Strategy Ideas?

M

MacGyver

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
here was situation:
http://CueTable.com/P/?@3HQWh3MQSG1PCSO3QaQa3cQWh3cSys3hQSG3hVtk3hbaE3hbaA1kCSO3kPsu3kbOM3laQa3lPAT3lLpk3qURpMy_Shot:_hit_13_into_rail_trying_for_safety&&ZZ3rOrJHis_Shot:_Safety_off_8&&ZZ@

I am stripes, down to a table length shot nearly on rail, DEAD straight in so follow would scratch and I'd have to draw way more than a table length including a rail to get position on the 8.

I saw my options as either:
1: Kill it and one-rail the 8.
2: Shoot it half-table length away *really* jacked up to get enough draw to pull it back more than a table length.
3: The safety I shot.

I messed up the safety a bit which gave the guy an easy snooker off the eight and so I ended up having to kick at the 13(which is one the rail) and it was left rattling in the pocket yielding a loss for me.

Any ideas on what I should have done, what you would have done or other options I didnt consider?
 
MacGyver said:
Any ideas on what I should have done, what you would have done or other options I didnt consider?
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What rules? In APA, if I was up I'd take a chance and try the kick. If you can legally make a ball and call a safety you could've done that but then he could've saftied you back, just leaving you a hard bank. It's a tough call. With a little roll your 13 might've snookered his eight as you were trying to do. But if he would've kicked at the 8 he probably would've at least hit it, leaving you tough on the 13. Looks like one of those games that could end up with 9-10 innings. ;)
 
I like potting it and calling safe. I also like potting it and slow rolling forward for a tough cut on the 8, not sure quite how straight the shot is. I don't like safeties at that point in the game. Otherwise I don't think you did too badly with your shot choice. Even though you ended up taking the worst of it, I think he had to hit the 8 pretty well to snooker you.
 
How about about a 1/8 to 1/4 ball hit on the left side of the 13, bringing the CB two rails back to about it's current location.

Must hit the OB thin enough to avoid the possible double kiss. It might even come out far enough off the rail to hide the 8 and make the opponent kick at it.

In these circumstances, I always try to leave my opponent the longest shot possible with the CB as close to a rail as possible.
 
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Make the ball, force follow near corner, you can usually still steal a little angle and avoid the scratch. Slow rolling will kill you most of the time IMHO. GADawg's safety is my preference, if I play one.
 
3 follow ups:
this was at a weekly APA league(I know), so no calling safes.

The shot was DEAD straight in, even if I nailed it break speed I doubt I could have gotten more than an inch over. I could cheat the pocket *slightly* to the left(as going right and hard would cause reverse spin and would kick the ball out), but cheating left would only move me 2-3in on the wrong side of the 8.

Yes he was a 6/7 so the hit on eight was very precise to hide the 13.
 
MacGyver said:
3 follow ups:
this was at a weekly APA league(I know), so no calling safes.

The shot was DEAD straight in, even if I nailed it break speed I doubt I could have gotten more than an inch over. I could cheat the pocket *slightly* to the left(as going right and hard would cause reverse spin and would kick the ball out), but cheating left would only move me 2-3in on the wrong side of the 8.

Yes he was a 6/7 so the hit on eight was very precise to hide the 13.
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Especially if you can at all cheat it left, I like following for inside shape -- ifyou can hit any part of the long rail after making the 13 then you'll get decent shape. If not, then you'll have a reasonable bank-safe if you come up short (i.e., sending the 8 ball either 1 or 2 rails up to the head rail on the other end of the table).

Also of note, if you try for inside shape and end up with a tough cut, it will likely be a pretty safe shot as the CB will naturally go to the head rail and, if you miss the 8B, it will probably head back toward the middle part of the foot rail.

Cory
 
I don;t like the safety option.

If you're playing someone that can play a lil, the safe ain't too safe. Even if you hook him from hitting the 8 directly, the kick into the corner pocket isn't that tough. Your opponent should have taken the kick after your safe. If he kicks at the 8 with a soft stroke, he can make the 8 or leave you with a tough cut/bank up table to get out.

Personally, I like the stop shot on the 13, concentrate on making the ball and then, take the kick on the 8 into the corner pocket. Kick it firm. You want to clear the 8 outta there in case you miss.


Eric
 
I thought of GADawg's saftey too, but I'd add that I'd play it with left english to help bring the CB back to the top left of the table, and to help prevent a kiss.

I'd be aiming for the double on the 13, but calling it as a safe in case it goes.

I just played the shot a few times and the angle is perfect for getting the 13 over the pocket (1/4 ball hit) and bringind the white around. Though on my first attempt I scratched into the top left corner.

Colin
 
I don't understand

You stated 'no safes' but you shot a safe on the 13? or is that no safes on the 8 ball only?

It's obvious, your touch and go safety was a little too much touch and go.
You bank the 13 cross corner, shooting it short on purpose, and take the cue ball with low left english 2 rails to 1 diamond up on the head end rail from where the cue ball started. It requires some pretty good spin to get the cue ball to the proper place on the 2nd rail it comes off of.

If you leave the cue ball where I said to leave it, he has no bank that is lined up, and the cut shot is harder than a dried up cow patty, plus your 13 is down by the 8 if he shoots soft.
 
Eric. said:
I don;t like the safety option.

If you're playing someone that can play a lil, the safe ain't too safe. Even if you hook him from hitting the 8 directly, the kick into the corner pocket isn't that tough. Your opponent should have taken the kick after your safe. If he kicks at the 8 with a soft stroke, he can make the 8 or leave you with a tough cut/bank up table to get out.

Personally, I like the stop shot on the 13, concentrate on making the ball and then, take the kick on the 8 into the corner pocket. Kick it firm. You want to clear the 8 outta there in case you miss.


Eric
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If you play the stop shot, I'd think banking it back would be a higher percentage shot than the kick. That kick's very easy if the CB is lower on the table so that the approach and return angles are shallow. It's a lot tougher when the angle is wide, like it would be from the stop shot position.

I still say go for inside shape. If you come up short and don't like the bank-safe, then you'll be in position for an easier kick than you would be by playing the stop shot.

Cory
 
Snapshot9 said:
You stated 'no safes' but you shot a safe on the 13? or is that no safes on the 8 ball only?
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I think it means, you can play safe, but if you pocket a ball, you have to shoot again.

Tracy
 
Cory in DC said:
If you play the stop shot, I'd think banking it back would be a higher percentage shot than the kick. That kick's very easy if the CB is lower on the table so that the approach and return angles are shallow. It's a lot tougher when the angle is wide, like it would be from the stop shot position.

I still say go for inside shape. If you come up short and don't like the bank-safe, then you'll be in position for an easier kick than you would be by playing the stop shot.

Cory
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Point taken, but I think playing to roll the CB up is mroe of a preference, but not a higher percentage shot.

When I'm a little nervous on a crucial shot, I don't prefer to roll the cb on a line that could scratch. Personally, the kick from the stop shot position isn't that toug. The 8 ball is slightly off the rail and the CB will stop on the same line as the OB. I would divide the angle and hit it with a little running inglese. If you come up a touch long, the CB can come off the end rail and still make the 8.


Eric
 
Cory in DC said:
Especially if you can at all cheat it left, I like following for inside shape -- ifyou can hit any part of the long rail after making the 13 then you'll get decent shape. If not, then you'll have a reasonable bank-safe if you come up short (i.e., sending the 8 ball either 1 or 2 rails up to the head rail on the other end of the table).

Also of note, if you try for inside shape and end up with a tough cut, it will likely be a pretty safe shot as the CB will naturally go to the head rail and, if you miss the 8B, it will probably head back toward the middle part of the foot rail.

Cory
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I agree that this is the shot. If you can cheat the 13 a touch left at the far pocket facing, then you go toward the long rail with the CB, and you'll end up with a shot, even if it's tough. It's your best chance to win, and I think you become a better player by trusting yourself to get out when there's an out available than by giving up the table and hoping to get an easier shot. Of course if your chance to get out is unreasonably low, you have to play the safe, but I don't think this out is unreasonable.

I disagree with you about the likelihood of leaving a safe if you miss the tough cut, though. If I miss a tough cut like this one, it's generally left hanging in the pocket. A miss is likely to hit the short rail, catch the far point of the pocket, and bobble. Either that, or undercut a little more, hit the short rail further from the pocket, the long rail above the pocket, and out for an easy cut in the corner from just about anywhere on the table. It's very unlikely to have it bounce out and sit on the short rail where there's not an easy cut shot available.

-Andrew
 
Snapshot is right on with his suggestion. But my luck i would make the dang 13 then be tryin to figure out how to pocket the 8 off my safety attempt.
 
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