Strategy For Lower Skill Levels

[Matt]

A couple nights ago at the pool room, I noticed a couple of weaker players practicing 10 ball. I know how they both play well enough to know that neither of them is likely to run out or take control or a game of 9 ball, but they have decided to move on to a more challenging game. Maybe the motivation was just to play the game they had recently seen some pros playing, but it still made me think about weak players, handicaps and strategic possibilities.

Consider a game of 9 ball from the perspective of a player that doesn't play well enough to run out from early in the rack. They are usually hoping for one of two things: their opponent to run out some of the rack and miss or to come to the table with a combo on the nine. Is it possible that their best chance of winning a game is to intentionally miss and leave their opponent a shot in hopes of getting back to the table later in the rack? If so, it stands to reason that such a strategy would actually be effective up to some point in the rack where an opponent's chance of running out or controlling a rack becomes greater than the chance that you are only helping them out by making balls. It sounds bizarre, but wouldn't it be funny to see a weak player win a tournament by intentionally dogging every shot up until the 5 ball? It would require some commitment and self-honesty, but I think it could work.

The opposite strategy applies to 8-ball. Weak players playing other weak players are usually best served by making a ball whenever they can so that they maximizes their chances at the 8 ball, whereas strong players know that they are better off not running out most of the table if they can't get all the way out.

Anyone else have or heard of other alternate strategies for different skill levels?

PS. I wonder if there's a point where you can spot someone enough in one pocket that an open break is the best course of action...

 

[The8reader]

HAHAHA this is great. i have noticed this as well. But this brings up a question for me.
DO THEY KNOW THEY ARE DOING IT?

but if they know they are doing it wouldent that make them a good player? or the Ultimate shark!!!! HAHA

 

[strmanglr scott]

This post has expired.

 

[pooljd]

Oh wow, what an interesting question! Maybe they're just two players having fun, have you considered it? By your logic is it better for "bad" players to just play rotation with 1-3 object balls?

Even if they were semi-serious amateur league players (like me), the more (different) games you play, the more things you discover about your own game, strategy and general knowledge just by looking at the opponents way of thinking. I play decent 8-ball and 14.1 and hate 9 ball. I still play occasional bank pool / one-pocket and snooker just to discover something new and for FUN even though I suck at them.

 

[Meezer Girl]

My Reason

I'm predominantly a BIH 8 ball player. Early on after I learned to run a few balls & had a good idea where the CB was going I would use 9 ball practice to help me get control of the CB and work on patterns because of having to get to a specific ball next. I would break then take BIH & try to figure the best pattern through the rack. It also helped my speed control.

Then I started to learn english :yikes:

Still use 9 ball (or now 10 ball) to "test" what I can & can not do with english.

I am also learning 1P & I really like all the decisions that have to be made quickly on every shot.

After all - MUST control cue ball whatever you're playing :smile:

 

[brandoncook26]

It's funny you mention it. When I started playing, I distinctly remember two guys telling me that they would put me at the table early in the rack because they knew I would only be able to run out one out of twenty times or so.

I also remember when one of those same guys told me they couldn't let me at the table at all anymore because I was likely to run out. That felt pretty good when I realized that I had jumped over him in skill.

I think missing on purpose would be bad for someone's overall game and improvement, especially if they are a lower skill level. However, I think if you did so and knew your opponent wouldn't be able to run out, it would be a successful strategy for winning in the short-term.

I see a lot of guys playing 10 ball that I would give huge odds on not running a rack of 9 ball. I agree that everyone should play different games to understand strategies and learn, but this would be the exception. I can beat the 9 ball ghost and I still feel sometimes like 10 ball is too frustrating.

 

[West Point 1987]

I'm not sure I understand........

Well.....first of all, 10 ball is a different game...just because someone can't run three balls in a rotation game doesn't mean they can't play any rotation game with more than (let's say) 6 balls? The first game I ever learned to play was straight rotation (ala the Filipino game, which actually originated here, but sailors apparently loved it, so it ended up over there)...my Grandpa (an old sailor) taught me the game when I was 9 years old and we played it right up until he died 10 years ago...I guess I should have started with 6 ball, moved up to 7, then 9 before I was worthy of playing 10 ball? Playing rotation with all 15 balls on the table, complete with face value scoring, rollouts and spot fouls, etc. made me a much better player in all rotation games early on. Running through straight rotation racks is still my mainstay for practice sessions, it forces me to use my whole game. If I'm working on pattern games (one pocket, 14.1, 8 ball) I prefer rack after rack of 14.1 or 8 ball...but still throw at least one rack of straight rotation in the mix.

As to missing intentionally early in the inning, banking on the odds that they will get another shot before the rack is run is called a safety, IIRC...The one thing that weaker players do that drive me nuts (in either rotation or pattern games) is that they have a tendency to screw up a perfect table layout by smacking everything all over the place!

 

[lorider]

Well.....first of all, 10 ball is a different game...just because someone can't run three balls in a rotation game doesn't mean they can't play any rotation game with more than (let's say) 6 balls? The first game I ever learned to play was straight rotation (ala the Filipino game, which actually originated here, but sailors apparently loved it, so it ended up over there)...my Grandpa (an old sailor) taught me the game when I was 9 years old and we played it right up until he died 10 years ago...I guess I should have started with 6 ball, moved up to 7, then 9 before I was worthy of playing 10 ball? Playing rotation with all 15 balls on the table, complete with face value scoring, rollouts and spot fouls, etc. made me a much better player in all rotation games early on. Running through straight rotation racks is still my mainstay for practice sessions, it forces me to use my whole game. If I'm working on pattern games (one pocket, 14.1, 8 ball) I prefer rack after rack of 14.1 or 8 ball...but still throw at least one rack of straight rotation in the mix.

As to missing intentionally early in the inning, banking on the odds that they will get another shot before the rack is run is called a safety, IIRC...The one thing that weaker players do that drive me nuts (in either rotation or pattern games) is that they have a tendency to screw up a perfect table layout by smacking everything all over the place!

your last sentence describes my gf perfectly. she is an apa s/l 3. she may make a straight in shot 50% of the time without missing or scratching, has no idea what cueball control means lol.

i have tried to teach her some things but she takes it as me criticizing her game so i quit trying to teach her.

last week i was faced with having to play either a s/l 7 who i have never beat or a darn good 5 who i have beat a few times. btw i am a 5.

well i am thinking my gf cannot not beat either one and it is unlikely i can beat the 7 and can probably beat the 5. so when they threw the 7 1st i threw my gf.

well lo and behold my gf won. btw this was in 9 ball. my gf would make 1 or 2 then miss. leaving the 7 the 7 hooked. my gf would get bih and make 1 or 2 again leaving the 7 hooked. it went on the whole match with my gf winning 18-54. the 7 was muttering and waving his arms around saying i cant believe this shit every time she left him hooked.

she was smiling and saying i beat a 7 !, i beat a 7 !.

i wanted to tell her that her poor cue ball control helped her to beat him , but then that would have been criticizing her so i just did not say anything.

i hate playing lower level players for the above reason. i was beat by a 2 onetime for the same reason as the 7 above lost. it really irked me bad to lose to a 2:frown:

 

[krupa]

Maybe they're thinking that since 10-ball is a call-shot game, it would help them. I know when I first started playing I resisted playing call-shot 8-ball but my friends insisted and I saw a jump in my game almost instantly because I was forced to aim if I wanted to stay at the table.

Personally, I think players are done a disservice by slop rules.

 

[Matt]

dogging shots is a dangerous theory regardless of skill. I'm guessing they are just missing. It's so easy to play a safe early in a nine ball game, even for a lower skill player.

I agree that intentionally dogging shots without playing safe will only get you so far. I just thought it was interesting to consider that it may be the best play for some players in some situations. For a weak player, playing safe and getting ball in hand doesn't really help since they'd still have to run the rack or continue a pattern of running balls and playing safe until they got out. As you've pointed out, it's easy to play safe early in a nine ball game, but not as much later in the game.

 

[Matt]

Well.....first of all, 10 ball is a different game...just because someone can't run three balls in a rotation game doesn't mean they can't play any rotation game with more than (let's say) 6 balls? The first game I ever learned to play was straight rotation (ala the Filipino game, which actually originated here, but sailors apparently loved it, so it ended up over there)...my Grandpa (an old sailor) taught me the game when I was 9 years old and we played it right up until he died 10 years ago...I guess I should have started with 6 ball, moved up to 7, then 9 before I was worthy of playing 10 ball? Playing rotation with all 15 balls on the table, complete with face value scoring, rollouts and spot fouls, etc. made me a much better player in all rotation games early on. Running through straight rotation racks is still my mainstay for practice sessions, it forces me to use my whole game. If I'm working on pattern games (one pocket, 14.1, 8 ball) I prefer rack after rack of 14.1 or 8 ball...but still throw at least one rack of straight rotation in the mix.

As to missing intentionally early in the inning, banking on the odds that they will get another shot before the rack is run is called a safety, IIRC...The one thing that weaker players do that drive me nuts (in either rotation or pattern games) is that they have a tendency to screw up a perfect table layout by smacking everything all over the place!

I agree that 10 ball is a different game the way it is supposed to be played, but the players I was talking about were just playing it as 9 ball with an extra ball. In any case, I wasn't criticizing their decision to play any particular game using whatever rules they want; I just included the story to say that it inspired me to think about rotation/money ball game strategy for players that can't run out.

Most players I know wouldn't consider an intentional miss where you try to leave your opponent a good shot a safety. When I think of a safety, I think about shots where the goal is to force my opponent to miss the shot I leave them. Missing intentionally and leaving a shot is more along the lines of what I'd call strategy.

 

[Maniac]

your last sentence describes my gf perfectly. she is an apa s/l 3.

it went on the whole match with my gf winning 18-54. the 7 was muttering and waving his arms around saying i cant believe this shit every time she left him hooked.

Are you sure that score wasn't 25-54? You say your gf is an apa s/l 3, and the league you describe in your post sounds very much like an APA league. If this is the case, as a SL3, your gf would have had to score 25 points to win. And....wow, was THAT a close game or what???

Maniac

 

[Maniac]

I agree that 10 ball is a different game the way it is supposed to be played, but the players I was talking about were just playing it as 9 ball with an extra ball. In any case, I wasn't criticizing their decision to play any particular game using whatever rules they want; I just included the story to say that it inspired me to think about rotation/money ball game strategy for players that can't run out.

Most players I know wouldn't consider an intentional miss where you try to leave your opponent a good shot a safety. When I think of a safety, I think about shots where the goal is to force my opponent to miss the shot I leave them. Missing intentionally and leaving a shot is more along the lines of what I'd call strategy.

Matt,

Believe it or not, but I have seen very good players (yes, even some pros) not so much "dog" a shot, but more like not 100% commit to a shot because the next ball is tied-up with another with no possible way to break it open (and by making the shot he/she didn't "commit" to and having to hit the next ball in order (that was tied-up), would've sold out the rack). I even heard a "pro" player, after missing a shot one time, mutter as he came from the table that he didn't want any part of a ball that was clustered with some others (insinuating he'd rather have his opponent deal with it).

Not common cases, but they DO happen every once in a while. Sometimes in rare instances, it's just smarter pool to give up the table and let your opponent deal with it, especially if you've got one of those "gung-ho" type of opponents that will make attempts at difficult break-outs.

Maniac

 

[JolietJames]

I know you weren't bashing them too hard but I think those players should play whatever game keeps them interested in the game.
As far as the intentional dogging goes, it's not a bad strategy for someone who isn't trying to get any better at the game. I figure half the time the low level player is gonna come back to the table hooked or with a tough shot after their opponent missed anyway. I'd rather my opponent spent the least amount of time at the table so they don't get the whacks at the nine or the safety miss etc. The low level guy could whack at the cheese every time I guess while waiting for the opponent to run out and miss. Lots of strategies there I suppose.

 

[Matt]

Believe it or not, but I have seen very good players (yes, even some pros) not so much "dog" a shot, but more like not 100% commit to a shot because the next ball is tied-up with another with no possible way to break it open (and by making the shot he/she didn't "commit" to and having to hit the next ball in order (that was tied-up), would've sold out the rack). I even heard a "pro" player, after missing a shot one time, mutter as he came from the table that he didn't want any part of a ball that was clustered with some others (insinuating he'd rather have his opponent deal with it).

Not common cases, but they DO happen every once in a while. Sometimes in rare instances, it's just smarter pool to give up the table and let your opponent deal with it, especially if you've got one of those "gung-ho" type of opponents that will make attempts at difficult break-outs.

Maniac,

I've been guilty of doing that (not committing 100%), but it's almost always the case that I could have done something more productive with the shot than just miss. If I'm playing seriously and see that I want my opponent to deal with a cluster, I try to do something to swing it even more in my favor before turning over the table.

I can't rule it out entirely, but it seems to me that a situation where the best play for a high caliber player is to just dog a ball would be very rare. Weird stuff happens though, so I can't rule it out... Just last week I gave my opponent BIH after pushing the balls into a position where he couldn't possibly make a good hit on the next ball. Those types of games get interesting pretty quickly. :smile:

 

[Matt]

The low level guy could whack at the cheese every time I guess while waiting for the opponent to run out and miss.

I've played plenty of those opponents in tournaments before. It's especially frustrating to lose when you're giving someone games on the wire and a ball or two and they win by swinging at a money ball any time it's even close to a pocket. I suppose that's a better strategy than just intentionally missing though...