Steel Joint verses Ivory Joint

vinniebabarooch

vinniebabarooch

Wanna Sell Your Hercek?
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Can anyone tell me the diffrences between the two? How they hit. How about between an ivory piloted joint compared to ivory flat (radial) joint? Thanks
 
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This link has a cue with piloted joint.
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=25075

This link below has schick cue from uncle waldo site has a flat joint.
http://www.unclewaldosbilliards.com/?uwb=cues&id=26

Piloted joint cue e.g. Hercek, Gina, Mottey and schon, most of their cue are are using piloted joint.
Flat face joint e.g southwest,coker, omen and most meucci.(some are using radial and some normal pin).

I prefer 5/16x14 or 5/16x18 as it is not wood thread(female). Some wood female thread do chip of.
 
here is what i believe, phenlonic joints carry vibration down into the butt, and thus into your grip hand for instant feedback of the hit, where as, the stainless steel joint is a much more solid and powerful hit, however it dies out the second you hit the cueball, they are both good. to me if your playing with a 16.5 cue like i do, a phenlonic hit just seems to go with it, and if you play with a 19 and three quarter ounce cue, which i like as well, a stainless steel joint seems to marry well with that.
 
WOW, you play with a 16.5 oz. cue?....I'll have to try that some time.

Anyway, I had 2 Phillippe cues, 1 with steel joint and ivorine or whatever he used ferrule, Lepro tips....it hit hard, real hard, even clicky.

other one was ivory joint, ivory ferrule, Lepro tip....softer hit, smooth, flowing feel.

I wish to God I had BOTH of them back Today!...:)

Gerry
 
vinniebabarooch said:
Can anyone tell me the diffrences between the two? How they hit. How about between an ivory piloted joint compared to ivory flat (radial) joint? Thanks
Click to expand...

"radial" refers to the pin, not the joint type, though it's used almost exclusively on a flatface joint.

ss is the hardest joint material you will get, but concomitant to that is a deadening of the feel of the cb hit. for what most every cuemaker is using, ivory is second to ss in hardness, but the feel of the hit travels to your grip better, so it feels livelier.

i have the opposite prefernce of bernie's in regard to what i use on different weighted cues. because the lighter cues(i have18 through 19.75) have less mass, i prefer a harder hit that will move the cb easier. so on one of my 18's i have a thin ss collar/flatface. this gives the cue an unmistakeable punch, yet has that balanced, weighted symmetry that light cues have.

i think some players prefer a light cue because they want to achieve that "oneness with the cb hit". the ss joint would negate this "oneness" and maybe that's what bernie is refering to about the "marraige" or synergy of joint material to cue weight.
 
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What I like ...

I use a 5/16 x 14 Stainless Steel piloted joint on a 20.2 oz cue, and like it a lot. I have a solid firm hit, but with feel to it, to me. I have a pro taper on my shafts. I have played with other joints, but the SS just feels best to me.
To me, it is slightly like how you pick a bat to bat with in baseball, and the feedback feel you get when you hit the ball.
 
�I personally do not like a Steel Joints, as the CHEAP ONES that are not Fitted Precisely seem to Vibrate. I am talking Production cues where Butts & Shaft are randomly put together at the end of a production line, and sent on for sale. I have personally seen Several Lucasi's that had REAL BAD VIBRATION PROBLEMS.

I have never had the pleasures of playing with a High Dollar Custom with a Precision Fitted Steel joint. So my comments only pertain to what I mentioned above....
 
interesting story on how i came to love the lighter cues. one evening way back in 1985 i was playing in an 8-ball bar tournament at the bull creek inn, in long island new york, back in the mid 80's in a sleezy topless bar way out on long island, if you brought your own cue, someone would take it and shove it up y, well, you get the picture, anyhow, right before this one particular tournament started,everyone grabbed all the "normal" sized 58" one piece house cues, well i looked around and i found a cue that was short, mind you it wasn't one of those very short baby cues that one might use for walls that are in the way, no, it was short, but not VERY short, so i said, hey, i'll try it, i got no other choice, so when it was my turn i got to the table with this short cue that must have weighed oh, around 13 ounces, well, when i went to make a shot, it felt better than any cue i ever shot with in my entire life by a billion times over!!!!! i couldn't believe it! it made all the world of a difference, it seemed "natural" "unforced" "automatic" now, remember, i was on a 3x6 bar table, so if you could imagine this, it was a case of the the cue was on the same scale as the table! almost like this~~~ if your 6 foot 7 and your looking at a toy train set-up layout, it all looks so small and fake, however, if your just an 8 year old kid looking at a nice lionel train set, it looks very real, because your PERSPECTIVE is WOW! i'm "right in on the action!" that's how this light short cue made me feel, like it was MADE for this tiny table. anyhow, after i discovered that cue, i won that tournament 11 times, and then i ordered a Mali two piece T-7 cue in 17 ounces, that cue SANG!!!!!!! it was automatic and sweet! after a few years i wondered if i should sell it, and buy a new cue with a "normal" weight. even though that cue had a weight bolt, i tried to bring it to a specialist to remove the weight bolt to put a heavier one in, so i wouldn;t have to buy a new cue, and they tried and tried with all their mite, but they finally told me that it's no good, the weight bolt was cemented or deep glued in. i was out of luck when i went to sell this cue, at the pool hall was a couple playing with house cues and they were basically banging the balls around, i went up to them, and said, hey, check out this cue, first the guy played with it, and man, it was so funny, all of a sudden he was finesssing the balls in!!!!! it was like he became a completly different player!, then his wife nearly ripped the cue out of his hands!, and she also!! started playing softly with finesse and much more skill!!, they said how much? and i sold it right then and there! the very first people i went up to, that say's something about how sweet that cue was! so,i bit the bullet and bought a brand new cue, in 18oz. the moment i played with it, i hated the weight!!!!! i felt the weight was in the twilight zone, neither here nor there, it wasn't light enough, or heavy enough, (for the record i also love a meaty cue that's near 20 oz) to this day i hate, and i mean HATE 18 oz. cues, except for breaking with. well, anyhow, i returned the cue after not liking it for a 3 month period, and told them, please make this play at 17 oz. well i got it back and it played perfectly, i put it on an expensive accurate scale and it said 16.5 oz!! i figured, well, the butt sleave has ebony so maybe that's why 16.5 oz feels like 17, because ebony is HEAVY. anyway, that's my story about different weights, now with all that said,i didn't have to buy a new cue after all!!!, and i learned we should NOT confuse weight with balence, there are many, many cues out there that weigh 19oz. but feel like 16.5, and there are many cues out there that weigh 18 oz. that feel like 21, it's a matter of the balence, not the weight. so the cue i use now,is a Mali M-14 16.5oz. with phenlonic joints, and i'd like to pick up a cue one day, that's the opposite, like a 20oz. stainless steel joint, both are great, and both have distinctive feels to them, the 16.5 has a natural easy automatic point and shot feel, and the stainless steel 20oz. feels more secure solid, and definite. the bottom line is, it's what YOU like.
 
Hey Bernie:

Try breaking up your post into several smaller paragraphs to facilitate reading. Doing so really helps the reader.
 
kokopuffs said:
Hey Bernie:

Try breaking up your post into several smaller paragraphs to facilitate reading. Doing so really helps the reader.
Click to expand...

,,,reading what?
 
icem3n said:
I don't think you can really tell the difference between ivory, phenolic and ss that is unless you played 4-6 hours a day.
Click to expand...

yes you can,,,and it doesn't require that much playing. give me 1 to 2 hours with a C player. it just has to be pointed out
 
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