Straight Pool

G

Grady

Pro Player
I promoted three 14.1 events: Las Vegas, $15,000 added with 22 players, Portland, ME, $25,000 added, 43 players, Columbia, SC, $10,000 added with 28 players. That's not great support, if you ask me.
I still would like to stage Straight Pool tournaments and I will, if my Dec. event doesn't lose money. I promised my wife that if I lost money on this one, I'd quit doing tournaments.
I submitted a proposal to the UPA two months ago and asked for Bank Pool, 14.1 and One Pocket to get equal rankings points with 9 ball. They declined and gave me in writing that they have no interest in these disciplines.Last year I sent proposals to the BCA and the WPA , concerning in part their getting involved with me and Straight Pool. I was told that they have no interest in doing ever again any 14.1 tournaments.
Therefore if I do stage 14.1 events, I shall insist that players sign a contract stating that they won't ever play in a 14.1 tournament promoted by or sanctioned by one of the abovementioned three groups.This wouldn't mean that players couldn't play in 14.1 events like the one coming up in NJ, but just not anything that the groups have something to do with.
By the way, one of my lifelong strong beliefs is that 14.1 ought to be played on tough equipment. Running 100 balls or some other noteworthy thing doesn't mean much if it's done on what amounts to six inch pockets.
I also believe that with a couple of minor rules changes and great commentators I could make 14.1 more exciting than 9 Ball.Any Straight Pool lovers out in cyberspace who might know of a decent sponsor please contact me.
 
Hi Grady,

I wish I knew someone who could help back your venture. On the other hand, have you spoken with Mark Griffin? It seems he has interest in promoting one pocket. So do you. Perhaps your interest in 14.1 will encourage him to "jointly" run an event! It sure worked this January. How about at the Derby City? I'll play, if for no other reason than supporting you and 14.1! :cool:
 
Grady, I wish you luck in Texas and hope that you can eventually promote a successful 14.1 tournament. Also I understand your frustration with those organizations, but the contract is a bad idea. If you think your past 14.1 were not well supported see what happens when you ask Players to sign a contract. You might be shooting yourself in the foot. Then what will you do to enforce that contract 2 years later when the BCA does a straight pool tournament?
 
Hi Grady,

I hope your venture does well also. I also think that it is a bad idea to make players sign a contract. IMO, that would severely narrow your pool of participants.

bw
 
What the UPA said what? They have no interest in the other disciplines other than 9 Ball???? Its like the Academy Awards saying they have no interest in Documentaries, Shorts, Foreign films, Music, Costumes, etc. Only blockbuster money makers. What kind of outfit are they anyway? They intend or desire to represent all pool players. With this position they represent only the glitz and glamour. Not the foundations and fundementals of the game. Hell with them.
 
I don't get to play any straight pool here in Vancouver, because everyones 9 ball crazy.I think it's really great Grady that you are trying to ressurect the game at the big tournament level. It's unfornatute that you are getting no support from the powers that be.I wish you the best in all of your endevours because if people like you don't step up to the plate, straight pool as it once was, is definitley in jeopordy.Best of luck. RJ
 
Grady said:
By the way, one of my lifelong strong beliefs is that 14.1 ought to be played on tough equipment. Running 100 balls or some other noteworthy thing doesn't mean much if it's done on what amounts to six inch pockets.
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I agree completely. All world championship level staight pool events up to 1986 had tight equipment. The 1993 US Open had tight equipment, but that was the last time a large world class field competed in straight pool on tough tables. Both the 1999 National Straight Pool Championships and the 2000 US Open were contested on loose equipment.

Even if the matter of it being genrally tougher to pocket balls is dismissed, the fact is that accurate pattern play is not as important on loose equipment, as getting near the break shot is far less important. As I'm sure you'll remember well, Grady, in the good old days, many a run ended because the break shot itself was missed, but not so in the last two major 14.1 events.

Loose equipment really levels the playing field. Hundred ball runs are very special on tight equipment, but are far too common on loose equipment. To me, Tony Robles' 107 and out on tight equipment against Ervolino in the 1993 US Open 14.1 event was a greater accomplishment than his 148 ball run against Archer in the 2000 US Open 14.1 event. Seems Tony likes to run balls on guys named Johnny!

In short, I'm very pleased to hear that you are committed to the use of tough equipment. Good luck with your ventures.
 
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1992 14.1 US Open

sjm said:
I agree completely. All world championship level staight pool events up to 1986 had tight equipment. The 1993 US Open had tight equipment, but that was the last time a large world class field competed in straight pool on tough tables. Both the 1999 National Straight Pool Championships and the 2000 US Open were contested on loose equipment.

Even if the matter of it being genrally tougher to pocket balls is dismissed, the fact is that accurate pattern play is not as important on loose equipment, as getting near the break shot is far less important. As I'm sure you'll remember well, Grady, in the good old days, many a run ended because the break shot itself was missed, but not so in the last two major 14.1 events.

Loose equipment really levels the playing field. Hundred ball runs are very special on tight equipment, but are far too common on loose equipment. To me, Tony Robles' 107 and out on tight equipment against Ervolino in the 1993 US Open 14.1 event was a greater accomplishment than his 148 ball run against Archer in the 2000 US Open 14.1 event. Seems Tony likes to run balls on guys named Johnny!

In short, I'm very pleased to hear that you are committed to the use of tough equipment. Good luck with your ventures.
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Was Mike Sigel's famed 150 and out run against Zuglan in New York on tight equipment? I know it was played on a Gold Crown, but that might be my ignorance of table equipment. Sjm, if you'd allow me one more question, will be in NJ this upcoming weekend?
 
Bravo Grady

Grady, what would be of us pool lovers without you. Does anyone linked to the UPA even spend a half hour of their lives reading forums such as this? One can make the argument that a 9ball autrocracy is bad for the quality of pool. I would also say that it is bad for business. If they don't realize that other pool games also have potential, it reflects their inability to gauge the public. Good luck with everything.
 
Hi Grady,
Although you might not be getting exactly what you asked for from this thread with regards to sponsorship I hope the positive responses are of some comfort. I think it is very sad that this great game, 14:1 has been superseeded by 9 ball. If only somebody can revive this true test of skill, and indeed on tight pockets. I have seen 1 pocket played outside the US and it facinates me, so many elements are similar to snooker and all uk 8 ball style pool. Both games require great cue ball control and table knowledge and must not be allowed to be replaced by 9 ball. I would much prefer to play in a straight pool tournament than 9 ball.

Personally I would love somebody to try to create a pool tournament similar to the poker series. I beleive the facination with the poker is mainly due to the colorful characters and also them playing with their "own" money in a winner takes all match up. What people love about pool history is hearing the stories about the old characters and large money games, it seems even the non playing rich and famous enjoyed this scene at one point in time. I am convinced that if you could televise a tournament with a handful of the best money players in the world all putting up a large amount of cash in a winner takes all format in a similar style and format to the poker world series the general public would take it to heart.

Oh and preferably14:1 or even a mix of several cue disciplines
 
TheOne said:
Hi Grady,
. I am convinced that if you could televise a tournament with a handful of the best money players in the world all putting up a large amount of cash in a winner takes all format in a similar style and format to the poker world series the general public would take it to heart.

Oh and preferably14:1 or even a mix of several cue disciplines
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Why would a small group of gamblers play for their own money that they would then have to pay taxes on?. I doubt you could even find 6 players to post 10 Thousand each and then the prize would be $60,000? No one cares!

A big field then? You saw what happened with the Million Dollar tournament. They had less than 10 entries.

Pool tournaments are not going to become an overnite success, It's a long row to hoe and the game will only advance in small increments.
 
Schmohawk said:
Why would a small group of gamblers play for their own money that they would then have to pay taxes on?. I doubt you could even find 6 players to post 10 Thousand each and then the prize would be $60,000? No one cares!

A big field then? You saw what happened with the Million Dollar tournament. They had less than 10 entries.

Pool tournaments are not going to become an overnite success, It's a long row to hoe and the game will only advance in small increments.
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As I said, the same format as poker, small field and sponsor. Half of the UK including old ladies love watching snooker, a game with long safety battles quite different to 9 Ball. It works for poker it can work for pool, there are similarities, its going to happen
 
TheOne said:
As I said, the same format as poker small field and sponsor. Half of the UK including old ladies love watching snooker, a game with long safety battles quite different to 9 Ball. It works for poker it can work for pool, there are similarities, its going to happen
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WTF? Poker has huge fields compared to pool and almost none are sponsored. And as seen this past WSOP, players playing less than one year have a chance against the best. How many pool players playing less than a year would make the final day of big pool tournament? None, That is why the field will never be big enough for big money prize from entries. I don't know nuttin about English Snooker but I bet the success didn't come overnite.
 
Schmohawk said:
WTF? Poker has huge fields compared to pool and almost none are sponsored. And as seen this past WSOP, players playing less than one year have a chance against the best. How many pool players playing less than a year would make the final day of big pool tournament? None, That is why the field will never be big enough for big money prize from entries. I don't know nuttin about English Snooker but I bet the success didn't come overnite.
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The poker what i've seen hasn't had huge fields, as this wouldn't work on TV, it would take for ever. Maybe you misunderstand me. I simply think that if you made a show with some of the best "Money Players" in the world putting up some of there own money with obviously the majority of the cash coming from sponsors/commercial revenue there would be a lot of main stream interest. As for over night success, I'm not sure who suggested it could happen over night but then I don't remember poker being on TV for hundreds of years? Anyway, pool success has been around for hundreds of years if it did become successful it would be long overdue. I just hope someone like Grady doesn't get put off by the doubters and keeps trying new things, this is the only way it will happen.
 
lewdo26 said:
Was Mike Sigel's famed 150 and out run against Zuglan in New York on tight equipment? I know it was played on a Gold Crown, but that might be my ignorance of table equipment. Sjm, if you'd allow me one more question, will be in NJ this upcoming weekend?
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Hey, Lewdo, hope all's well. Sigel's 150 and out in the 1992 US Open straight pool event was on 4 1/2 inch pockets. I was lucky enough to be there that night at the Roosevelt Hotel. Did you know that Zuglan ran a 148 on Ray Martin in his very next match? Also, one of the forgotten details of that truly classic night of straight pool was the fact that Willie Mosconi and Jimmy Caras sat together watching Sigel's run. Sadly, Willie died some months later, well before the 1993 US Open straight pool event was contested.

I'm not sure about this weekend's NJ straight Pool Event. I may be able to attend on Sunday, but it's very iffy. One thing that is for certain, though, is that I'll attend at least one session of the World Summit of Pool Event the subsequent weekend.
 
sjm said:
Hey, Lewdo, hope all's well. Sigel's 150 and out in the 1992 US Open straight pool event was on 4 1/2 inch pockets. I was lucky enough to be there that night at the Roosevelt Hotel. Did you know that Zuglan ran a 148 on Ray Martin in his very next match? Also, one of the forgotten details of that truly classic night of straight pool was the fact that Willie Mosconi and Jimmy Caras sat together watching Sigel's run. Sadly, Willie died some months later, well before the 1993 US Open straight pool event was contested.

I'm not sure about this weekend's NJ straight Pool Event. I may be able to attend on Sunday, but it's very iffy. One thing that is for certain, though, is that I'll attend at least one session of the World Summit of Pool Event the subsequent weekend.
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Where these matches race to 150? Not to belittle these runs but people have done much higher runs than 150. Just wondered what made these runs so famous?
 
TheOne said:
Where these matches race to 150? Not to belittle these runs but people have done much higher runs than 150. Just wondered what made these runs so famous?
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Yes, the races were to 150. Sigel and Zuglan were looking like the players to beat in the 1992 US Open. Each had played well and their matchup was greatly anticipated. More than a few were predicting a Zuglan victory, and most felt Sigel would have to bring his best game. The field was down to just a few and former world champions Dallas West and Ray Martin were still lurking. After Sigel's 150 and out on Zuglan in the first inning, Sigel cruised into the final, but Zuglan would ultimately face the daunting task of beating the two BCA Hall of Famers back to back to earn a rematch with Sigel. Mike appeared that he would run 150 and out on Ray Martin, but missed a tricky combo at 148, and won 150 - 5. Unfortunately, Dallas West would then polish off Zugaln in two innings to earn a berth in the final against Sigel.

What made these runs so famous is that they figured so prominently in deciding the 1992 title, ultimately won by Sigel the next day in an anticlimactic final, and that they were part of what may have been the most exciting night of straight pool competition in the game's history. Nobody who was there that night will ever forget it!
 
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sjm said:
Yes, the races were to 150. Sigel and Zuglan were looking like the players to beat in the 1992 US Open. Each had played well and their matchup was greatly anticipated. More than a few were predicting a Zuglan victory, and most felt Sigel would have to bring his best game. The field was down to just a few and former world champions Dallas West and Ray Martin were still lurking. After Sigel's 150 and out on Zuglan in the first inning, Sigel cruised into the final, but Zuglan would ultimately face the daunting task of beating the two BCA Hall of Famers back to back to earn a rematch with Sigel. Mike appeared that he would run 150 and out on Ray Martin, but missed a tricky combo at 148, and won 150 - 5. Unfortunately, Dallas West would then polish off Zugaln in two innings to earn a berth in the final against Sigel.

What made these runs so famous is that they figured so prominently in deciding the 1992 title, ultimately won by Sigel the next day in an anticlimactic final, and that they were part of what may have been the most exciting night of straight pool competition in the game's history. Nobody who was there that night will ever forget it!
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It sounds great, just curious but where nights like this televised back then or was the TV situation similar to what it is now? Great story though, would love to see more big time straight pool on TV. Sad to say but I've probably seen more straight pool in movies than on TV - crazy eh!

Of course a 150 run in those circumstances makes it even more special, although in a way it helps playing straight pool when it serious and you get in the zone. I find I break down in straight pool only when I take a shot for granted due to lack of concentration, hardly ever because I can't make the shot.
 
TheOne said:
It sounds great, just curious but where nights like this televised back then or was the TV situation similar to what it is now? Great story though, would love to see more big time straight pool on TV. Sad to say but I've probably seen more straight pool in movies than on TV - crazy eh!

Of course a 150 run in those circumstances makes it even more special, although in a way it helps playing straight pool when it serious and you get in the zone. I find I break down in straight pool only when I take a shot for granted due to lack of concentration, hardly ever because I can't make the shot.
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No, there was no television coverage, but Accustats sells both the Sigel-Zuglan and the Zuglan-Martin matches.

An amusing footnote to this is that both participating players get a small royalty when an Accustats tape of a match is sold. Sigel has always joked that it seems odd that Zuglan should get anything for Accustats sales of their famous match -- after all, Mike only lagged and broke!
 
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Interesting!

sjm said:
Hey, Lewdo, hope all's well. Sigel's 150 and out in the 1992 US Open straight pool event was on 4 1/2 inch pockets. I was lucky enough to be there that night at the Roosevelt Hotel. Did you know that Zuglan ran a 148 on Ray Martin in his very next match? Also, one of the forgotten details of that truly classic night of straight pool was the fact that Willie Mosconi and Jimmy Caras sat together watching Sigel's run. Sadly, Willie died some months later, well before the 1993 US Open straight pool event was contested.

I'm not sure about this weekend's NJ straight Pool Event. I may be able to attend on Sunday, but it's very iffy. One thing that is for certain, though, is that I'll attend at least one session of the World Summit of Pool Event the subsequent weekend.
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Hey, sjm. All is well with me, and I hope the same with you. That indeed, puts Sigel's run into perspective. Lucky you to have been there! I was trying to find the roster for the 14.1 US Opens online, but found nothing. Having Zuglan, Sigel, Ray Martin, Dallas West (weren't Nick Varner, and a very young Johnny Archer in it too?) playing, all the while enjoying the spectatorship of a Mosconi and a Caras, must have been a most electrifying, intergenerational experience! Twelve years later, most of these seminal figures are gone or inactive, and Grady (the always excellent commentator for the Sigel-Zuglan Accu-stats video) has trouble putting a straight pool tournment together! Well, time changes. And blessed are those with long memories.
I should be catching one night at the World Summit too, but that is all I can afford. Maybe I'll pick you from among the crowd.
 
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