Straight pool thoughts and a question

[frankncali]

I am a noob to straight pool. Maybe 12-13 years ago I played some for
a couple weeks and that was it. I played two games to 100 over the last
couple days. Nothing stellar by any means.
Now heres what i am wondering. What effect does playing on a bar table
have on the game. It was the only thing around and we played for
something different. Of course balls went easier but not many had to be fired down the rails so pocket easiness never really came up that much.

I think one of its main benefits would be that you have to concentrate
on all shots. One slip and you could be sitting.

Breaking sucks on the bar table.

If a guy usually averages 10 balls per turn on a 9 footer what would his
average run be on a bar table? Does the lack of area to maneuver
effect his average? Does the size difference and the easier pockets aid
him to raise his average by a significant amount?

In straight pool whats good? Is there an A<B<C<D chart or scale for
playing? If a player is b-level in 9ball what should he shoot for in
straight pool.

I think I might try some more of it and try to see if I can get a decent run. So far nothing worth admitting. During those two weeks 12 years ago I slipped in a 37 and kind of consistently went for 20-30.
I hope want to try and find a good 9footer to play on one day instead of the bar table. Thats tough to do in my immediate area. I do think playing on the bar box adds a wrinkle in it. It gets very clustered but at the same time is or seems more manageable.

 

[Blackjack]

I am a noob to straight pool. Maybe 12-13 years ago I played some for
a couple weeks and that was it. I played two games to 100 over the last
couple days. Nothing stellar by any means.
Now heres what i am wondering. What effect does playing on a bar table
have on the game. It was the only thing around and we played for
something different. Of course balls went easier but not many had to be fired down the rails so pocket easiness never really came up that much.

I think one of its main benefits would be that you have to concentrate
on all shots. One slip and you could be sitting.

Breaking sucks on the bar table.

If a guy usually averages 10 balls per turn on a 9 footer what would his
average run be on a bar table? Does the lack of area to maneuver
effect his average? Does the size difference and the easier pockets aid
him to raise his average by a significant amount?

In straight pool whats good? Is there an A<B<C<D chart or scale for
playing? If a player is b-level in 9ball what should he shoot for in
straight pool.

I think I might try some more of it and try to see if I can get a decent run. So far nothing worth admitting. During those two weeks 12 years ago I slipped in a 37 and kind of consistently went for 20-30.
I hope want to try and find a good 9footer to play on one day instead of the bar table. Thats tough to do in my immediate area. I do think playing on the bar box adds a wrinkle in it. It gets very clustered but at the same time is or seems more manageable.

You bring up some great questions. Does the bar table make it different? Yes, in some ways. I believe you can have just as much of a challenge on the smaller table as you will on a bigger table. The only drawbacks are pocket size and constricted space, but it is a little different. I had the wonderful opportunity to play Cowboy Jimmy Moore on a bar table several times. To me, it seemed as if he just adapted to the smaller space of the table, and went about his business. I was able to play Jimmy Moore in 8 ball, straight pool, and 9 ball on several occasions on different sized tables. When the table got smaller, my playing suffered. It never phased Jimmy. This was also back when the bar tables had the big cue ball. I think it comes down to the individual player.

As far as "what's good?" Well Im in a new phase of my life which is pretty interesting. With my Parkinson's Disease my physical abilities are fading and I am learning how to enjoy playing in different ways and on different levels. For me, its not how many balls I run or who I beat, its about whether or not I am enjoying myself. I find when my goal is enjoyment, I tend to play better. If you are running 20-30 regularly, that is pretty good and a great place to start. I still believe that straight pool is the greatest game and the best teacher.

 

[hobokenapa]

Interesting

Interesting question. I've never played Straight on a bar table but you'd think it'd be easier. I found 9-ball in Vegas very easy on bar tables, but I get more 8-ball break and runs on 9ft tables than bar boxes.

As for runs, I'm a "B" player on the Tri-State tour, and I've played probably once a week since September (9ft tables), and I have two runs over 40, and about fifteen over 30. I've only played Straight Pool with two players that were "A" on the Tri-State (not A+ or Open) and both had run over 100.

 

[hobokenapa]

I am a noob to straight pool. Maybe 12-13 years ago I played some for
a couple weeks and that was it. I played two games to 100 over the last
couple days. Nothing stellar by any means.
Now heres what i am wondering. What effect does playing on a bar table
have on the game. It was the only thing around and we played for
something different. Of course balls went easier but not many had to be fired down the rails so pocket easiness never really came up that much.

I think one of its main benefits would be that you have to concentrate
on all shots. One slip and you could be sitting.

Breaking sucks on the bar table.

If a guy usually averages 10 balls per turn on a 9 footer what would his
average run be on a bar table? Does the lack of area to maneuver
effect his average? Does the size difference and the easier pockets aid
him to raise his average by a significant amount?

In straight pool whats good? Is there an A<B<C<D chart or scale for
playing? If a player is b-level in 9ball what should he shoot for in
straight pool.

I think I might try some more of it and try to see if I can get a decent run. So far nothing worth admitting. During those two weeks 12 years ago I slipped in a 37 and kind of consistently went for 20-30.
I hope want to try and find a good 9footer to play on one day instead of the bar table. Thats tough to do in my immediate area. I do think playing on the bar box adds a wrinkle in it. It gets very clustered but at the same time is or seems more manageable.

Jude, you're an A player with a 9-ball background but fairly new to Straight Pool, have you run 60, 70?

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

Jude, you're an A player with a 9-ball background but fairly new to Straight Pool, have you run 60, 70?

64 followed by a 36 in the same game and over 50 several times.

As for the barbox question, I feel pool, in general, is about encountering situations that you know how to deal with successfully moreso than your opponent. A barbox simply doesn't have the same number of difficult situations that a 9-footer might have. With that said, if I play Tony Robles in a barbox, what seperates the two of us likely won't come up. On the otherhand, on a 9-footer, those situations will be fairly frequent.

Playing straight pool on a barbox, I feel the better players are going to encounter the run-stopping problems a little more frequently while the weaker players are going to benefit from the lack of long-shots to deal with. In the end, what seperates a better player from a weaker one is going to be less distinguishable.

 

[frankncali]

64 followed by a 36 in the same game and over 50 several times.

As for the barbox question, I feel pool, in general, is about encountering situations that you know how to deal with successfully moreso than your opponent. A barbox simply doesn't have the same number of difficult situations that a 9-footer might have. With that said, if I play Tony Robles in a barbox, what seperates the two of us likely won't come up. On the otherhand, on a 9-footer, those situations will be fairly frequent.

Playing straight pool on a barbox, I feel the better players are going to encounter the run-stopping problems a little more frequently while the weaker players are going to benefit from the lack of long-shots to deal with. In the end, what seperates a better player from a weaker one is going to be less distinguishable.

Nice runs !!

I have always thought that the bar table provided tougher situations than
a big tables. A player will have closer clusters and more of them as well
as many more sharp angles. I do believe that the pockets make up for alot of the those situations.

Are there any 7 footers that have pocket characteristics of a 9 footer?

the 9footer brings in distance troubles. This is what I think seperates players once they reach B level and up. The ability to deal with distance. The better the player the better shape he leaves himself. He takes the distance and the angles out of play.

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

Nice runs !!

I have always thought that the bar table provided tougher situations than
a big tables. A player will have closer clusters and more of them as well
as many more sharp angles. I do believe that the pockets make up for alot of the those situations.

Are there any 7 footers that have pocket characteristics of a 9 footer?

the 9footer brings in distance troubles. This is what I think seperates players once they reach B level and up. The ability to deal with distance. The better the player the better shape he leaves himself. He takes the distance and the angles out of play.

Thank you for the compliment.

Interestingly, most bartables I've encountered have smaller pockets than those found on a 9-footer. The only reason why they may appear bigger is tha the table is smaller. I know the corner-pockets are always a crap-shoot as to how easy they'll play but the sides are ALWAYS smaller.

 

[frankncali]

Blackjack,

I have noticed the same thing as you regarding players like Moore (any real good player). It does not matter to them as much. Whether its different
size, different cloth, different balls or a new cue they just seem to adapt
quickly. Or at least its less noticeable.

During my 2 weeks of straight pool years ago I was playing with a very good player. It only took a few innings and he was off and running balls and getting through the break. Next thing I knew he was in the 200s. He is what I would consider a AA player. I thought the new game would cause
a little more of a stumbling block. I did not think he would be bad at it but not straight to very good runs.
Talent is talent.

HobokenAPA
I find 9 ball easier and different on a bar table. If the table has some speed and the rails are okay then breaking might be the biggest difference.
That or the fact that you dont have to be spot on with so many shots down the rails to corner pockets. I also see alot more balls kicked in on the barbox.
As for 8 ball I believe its alot esier on a 9 footer. I guess its the room for the balls to spread. I am a 7 in 8ball in the APA and one thing I have never
accomplished is breaking and running 5 racks for a set. I have run 4
three times in league play but have never gotten the 5th. Two of those were
on a 9footer. Overall I am like you and have more break and runs on a
big table. One day I will break and run the set but usually on a bar table
I dont try and run out. It seems to hurt my chances of winning by taking the chance. IMO more games in APA 8ball are lost this way then any other.
I see players all the time trying to run out when very good players would have the worst of the odds at running the table.

 

[Kevin]

I would imagine the cluster factor and more exacting short-range position requirements complicate things quite a bit, while kinder pockets lets you "bend" around such obstacles a bit more easily.

Perhaps I equate bar box with coin-op, but no-one has mentioned the call-shot and safety situations requiring spotting a ball. The aggravation of having to drop in quarters... well, suffice to say I have never considered nor played straights on a bar box.

Queen of games for elegance, though King is one-pocket, 9-ball and rotation for Jacks and Jokers, 8-ball for knaves. JMO, however.

 

[frankncali]

Thank you for the compliment.

Interestingly, most bartables I've encountered have smaller pockets than those found on a 9-footer. The only reason why they may appear bigger is tha the table is smaller. I know the corner-pockets are always a crap-shoot as to how easy they'll play but the sides are ALWAYS smaller.

I agree. I think its the lack of a pocket shelf and smaller facings that make the barboxes accept balls easier. I try to get some of the players on my team used to shooting for the corner instead of the side due to its size.
The corner just accept the balls better than the sides.

I see you are from NYC. How do you get to the pool rooms? Cabs, drive
Subway? Do you take you cue with you?

I can stop and run a couple errands on the way to and from the pool room
and not have to worry about lugging around a cue. Do you have to take your cue with you going and coming or do you have a locker?
I imagine that you get a few odd looks carrying a cue case around if you have to get out.
I have always wondered how that worked in cities like NY. I would think it
would not be uncommon to see people carrying some oddities on the subway and down the street.

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

I agree. I think its the lack of a pocket shelf and smaller facings that make the barboxes accept balls easier. I try to get some of the players on my team used to shooting for the corner instead of the side due to its size.
The corner just accept the balls better than the sides.

I see you are from NYC. How do you get to the pool rooms? Cabs, drive
Subway? Do you take you cue with you?

I can stop and run a couple errands on the way to and from the pool room
and not have to worry about lugging around a cue. Do you have to take your cue with you going and coming or do you have a locker?
I imagine that you get a few odd looks carrying a cue case around if you have to get out.
I have always wondered how that worked in cities like NY. I would think it
would not be uncommon to see people carrying some oddities on the subway and down the street.

That's funny you should ask! Actually, seeing someone with a cue on their back isn't terribly unusual, especially on APA league nights. I actually live a mile from Amsterdam Billiards so I'll walk in good weather and take a cab or train other times. The poolroom keeps my cue for me behind the desk but I never felt odd about carrying it around with me. I've been doing it for over 15 years now so it's kinda second nature!

 

[sizl]

During my 2 weeks of straight pool years ago I was playing with a very good player. It only took a few innings and he was off and running balls and getting through the break. Next thing I knew he was in the 200s. He is what I would consider a AA player
.

Would that happen to be BB?

I am fixing to start experimenting with some straight pool. It can't help but to improve your offensive skills.

No 9 footers? You want to play some sets on the big track for an RC cola and a moon pie? I will fly you in and put you up...........let me know


I get the 8 and the break

 

[pete lafond]

Thank you for the compliment.

Interestingly, most bartables I've encountered have smaller pockets than those found on a 9-footer. The only reason why they may appear bigger is tha the table is smaller. I know the corner-pockets are always a crap-shoot as to how easy they'll play but the sides are ALWAYS smaller.

Your right on the illusion. Also, some bar tables have smaller balls. Another point is that the pocket openings are different (not width) in many cases which enables slop.

 

[Travis Bickle]

I see you are from NYC. How do you get to the pool rooms? Cabs, drive
Subway? Do you take you cue with you?

I can stop and run a couple errands on the way to and from the pool room
and not have to worry about lugging around a cue. Do you have to take your cue with you going and coming or do you have a locker?
I imagine that you get a few odd looks carrying a cue case around if you have to get out.
I have always wondered how that worked in cities like NY. I would think it
would not be uncommon to see people carrying some oddities on the subway and down the street.

Hey, so do you live in one of those places where people think it's weird to walk, and you only take the bus if your car's in the shop or you've gotten a DWI, or you're a bum?

Yes, you do occasionally see players in the subway toting a case. In fact, if I want to play after work, I have to haul it in (an hour on the subway) and stick it under my desk at the office.

Could go get it from home, assuming I'm going to play at my neighborhood PH, but my wife might spot me! And I'd lose 20 mins walking back to the pool hall because I can't afford to give up my precious parking spot!

 

[frankncali]

sizl

You had me until you threw in the moon pie.
I can remember back when I was playing around our area that I would refuse
to play on the barbox. 9 footers only. Now I thank the pool gods for the
little SOBs.

Yeah I was talking about BB. IMO he had and has the ability to play with anyone. I am not sure what keeps him from that next level but man
does he have a high gear. Good guy as well.


Travis Bickle
I am friends with "sizl" and the room we used to play at was 45 miles from my
house. No Subway unless you count the sandwich place. Only farmland
and a couple bridges. After a few years they did make the road a 4 lane road
which helped alot.

I can not imagine not being able to drive and park. I guess its something that
you get used to and adapt to. Its probably not unusual for someone to
have something a little strange on the subway.

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

sizl

You had me until you threw in the moon pie.
I can remember back when I was playing around our area that I would refuse
to play on the barbox. 9 footers only. Now I thank the pool gods for the
little SOBs.

Yeah I was talking about BB. IMO he had and has the ability to play with anyone. I am not sure what keeps him from that next level but man
does he have a high gear. Good guy as well.


Travis Bickle
I am friends with "sizl" and the room we used to play at was 45 miles from my
house. No Subway unless you count the sandwich place. Only farmland
and a couple bridges. After a few years they did make the road a 4 lane road
which helped alot.

I can not imagine not being able to drive and park. I guess its something that
you get used to and adapt to. Its probably not unusual for someone to
have something a little strange on the subway.

Actually, what gets annoying are the questions. People always ask, "So, what's in the case?" I usually tell them rather politely and follow up with, "So what's in your bag?"

At least once a month, someone will ask if it's a rifle. Without hesitation, I'll tell them, "No. It's an M4A1 SD Assault Rifle. Standard Issue for US Navy Seals. I got it cheap."

 

[frankncali]

Actually, what gets annoying are the questions. People always ask, "So, what's in the case?" I usually tell them rather politely and follow up with, "So what's in your bag?"

At least once a month, someone will ask if it's a rifle. Without hesitation, I'll tell them, "No. It's an M4A1 SD Assault Rifle. Standard Issue for US Navy Seals. I got it cheap."

You have to say that with a bit of a twitch going on and a twinkle in your eye. But not wearing Dockers and a buttondown ! The affect is not the same.

Last weekend I left my apartment and a guy saw me. Being polite he said hello and then said "whats in the tube dude? You going hunting?"
My mind raced for a good reponse but i could not think of anything. I said
"no just blueprints." I thought it sounded dumb and as I was about out of range he said " man it almost looks like a pool cue. I bet they look at you funny on the jobsite".
I simply waved and laughed to myself.

 

[Travis Bickle]

Travis Bickle
I am friends with "sizl" and the room we used to play at was 45 miles from my
house. No Subway unless you count the sandwich place. Only farmland
and a couple bridges. After a few years they did make the road a 4 lane road
which helped alot.

I can not imagine not being able to drive and park. I guess its something that
you get used to and adapt to. Its probably not unusual for someone to
have something a little strange on the subway.

Frank,

One way or another we get there, I guess. But driving maybe once or twice a week (gotta move on Mon. or Tues. morning for streetcleaning) has a least one advantage ... don't have to count my beers and worry about roadblocks! But then again I don't drink like I used to, sad to say.

Yes, you do see mighty odd things on the streets and in the subways here, so a cue case doesn't exactly stand out. But like Jude, I still get asked all the time ... sometimes I'll just give them a fixed look and say it's a rocket launcher and that I'm waiting on word from Osama.

A couple of months ago, in fact, on the night of large Jewish celebration at Madison Square Garden, two cops held up the A train to question me about my plain black Sterling case and made me pull out a couple of cues ... but, considering what this thread is about, I made no claims for my 14.1 game!

 

[bruin70]

I am a noob to straight pool. Maybe 12-13 years ago I played some for
a couple weeks and that was it. I played two games to 100 over the last
couple days. Nothing stellar by any means.
Now heres what i am wondering. What effect does playing on a bar table ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
I hope want to try and find a good 9footer to play on one day instead of the bar table. Thats tough to do in my immediate area. I do think playing on the bar box adds a wrinkle in it. It gets very clustered but at the same time is or seems more manageable.

i think playing on a bar table doesn't help one's game, but everyone is different. if you think it helps,,,,it helps. pocketing is easier on the 6'er, and strategy is strategy no matter what the table size,,,,you still have to navigate the table and bump balls.

since so much of pool is psychological, going from small to large will affect how you perceive your shots,,,ie, they will look tougher on a large table. this would be a concern for you and me, but not a pro.

there will be more clusters, but you change your strategy. i would spread the balls more rather than rather than pocketing them in the front half of the table as in classic 14.1.

a break shot is a break shot, but now i would go for sharper angles for bigger breaks.

since my runs end with bad misses on semi-tough shots, i would get better runs on the 6'ers.

 

[vapoolplayer]

Frank,

One way or another we get there, I guess. But driving maybe once or twice a week (gotta move on Mon. or Tues. morning for streetcleaning) !

that just totally pisses me off when i'm in NYC.........getting up at 7 every damn day to move my truck to the other side of the street