Stroke

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amazon

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Okay punch stroke and follow stroke, how do I know learn about strokes for position play? Yes I use the hal system, and can pocket balls with whatever stroke. Thats the problem because I don't even know what stroke I use. Because I could care less?

Can clear 3/4 table until I get cluster shots or snookered myself with opponents ball. And opponent runs out or does artful dodges.

Yes I know about tangent lines.
 
The best way is to get an instructor who can monitor you from the side and tell you what you are doing or not doing and work with you to improve your stroke and your game....

Another way to understand your stroke is to videotape yourself shooting, you can learn a lot from it. You will be amazed how many things you're doing while shooting that you probably shouldn't do or at least improve them. I suggest that you analyze the tape with a very good player or an instructor.
 
Good drill for stroke. Beginner level. Set ball 1 diamond from side pocket. Set cue ball in middle of table. Draw cue ball into side. A punch will be hard to draw back in a straight line. Try to off set just a little and still draw into the side. this requires a really smooth stroke. Now reverse the two balls and practice the same with top.

Once you get good at the go expert and do the diagonals, corner to corner.

Both drills will help with stroke and hitting the cue ball center line.

Good luck
 
There's only ONE stroke...just lots of ways to use it!

IMO, there are not a bunch of different strokes (although some others will argue). We do not teach a "punch" or "poke" at the CB. The stroke is all about taking the weight of the cue and perfect timing, to create stroke speed. The finish of the stroke is the same, regardless of whether you shoot soft or hard, fast or slow.

To the OP...if you understand tangent line physics, then you need to learn about how topspin and draw affect tangent lines. That's how you learn position play, and better control of the CB. It's all about better control of the cue STICK! :D

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
 
Scott Lee said:
IMO, there are not a bunch of different strokes (although some others will argue). We do not teach a "punch" or "poke" at the CB. The stroke is all about taking the weight of the cue and perfect timing, to create stroke speed. The finish of the stroke is the same, regardless of whether you shoot soft or hard, fast or slow.

To the OP...if you understand tangent line physics, then you need to learn about how topspin and draw affect tangent lines. That's how you learn position play, and better control of the CB. It's all about better control of the cue STICK! :D

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Click to expand...

Do you have a stroke (punch for lack of better name) with a contact point at the CB and causes it to take a different tangent line than a smooth stroke with a contact point past the CB? It is like boxing... if you hit someone you want to hit past them to get the power. Trying to hit them in front is totally different. You might swing the same, but the hit is a lot different.
 
Scott:
There's only ONE stroke...just lots of ways to use it!
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IMO, there are not a bunch of different strokes (although some others will argue).
Click to expand...

No argument from me.

There's only one stroke, and it's simple. All you need to do is hit the cue ball on the right spot with the right speed.

Learning exactly where to hit the cue ball and with what speed come from practice and experience.

Hitting the cue ball accurately at every speed is all there is to the stroke; there are no tricks or secrets. All the advice and instruction you get and all the technique you learn will be aimed at learning to stroke straight, accurate and consistently.

It's very basic and straightforward and shouldn't take more than the rest of your life.

pj
chgo
 
Jason Robichaud said:
Do you have a stroke (punch for lack of better name) with a contact point at the CB and causes it to take a different tangent line than a smooth stroke with a contact point past the CB? It is like boxing... if you hit someone you want to hit past them to get the power. Trying to hit them in front is totally different. You might swing the same, but the hit is a lot different.
Click to expand...

You can't have a contact point past the cue ball. Like Scott said, there is one stroke with different speeds. The key is to finish the stroke. If done properly, you are going to make contact with the cue ball, and it is going to get out of the way within about 1/1000 of a second. Get the stroke, and everything else will work.
Steve
 
pooltchr said:
You can't have a contact point past the cue ball. Like Scott said, there is one stroke with different speeds. The key is to finish the stroke. If done properly, you are going to make contact with the cue ball, and it is going to get out of the way within about 1/1000 of a second. Get the stroke, and everything else will work.
Steve
Click to expand...

For me, the easiest way to get new players stroking through the CB is telling them to hit an imaginary ball past the CB. Many of the new players finish their stroke before hitting the CB.

So, yes you can have a contact point past the CB.
 
It is like boxing... if you hit someone you want to hit past them to get the power.
Click to expand...

The goal is to strike the cue ball when the stroke is at peak speed, which occurs at a certain point in your stroke. I think effective visualization is important, but setting up so your tip is at the cue ball at the right point in your stroke is most important. Most players and instructors think the best point is at the bottom of the pendulum stroke, when the grip/power hand is moving directly along the shot line (not up or down).

Once you've set up so the tip will contact the cue ball at the right point in your stroke, does it matter whether you visualize hitting the cue ball or somewhere past it? I don't know, but if it does I'm pretty sure it doesn't matter as much as the setup.

pj
chgo
 
Patrick Johnson said:
The goal is to strike the cue ball when the stroke is at peak speed, which occurs at a certain point in your stroke. I think effective visualization is important, but setting up so your tip is at the cue ball at the right point in your stroke is most important. Most players and instructors think the best point is at the bottom of the pendulum stroke, when the grip/power hand is moving directly along the shot line (not up or down).

Once you've set up so the tip will contact the cue ball at the right point in your stroke, does it matter whether you visualize hitting the cue ball or somewhere past it? I don't know, but if it does I'm pretty sure it doesn't matter as much as the setup.

pj
chgo
Click to expand...

Sure it does... So you have them all setup for a proper swing. Now when they do, their stroke stops and inch short. Setup would be useless wouldn't it? That is the problem I'm talking about. I'm not talking the basics of setting up. I'm talking about the feel of the stroke while hitting the CB. Once I have them standing, aligned etc... That was the easiest way to make them understand how to stroke at and past the CB. Many stopped at the CB resulting in a bad stroke and power.
 
Many stopped at the CB...
Click to expand...

Well, that's a much more extreme problem than I was talking about. I thought we were talking about how to maximize speed at contact for players who know enough to follow through. Just telling them to follow through without stopping doesn't fix this?

pj
chgo
 
Patrick Johnson said:
... Just telling them to follow through without stopping doesn't fix this? ...
Click to expand...
If it doesn't fix it, putting a mark on the table a few inches in front of the cue ball and asking them to hit the mark should help.
 
amazon said:
Okay punch stroke and follow stroke, how do I know learn about strokes for position play? Yes I use the hal system, and can pocket balls with whatever stroke. Thats the problem because I don't even know what stroke I use. Because I could care less?

Can clear 3/4 table until I get cluster shots or snookered myself with opponents ball. And opponent runs out or does artful dodges.

Yes I know about tangent lines.
Click to expand...


Off subject: How long did it take you to get use to Hal's system? And, what is the most racks you ran in a row?

I spoke with Hal awhile back, and am thinking of revisiting the system.

jdsons
 
Jason Robichaud said:
For me, the easiest way to get new players stroking through the CB is telling them to hit an imaginary ball past the CB. Many of the new players finish their stroke before hitting the CB.

So, yes you can have a contact point past the CB.
Click to expand...

You may visualize an aiming point beyond the cue ball, but you would be defying the laws of physics if you had a contact point beyond the cue ball. The contact point is exactly where the tip and cue ball meet.
We don't teach our students to hit the cue ball. We teach them to set up properly and then finish their stroke. When done correctly, the cue ball always gets out of the way, and you get your follow through as a result of completing a properly set up stroke.
Steve
 
Let's not have hal in this subject shall we? Let's focus on getting something productive done for me.

To all the instructors and people out there. Continue posting.

Edit,

Incidentally I follow through all the time. The main question seems to be, how do I know when to use a punch stroke or follow stroke? And how do I execute a punch stroke when the cue ball doesn't care once the tip hits it?
 
Last edited:
It's very basic and straightforward and shouldn't take more than the rest of your life.
Click to expand...

LOL...the funniest thing I've read you typed sir...Godblamed true too by my estimation lol
 
amazon said:
Incidentally I follow through all the time. The main question seems to be, how do I know when to use a punch stroke or follow stroke? And how do I execute a punch stroke when the cue ball doesn't care once the tip hits it?
Click to expand...

amazon,
The difference between a punch "stroke" and a follow "stroke" are basically cue speed and tip position. The movements are (if you are consistent) the same. There is only one type of movement, one type of stroke, for almost all shots.

For myself, this was hard to accept. But, when I did, the game became much simpler.

Once you understand that the stroke is the same, your first question will change. Instead of "when do I use a punch or follow stroke?" you will ask "when do I use which speed and which tip position?". And I think you need to learn those from practice and experience.
 
amazon said:
...how do I know when to use a punch stroke or follow stroke? And how do I execute a punch stroke when the cue ball doesn't care once the tip hits it?
Click to expand...

Those strokes don't exist. There's only one kind of stroke. The only difference from stroke to stroke is how hard you hit the cueball. The sooner you learn this the less time you'll waste chasing myths.

Concentrate on learning to hit the cue ball accurately and consistently. That's plenty to worry about.

pj
chgo
 
Patrick Johnson said:
No argument from me.

It's very basic and straightforward and shouldn't take more than the rest of your life.

pj
chgo
Click to expand...

:D That's classic !!

Hopefully the OP will live long enough to enjoy some of what he learns along that journey.
 
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