stroke critique: video

[Solartje]

Just excellent these post. i honestly didnt think i would learn alot of it, but its above any expectations. thank u VERY much guys.

i know excatly what u say with 'stepping' to the table. i used to look alot of snooker on tv before on the BBC. only ballgame i could see on tv before internet etc. they all do it. i just have to close my eyes, and see those smooth aproach to the table, en bending (instead of my letting my body fall where it feels good) down the shot. ill just think of that image everytime i finished a shot and prepare for the next one. plz dont ask me to wear a tutu doing this new pooldanse next time u see me on video

skins, i agree. my pattern play probably isnt the best, but now its basic that im working on and mike page's post was just so excellent (best comment on a post ive ever had) i hope my basics will be covered soon, so i can start training those breakballs.

 

[PoolSharkAllen]

"Harnessing" and "releasing" (which implies prior confinement) are dominance-based Western myths. A mere man does not control the forces of the universe.

The Zen Cueism adept harmonizes his chi (life force) with that of the universe. Then the pool player, cue, balls, table, and target pocket all become One - and one can hardly miss one's self.

"If you are always wondering about the target or the result, nothing good can be accomplished. If you always look at yourself first - your own feet, your own basis, then things will naturally go right." ~ Kanjuro Shibata, Kyudo (Zen Archery) Master.

You gotta pay attention to the emoticons. I was joking with my comment.

 

[Scott Lee]

Just excellent these post. i honestly didnt think i would learn alot of it, but its above any expectations. thank u VERY much guys.

i know excatly what u say with 'stepping' to the table. i used to look alot of snooker on tv before on the BBC. only ballgame i could see on tv before internet etc. they all do it. i just have to close my eyes, and see those smooth aproach to the table, en bending (instead of my letting my body fall where it feels good) down the shot. ill just think of that image everytime i finished a shot and prepare for the next one. plz dont ask me to wear a tutu doing this new pooldanse next time u see me on video

skins, i agree. my pattern play probably isnt the best, but now its basic that im working on and mike page's post was just so excellent (best comment on a post ive ever had) i hope my basics will be covered soon, so i can start training those breakballs.

Solartje...I would agree with some of the observations of others, and it's difficult to spot some things from the angle of the camera. We, as teachers, need to see our students from several angles to spot inconsistencies. That said, one thing stood out to me from watching your videos. On most shots, you do not seem to be finishing the swing. You have the basic pendulum movement, but don't appear to be letting the cue come to a natural finish position. By this, I mean that it looks like you are unintentionally (or intentionally) stopping the cue on your forward stroke, before it reaches the end of your natural swing. This was apparent to me on many shots that I watched on your videos. What causes this generally is a tightening of your grip near the end of the stroke. Sometimes this shows up as a kind of "pull back" motion, with the tip of the cue. Whenever there is a conscious, or unconscious thought about pulling the tip back (frequently seen in many players with a poor draw stroke, for example), generally the cue is not getting to the natural end of the swing. This confuses your brain, and doesn't help to ingrain good fundamentals. With a pendulum swing, at the natural end of your stroke, your grip hand will be on or very near your chest. The tip will be on or very near the cloth, and a certain repeatable distance past where the CB was sitting, regardless of where you aim on the CB (test this by placing the CB on the spot, and letting the cue swing naturally through it...see how far past the CB your swing naturally goes, and concentrate on "seeing" this, while you are shooting). This is just the natural way your arm works, with this type of simple movement. There will typically be zero or near zero bicep flex during the forward stroke, and especially at the conclusion of the swing. Think of it as similar to curling a lightweight dumbell. There is slight grip pressure at the beginning (where your arm is outstretched), so that you don't drop the weight out of your hand. The most muscle pressure (via grip and bicep) occurs midway through the curl. Then the muscle relaxes again, as the weight finishes with your hand at or near your shoulder. Now think of of this in terms of the swing. The beginning of the stroke would be when the cue is at the furthest point of your backswing, and you are making the transition to a forward, accelerated stroke. There will be slight pressure at contact with the CB, and then relaxing the muscle, to allow a natural finish position to occur. Now you just have to connect this to your timing on the pre-shot routine, and the start of the committment backswing.

As far as one-stroking, on your warm up, many posters said negative things about this. I don't necessarily agree. It's okay to one-stroke, as long as you have the pause at the CB, before you commit to begin the final stroke...which you do, on most shots. This pause at the CB allows your brain to catch up with your hands and your eyes (which are ready to shoot, as soon as you put your bridge hand down on the table). The pause is also when you mentally confirm the shooting decisions that you make standing up, before you begin your preshot routine (where am I aiming on the CB; where am I aiming on the OB; what speed am I shooting; and what CB position do I reasonably expect to attain). This takes one second, for your brain to adjust, and go. This 'one-stroke and go' may be very natural for you, and that's the most important thing. Sure, many players, myself included, prefer 2or 3 warm-up swings...but what works for you is okay, provided you do it the exact same way for every shot.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

 

[Solartje]

thx for your post scott.

ill reread it some times, to be sure im getting all what is being said. there still is a difference between understanding it, and 'understanding' it.

anyway, i had my first team competition today, and ive been thinking on some things that have been said. i cant include them ALL in my game just in one day. to much for my brain to think of consciously, and thats not something u want when ur playing competition. but with the limit acces to training ive got, i just did it.

the stepping to the table helped amazingly. ive added a special breathing thing. i cant really explain it, just something that i know works when im VERY nervous.

so i now stand in the line of the shot, im around 2 steps away of the table. i take a deep breath and use this special breathing out thingy (in fact i use my stomach to push the air out.. no idea why its working but it does). i then bend down slowly. take my 1-3 strokes, pauze and finish. well my potting became even better. i know im a pritty descent potter. there's no real shot that scares me, or that i feel im not starting to master.

one example. had the cb at 3" from the endrail, the ob completly other way of the table. its a straight in long distance stop shot. i played it at a high pace, (because the tables where so crappy, if u played them slow u could see the ball go in S line insteand of I line to the pockets), and the cb dropped DEATH right after inpact. no movement to the left of right. the negative side, is as im taking longer to shoot, its harder to get into the zone (maybe the fact that i was playing first team match ever made it harder to zone in. but thats something ill see on the long term. im not expecting to be zoning in as soon as before, with a brand new preshot routine.)

about the complete the swing, stay down longer, better aligment (due to the preshot) really makes every movement feel like silk. its smooth. its like the cue is playing in my place.

ps i lost both matches. 31-50 in straight, missed one breakball, and missed one keyball. was enough to lose the match. also lost 2-4 in 8b, but overall i have nothing to complain. i came to learn and aply things to my basics. and my poting is just spot on. im not a bragger kind of person, in contrary. but my strongest part (my potting, now even became better.) it still frustrates me when i lose vs a guy, where i can only see BAD things in his stroke. crooked arm, head poping, wrong bridge lengt. etccc but i just got to focus on this: ill be starting with the perfect basics. its an investment, that ill just have to be patient , before i can really see difference in the amount of matches i win.

ill continue to play like this for some time, add maybe some other things that have been said. (ill stick to the one stroke, sorry guys the less i think about my mechanics, the better i play. (Yes ive got to think about them consciously now to earn them, but in the long time, they should become second nature.) I wish i could post a quick video of the adjustments, but ull have to wait a couple of days.

thx all for all the help. if someone has any other thing to add, feel free.

good night all, and thank you very much for helping me becoming a better player.

ps about the swing. u are right. its something ive noticed myself some time ago (after the video was made) and im working on it. after seeing efren (even if his stroke is totally different then mine), his cue is still on the table, even after removing this bridge hand. ive tried it, and it feels right. im doing it now. the reason why i didnt finish my swings, was (as u have mentioned) that my grip on the cue is to tight. (probably because of some sorth of fear that the cue would be trown on the table if i didnt hold it strong enough. (wich made my draw shots horrible). ive changed it to a more gentle grip 3fingers and the others not grippping, just caressing. ive made a 2 full table lenght draw shot today effortless. so thats being taken care off its funny, when i see the comments all have posted, its like uve been watching me for years u know my game so well.

ps2: i think ill have to watch some of ronnie o sulivan's mechanics and preshot routine. ronnie is like me a very fast 1 stroke player, but he still has excellent preshot routine. i know many try to copy efren's style, or busta's break etc. but i know right from the start thats not in my nature. neither is Tony drago's game a good example for me.

do u think ronnie would be a good example to watch? and that his preshotroutine and mechanics would be easily adjustable to my playing style?

 

[Gabber]

what i had: Very fast thinking, 1 addressing stroke and fast shooting.
what i tried: Very slow thinking. taking my time around the table, running around , different angles etc. but that just made it impossible for me to get in the zone. i lose confidence when im not potting, and just watching (im a mental case). when i then decide to chose, i just cant feel the table anymore.
what i tried: very slow shooting. 3-4 addressing strokes. this is what my brain does:
on stroke1: yup, this feels about right
stroke2: just making sure..
stroke3: mmm maybe the deflection will be a bit higher.
stroke4: mm maybe JUST adjust it a bit.
stroke5: i stand up again.
time in between: my confidence is totally gone.

what im going to try. take more time at the beginning of the game. right after the break. take average time in between shots. walk to opposite side, and back and shoot. and on the shot itself. just 1 addressing stroke filled with confidence

One thing is for certain- you need help!.

You have it good stroke and a feel for potting balls but you are thinking too much.

Just because you miss an easy ball doesn't mean that there is something wrong with your technique. What you miss is method, find a good instructor.

Gabber

 

[Solartje]

"Just because you miss an easy ball doesn't mean that there is something wrong with your technique"

"you are thinking too much"

aarf how can u say it so simple and be so spot on

i am a perfectionist :s i pleat guilthy. when i used to play recreational snooker for a some time, i didnt think. it was just a fun pass timer. i switched to pool when i had some rough times. in snooker i couldnt SLAM the balls, in pool i could really SLAM them in, rather then slaming in someone's face. (im skinny so that was the smarter way to deal with anger). when i was mad, i didnt think AT ALL, and thats when i play my best pool.

since ive started reading books, watching instructional dvd's, reading this forums, my first reaction was WOW!! ive got to use my brain too , and now my brain seems to work on nitro 24/7. i CAN't shut it off. maybe thats why the quick play become natural to me i guess to counter it a bit. ive got to find the right balance in between thinking (conscious and unconsious) and feel. easy said if i could do that, id be playing twice as good. but at least ill have a goal in front of me. achieving that balance. looking forward to it.

Bedankt gabber

 

[Gabber]

"Just because you miss an easy ball doesn't mean that there is something wrong with your technique"

"you are thinking too much"

aarf how can u say it so simple and be so spot on

i am a perfectionist :s i pleat guilthy. when i used to play recreational snooker for a some time, i didnt think. it was just a fun pass timer. i switched to pool when i had some rough times. in snooker i couldnt SLAM the balls, in pool i could really SLAM them in, rather then slaming in someone's face. (im skinny so that was the smarter way to deal with anger). when i was mad, i didnt think AT ALL, and thats when i play my best pool.

since ive started reading books, watching instructional dvd's, reading this forums, my first reaction was WOW!! ive got to use my brain too , and now my brain seems to work on nitro 24/7. i CAN't shut it off. maybe thats why the quick play become natural to me i guess to counter it a bit. ive got to find the right balance in between thinking (conscious and unconsious) and feel. easy said if i could do that, id be playing twice as good. but at least ill have a goal in front of me. achieving that balance. looking forward to it.

Bedankt gabber

Concentration is having one thought.

A player's game is like a house . You build it brick by brick and the higher the house the stronger the foundations need to be. Try and build a tall house on weak foundations and it will eventually fall down.
There are no quick fixes.
Gabber

 

[Dhakala]

Dhakala, are you that guy from the Accustats bloopers video that's playing a pro, and you start doing all this weird fung shui stuff with your hands over the table, like you are some kung fu master? I think the guy was wearing a hat. It was really funny.

No, I'm the other guy in that game.

Funny you mention videos. Tonight, my son and I watched Bert Kinister's # 60, "The $100 Video," which is actually priced at $100 and contains "the $500.00 lesson plus more shotmaking, position, and safety knowledge ever put on 1 video before."

About halfway through it, I turned to Tony and said,

"Y'know, we oughta get a digital video camera and DVD burner. Shave our heads, sew saffron togas, and make sandals out of bamboo. Bet we'd make a killing on eBay."

 

[Dhakala]

You gotta pay attention to the emoticons. I was joking with my comment.

I know, and I was using your joke to teach the Four-Bank Path to Enlightenment and Correct Thinking. Thank you!

 

[Dhakala]

Concentration is having one thought.

Concentration is, "direction of attention to a single object," which should be the ball that one wishes to pocket. If one concentrates upon a thought (or many) in one's mind behind one's eyes, then one will miss what's right in front of one.

A player's game is like a house . You build it brick by brick and the higher the house the stronger the foundations need to be. Try and build a tall house on weak foundations and it will eventually fall down.

A more apt analogy to pool is an aqueduct, a channel built to direct water from one place to another. Pour a seamless, one-piece aqueduct of concrete and there will be no leaks. Try to create an aqueduct by cobbling stones together without mortar and your water will go astray.

In pool, one builds the channel that one wishes the balls to follow with one's thought. Then, one releases one chi (life force) and, like rushing water sweeping leaves along, it carries the balls where you desire.

The moment of releasing chi - during which the final stroke of the cue is made - is thoughtless. Just as an aqueduct must be completed before water is released to flow along it, so all thought must be completed before one's chi is released to carry the balls where you want them to go.

 

[Ronoh]

Finally!!!

someone who understands.

 

[recoveryjones]

Concentration is, "direction of attention to a single object," which should be the ball that one wishes to pocket. If one concentrates upon a thought (or many) in one's mind behind one's eyes, then one will miss what's right in front of one.



A more apt analogy to pool is an aqueduct, a channel built to direct water from one place to another. Pour a seamless, one-piece aqueduct of concrete and there will be no leaks. Try to create an aqueduct by cobbling stones together without mortar and your water will go astray.

In pool, one builds the channel that one wishes the balls to follow with one's thought. Then, one releases one chi (life force) and, like rushing water sweeping leaves along, it carries the balls where you desire.

The moment of releasing chi - during which the final stroke of the cue is made - is thoughtless. Just as an aqueduct must be completed before water is released to flow along it, so all thought must be completed before one's chi is released to carry the balls where you want them to go.

That's deep stuff, however, I really like it.Good Post.

OUOTE:
"The moment of releasing chi - during which the final stroke of the cue is made - is thoughtless."

I've experienced deadstroke a half dozen times or so where I just couldn't miss.My mind was free of all clutter and basically "thoughtless" as ball after ball disappeared in the pockets.

The question is, is how does one bring on deadstroke?
RJ

 

[thoffen]

Your problem is in your decision making and the trust of your decision making. Your mechanics and routine aren't textbook but they're clearly good enough to make an accurate trustworthy stroke. When you know your intent and are confident in it, you stay down and follow through cleanly.

Instead of trying to pace yourself, following a routine, etc. etc. which will only make you more aware of the shortcomings in your thought process, block all that out of your mind. Focus 100% on the table, the pattern, the precision. When you know all the variables, it makes it easy to execute. By trying to go through a higher mental process to figure out if you know all the variables, you'll inevitably forget something and make yourself even less confident. Just be precise and focus everything you can on the table and not on your approach. Keep visualizing all the details and let them dictate your speed.

 

[Dhakala]

someone who understands.

Many understand without being able to put it into words. I write for a living (as far as the IRS knows), so I have developed a little bit of an edge there.

 

[Gabber]

Concentration is, "direction of attention to a single object," that's one definition which should be the ball that one wishes to pocket. If one concentrates upon a thought (or many) in one's mind behind one's eyes, then one will miss what's right in front of one. OK, I'm concentrating on the 9 ball. Now what?



A more apt analogy to pool is an aqueduct, a channel built to direct water from one place to another. Pour a seamless, one-piece aqueduct of concrete and there will be no leaks. Try to create an aqueduct by cobbling stones together without mortar and your water will go astray. So one day, this aqueduct suddenly appeared out of nowhere?r

In pool, one builds the channel that one wishes the balls to follow with one's thought. Then, one releases one chi (life force) and, like rushing water sweeping leaves along, it carries the balls where you desire.
Easy to say, difficult to do. Especially when its game ball and your knees are weak, your palms are sweaty and your heart is pounding. In those situations you have to rely on your technique.

The moment of releasing chi - during which the final stroke of the cue is made - is thoughtless. Just as an aqueduct must be completed before water is released to flow along it, so all thought must be completed before one's chi is released to carry the balls where you want them to go.

Thoughtless, that's exactly it. There I can agree with you. When you hit that Qball you shouldn't be aware of being thinking about anything. Its a different state of mind, some call it the zone. You would call it zen, maybe.

I have done tai chi and I am basically with you but in pool you need more than chi .

Gabber

 

[Dhakala]

Gabber says, in the midst of my musings:

"Easy to say, difficult to do. Especially when its game ball and your knees are weak, your palms are sweaty and your heart is pounding."

Why would one be in such distress while experiencing Enlightenment?

"I have done tai chi and I am basically with you but in pool you need more than chi ."

What more is there than chi?

 

[bruin70]

this is just you practicing on a table for the fun of it, so you may not be taking all the shots seriously. and you're running an open 14.1 table,,,so all the shots are fairly easy except a couple that you bear down on.

the one tough cut shot that you missed looked good to me. you approached it like you do all your shots. i would not suggest taking a longer look at tough shots if that means breaking your rhythm.

you need video of a match, and a test of your skills. if you think there's something wrong with your mechanics, then there is....at least in your mind.

 

[Solartje]

being that the video is a good 3 months old, and ive changed since then, and ive read all the comments, ill post a new video. would be good for me to see wich things ive changed or that arent changed or not changed enough.

interesting stuff bruintje only a good instructer can tell me if there is really something bad in my mechanics. but i wouldnt say mine is perfect, and anything thats not perfect has room for improvement

aarf cant wait to post a new video.

 

[bruin70]

,,, i wouldnt say mine is perfect, and anything thats not perfect has room for improvement

that is a good position to take, so long as you understand that "perfection" comes from you, not a text book. "text book perfection" is for the general public and does not take indivisuality into account.

off hand i don't see anything wrong with your stroke per se. it varies sometimes, but shots vary. you've only moved your head with tough cuts. i can't say that you missed because you moved your head,,,,,maybe you moved your head because you were not 100% sure about the shot in the first place. archer has said most misses occur because you don't address the cb where you should. other than that people simply miss. you're too good a shooter to not know what's going on. there's something deep inside that is telling you it needs to be fixed but you haven't found it.

why don't you strip your stroke down to it's basics and rebuild. it's the only way you'll uncover your "imperfection". create some simple evaluation test shots until you find the flaw. you're a snooker player,,,yes? snooker players are very exacting.

 

[Solartje]

bruintje, thats what ive done over the past year. ive rebuild my crappy snooker stroke after braking it down to the bone.

alot of things have dissapeared (english on center ball hits, arm and shoulder movement, etc), some things are still in change phase (my shoulder isnt always exactly 90° i had to push it further in then before (i had chickenwings) and now i sometimes overdo it. its not yet became 2d nature), some things ill still be changing (but mostly adressing my shots and my time around the table. not so much on strokesmechanics.)

before i think of changing anything more to my stroke, ill have to post a video first.... there's always OVER rebuilding. we dont wonna do that hope u can see the difference.

what is wrong inside of me.. not sure. cant really say anything specific that influences my stroke. exept maybe: being selfsecure. never doubting my first feeling.