Stopped ball

[DynoDan]

Curious: In an unrefereed game, who determines when a ball actually ‘stops’? How long can it waver on the ledge before it is ruled as ‘stopped’? Is it like determining a good (split) hit (shooter gets the benefit of doubt)? A ball may lose it’s basic initial momentum for all intents & purposes, but isn’t the immediate settling process, though barely perceptible, then still a part of the shot? The official rules do not specify a time limit.

 

[Poolhall60561]

As a courtesy and just a guess, 10 seconds if it’s hanging on the edge of a pocket.

 

[skor]

Count 5 seconds

 

[DynoDan]

When we were kids, I think we counted it as ‘pocketed’ if it fell before the next player could shoot. Of course, that often led to arguments about bumping the table or stomping on the floor . Personally, I believe that SHOULD be the rule, and your opponent, acting as ref, could legitimately then call a foul if he honestly thought you did try to interfere. The official rule would still apply though re: restoration, especially if a delayed drop effected outcome after the next shot.

 

[Bob Jewett]

Curious: In an unrefereed game, who determines when a ball actually ‘stops’? How long can it waver on the ledge before it is ruled as ‘stopped’?... The official rules do not specify a time limit.

The official rules do specify a time limit. Here's the applicable part of the rule:

If a ball stops near the edge of a pocket, and remains apparently motionless for five seconds after the shot is over, it is not considered pocketed if it later falls into the pocket by itself (see 1.7 Balls Settling for other details). During that five second period, play is suspended.​

 

[epoxypop]

The official rules do specify a time limit. Here's the applicable part of the rule:

If a ball stops near the edge of a pocket, and remains apparently motionless for five seconds after the shot is over, it is not considered pocketed if it later falls into the pocket by itself (see 1.7 Balls Settling for other details). During that five second period, play is suspended.​

So what happens next, is it the opponents shot, if it falls after 5 seconds?

 

[Bob Jewett]

So what happens next, is it the opponents shot, if it falls after 5 seconds?

It's possible that it's still the same player's shot. Maybe he knocked a second ball towards a pocket and it hung on the lip.

If a hanging ball falls after five seconds, it is put back. If the falling has an effect on the shot in progress, the shot is replayed.

 

[maha]

my take is 5 seconds and the ball goes up and is considered not pocketed. same as if it stayed there, but now goes on the spot.
or rule that it gets replaced where it was. either way.

but we play by rule books in tournaments. and it works the same way for both parties so it is fair.

 

[GideonF]

that often led to arguments about bumping the table or stomping on the floor . Personally, I believe that SHOULD be the rule, and your opponent, acting as ref, could legitimately then call a foul if he honestly thought you did try to interfere. The official rule would still apply though re: restoration, especially if a delayed drop effected outcome after the next shot.

I’m pretty sure this would be covered by Unsportsmanlike Conduct, example B (see pic). Penalty is up to the referee but I’d think restoration of the ball and BIH would be the minimum. If it was unintentional I would think the ball simply is restored.

By way, there is an example of either deliberate or unintentional bumping of the table resulting in a ball dropping in a streamed match. I believe it was an area referee situation and no one called a foul - perhaps they didn’t see the bump.

2.9M views · 29K reactions | Wow... 🫣 Some crazy misfortune for Alexis Ferrer, as Dang Thanh Kien's 9-ball falls after hanging in the pocket... 👀 #WNT | #HanoiOpenPool 🇻🇳 | Matchroom Pool

Wow... 🫣 Some crazy misfortune for Alexis Ferrer, as Dang Thanh Kien's 9-ball falls after hanging in the pocket... 👀 #WNT | #HanoiOpenPool 🇻🇳

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[DynoDan]

The official rules do specify a time limit. Here's the applicable part of the rule:

If a ball stops near the edge of a pocket, and remains apparently motionless for five seconds after the shot is over, it is not considered pocketed if it later falls into the pocket by itself (see 1.7 Balls Settling for other details). During that five second period, play is suspended.​

So, assuming the agreed rules of play were WPA, and not trad. BCA, you would have to remember to start counting to 5 immediately after the ball stopped at the edge (preferably out loud).
BTW: Inflicting a traditionally severe ‘unsportsmanlike’ penalty in an unrefereed game could be a bit much. I think I would rather rush my shot (like we used to) than argue over an exact time, and if his ball dropped after he bumped the table (regardless of time), loss of turn & restoration would have to do.

 

[FeelDaShot]

Interesting question and it got me thinking...Let's say a ball is hanging in a pocket (longer than 5 seconds). A follow up shot is played at the opposite end of the table and the hanging ball suddenly falls on it's own without any influence from the shot played. However, it happened to fall while balls were still live and rolling on the table. Does it count or does it get spotted back up?