side won 77% (36 of 47) of the games in which the breaker made at least one ball on the break and did not foul.

Break-and-run on all breaks:
• Team USA -- 9 out of 48 (19%)
• Team Europe -- 7 out of 48 (15%)
• Total -- 16 out of 96 (17%)

Break-and-run on successful breaks:
• Team USA -- 9 out of 25 (36%)
• Team Europe -- 7 out of 22 (32%)
• Total -- 16 out of 47 (34%)

Excellent stats, but would be nice to see each individual player's shooting percentage, unless I missed it. Thanks

 

[AtLarge]

Excellent stats, but would be nice to see each individual player's shooting percentage, unless I missed it. Thanks

I'm not sure what you mean by shooting percentage. I don't normally try to calculate an Accu-Stats TPA, as that is their baby. Posts 2 and 3 do show some individual-player results.

 

[AtLarge]

Regarding Balls Made on the Break:

The rate of successful breaks in this event was, to me, surprisingly low. I don't remember (I haven't checked thoroughly) any other 9-Ball event I have tracked that was so low on that measure, except for one. And that was the 2013 Mosconi Cup, where the 9-ball was on the spot and they used a narrow break box (about 6" to each side of center).

But comparing yesterday's event with the 2017 Mosconi Cup, the breaking rules were the same and the table was a Rasson in both cases. I did not hear any mention of pocket size yesterday; at the 2017 MC the corners were said to be 4¼". One possible difference on the table used yesterday is deeper pocket shelves, but I am not sure. The results were way different between the two events.

Successful breaks (made at least one ball and did not foul):
• USA vs. England -- 49% (47 of 96)
• 2017 MC -- 81% (93 of 115)

Average number of balls made on all breaks:
• USA vs. England -- 0.7
• 2017 MC -- 1.3

Average number of balls made on successful breaks:
• USA vs. England -- 1.3
• 2017 MC -- 1.6

Frequency with which the 1-ball was pocketed in the side pocket on the opposite side from the breaker:
• USA vs. England -- 9% (9 of 96)
• 2017 MC -- 40% (46 of 115)

Frequency with which the wing ball on the same side of the table as the breaker was pocketed in its nearest corner pocket:
• USA vs. England -- 17% (16 of 96)
• 2017 MC -- 63% (72 of 115)

So I'm interested in seeing what happens in this regard at next week's MC. Will they be using the same Rasson table as was used yesterday or a different one? If it's the same one, will the stats improve?

[Note -- As mentioned earlier, my break stats from yesterday exclude 5 games because of streaming problems. But even if the break was successful in all 5 of those games, the differences shown above vs. last year's MC would still be large.]

Edit -- It seemed yesterday as though the players sometimes felt they were not getting a good, tight rack. At times, some of them moved away from the normal rail-side break to a spot not far from center table. While we can't really compare the referees' racking quality, I wonder whether that was a factor.

 

[GB Basher]

Regarding Balls Made on the Break:

The rate of successful breaks in this event was, to me, surprisingly low. I don't remember (I haven't checked thoroughly) any other 9-Ball event I have tracked that was so low on that measure, except for one. And that was the 2013 Mosconi Cup, where the 9-ball was on the spot and they used a narrow break box (about 6" to each side of center).

But comparing yesterday's event with the 2017 Mosconi Cup, the breaking rules were the same and the table was a Rasson in both cases. I did not hear any mention of pocket size yesterday; at the 2017 MC the corners were said to be 4¼". One possible difference on the table used yesterday is deeper pocket shelves, but I am not sure. The results were way different between the two events.

Successful breaks (made at least one ball and did not foul):
• USA vs. England -- 49% (47 of 96)
• 2017 MC -- 81% (93 of 115)

Average number of balls made on all breaks:
• USA vs. England -- 0.7
• 2017 MC -- 1.3

Average number of balls made on successful breaks:
• USA vs. England -- 1.3
• 2017 MC -- 1.6

Frequency with which the 1-ball was pocketed in the side pocket on the opposite side from the breaker:
• USA vs. England -- 9% (9 of 96)
• 2017 MC -- 40% (46 of 115)

Frequency with which the wing ball on the same side of the table as the breaker was pocketed in its nearest corner pocket:
• USA vs. England -- 17% (16 of 96)
• 2017 MC -- 63% (72 of 115)

So I'm interested in seeing what happens in this regard at next week's MC. Will they be using the same Rasson table as was used yesterday or a different one? If it's the same one, will the stats improve?

[Note -- As mentioned earlier, my break stats from yesterday exclude 5 games because of streaming problems. But even if the break was successful in all 5 of those games, the differences shown above vs. last year's MC would still be large.]

Edit -- It seemed yesterday as though the players sometimes felt they were not getting a good, tight rack. At times, some of them moved away from the normal rail-side break to a spot not far from center table. While we can't really compare the referees' racking quality, I wonder whether that was a factor.

The pockets yesterday were about 4.5".
One of the refs was very inexperienced at reffing american pool. To put it bluntly his racking was very bad. The other refs racking was ok but not excellent

 

[AtLarge]

The pockets yesterday were about 4.5".
One of the refs was very inexperienced at reffing american pool. To put it bluntly his racking was very bad. The other refs racking was ok but not excellent

You were there yesterday, right? Does your figure of about 4.5" come from actually measuring them yourself, or from someone else who told you that, or from the appearance of the pockets from the stands, or from something else?

Was the ref who had the racking problems the older, slimmer one with glasses?

 

[GB Basher]

You were there yesterday, right? Does your figure of about 4.5" come from actually measuring them yourself, or from someone else who told you that, or from the appearance of the pockets from the stands, or from something else?

Was the ref who had the racking problems the older, slimmer one with glasses?

Yes, I was there.
No I didn't actually measure the pockets openings with a tape. But I did place 2 balls side by side in the pocket opening.
You are correct about the referee

 

[AtLarge]

Yes, I was there.
No I didn't actually measure the pockets openings with a tape. But I did place 2 balls side by side in the pocket opening.
You are correct about the referee

Ah, thanks. So it's possible that the pockets on this table had wider openings but deeper shelves than did last year's MC table.

It did seem that quite a few balls on the break got inside the facings but just wouldn't fall.

 

[GB Basher]

The shelves did appear to be slightly deeper to me. But this is only my opinion.
I believe the same table will be used next week......from the grape vine.

 

[AtLarge]

... I believe the same table will be used next week......from the grape vine.

I think I heard Emily Frazer say that, too. But they must have at least three tables at the MC site, including a practice table for each team, so whether it will be the match table, I don't know.

 

[GB Basher]

I think I heard Emily Frazer say that, too. But they must have at least three tables at the MC site, including a practice table for each team, so whether it will be the match table, I don't know.

As I was there. I didn't see any of the stream or hear any of the commentary.
But if you heard Emily say it, it's gonna be true.

Even if it's not the match table, I would expect all of the tables to have the same shelves and pocket openings.

 

[pt109]

mvp



imo

 

[AtLarge]

A few minutes ago, I noticed that I had "Europe" instead of "England" in about a dozen places in posts #1 and #2 (I edited them).

Nobody mentioned it. So either people aren't reading closely, or they had the same "mindo" that I did, or they were just too lazy or too polite to tell me.

I assure you that I appreciate it whenever someone points out an error in my threads, as I like them to be completely accurate and of value going forward.

Thanks.

 

[AtLarge]

Regarding Match and Game Lengths

Average elapsed time and minutes per game:
• Singles matches -- 36 min./match, 4.9 min./game
• Doubles matches -- 46 min./match, 5.6 min./game
Total -- 40 min./match, 5.2 min./game

The elapsed time for each match was measured from the lag until the winning ball was made, so it includes time for racking.

In elapsed time, the Gray/Boyes d. Thorpe/Styer match was longest at 51½ min. for the 9 games and the Styer d. Majid match was shortest at 26 min for the 5 games.

In average minutes per game, the Woodward/Styer d. Gray/Majid match (8 games) was highest at 6.3 and the Van Boening d. Melling match (7 games) was lowest at 4.5


[Excludes the doubles Match #5, which I could not time because of streaming problems.]

 

[9BallKY]

It amuses me when people say that 9 ball is to easy but here with 10 top players the B&R is only 17% for just over 100 games.

 

[AtLarge]

It amuses me when people say that 9 ball is to easy but here with 10 top players the B&R is only 17% for just over 100 games.

You're right, the frequency of B&R's by pros is often overstated.

One little thing here -- that 17% figure was for 96 games rather than the full 101 games played in the event. I didn't see most of 5 games in Match #5 because of streaming problems. But even if all 5 of those missing games were B&R's (I highly doubt they were), the B&R rate would still have been just 21%.

 

[9BallKY]

You're right, the frequency of B&R's by pros is often overstated.

One little thing here -- that 17% figure was for 96 games rather than the full 101 games played in the event. I didn't see most of 5 games in Match #5 because of streaming problems. But even if all 5 of those missing games were B&R's (I highly doubt they were), the B&R rate would still have been just 21%.

You do an awesome job of keeping and posting the stats. Thanks for doing so. I always check them out. I always check the B&R stats and they are hardly ever over 22 or 23%. If failing to get out from the break at least 75% of the time is to easy for pro players how many times does an amateur get out from the break playing an easy game.