Structural Engineer anyone?

Plan for sconce indirect lighting on the walls so u don't need to have bright lighting...
As far as trusses, just double up the truss under the foot, and also under the head of the table. No steel should be necessary...remember, the more weight u add, to hold the weight...is counter-productive :cool:
 
Bushings cutout thru carpet

One thing that I would do if I were building a pool room, would be to have the carpet folks cut out a small piece of carpet under where each foot of the table will go...just like 1/2" x 1/2" each. I would cut 4 pieces off of a 3/4" steel tube, race like 1/2" long...put he steel tube bushings in the holes, so when the weight of the pool table starts to collapse the carpet...the leg makes contact with the bushings, and transfers the weight down to the subfloor...that way you won't have to keep re-leveling.
 
Here is how you build the floor for your second level table.

Determine where the table legs will be and reduce joist to 12" o/c in that area. 12" o/c for entire room would be best. Make sure to put in extra lateral support (these go between the joist and spread loads). The concern isn't the joist carrying the load but the sheathing, which is the next and most important step. Use 3/4" plywood glue and screw to joist and then on top of the 3/4" glue and screw 1/2" plywood. put screws every 6" or less.

If you have any issue with this floor I would be shocked. This is how I built for people wanting hot tubs etc. Never had any issue getting permits with the designs.
 
Make sure your joist are 2x10's or equivalent, tgi's are better with max 16" spacing. The max span unsupported shouldn't be over 15'. I used an engineer for my third floor which has my table, I don't have a steel beam but my joist rest on my top plates of the second floor walls.
 
The latest - I have an "informal" suggestion from a local engineering firm (since they don't have my framing plans in their office) : using composite joists (look like wood I-beams) and have those span 12" O.C. over the entire floor area that is to be supported from the rooms/headers below (pantry/laundry/gym)...and depending on the subfloor decking material, glue and screw 6" spacing into the joists. Double layering depends on the spec load capacity of the I-beam joists.....so when I have those details, they will run a load test and official stamp. Toss in money - print - and there I'll have it ;-)

Thanks for all the input so far everyone ----- and I'm still waiting for a structural engineer to chime in - if there is one in the forum - to toss their $.02 in the pocket before I run off to the Firm with a pocket full o'money ;-D

Oh --- one other thought: does anyone suggest actually cutting out the carpet footprints under each 6" square table leg to minimize settling or does that lead to other issues like vibrations, noise, table height etc? Or just leave the carpet alone?

Thanks, All!!
 
K2Kraze said:
Oh --- one other thought: does anyone suggest actually cutting out the carpet footprints under each 6" square table leg to minimize settling or does that lead to other issues like vibrations, noise, table height etc? Or just leave the carpet alone?

Thanks, All!!
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Glen (King Cobra) posted a method he uses in the Mechanics section of this forum. It involves roof nails as pedestals under each foot to stop the carpet from being crushed. He's a top mechanic and knows his stuff.

Best,
Mike
 
K2Kraze said:
Anyone available in the forum that can answer a 2nd floor table installation question or two from a Structural Engineer viewpoint? We are building a custom home working directly with the architect and builder, and would greatly appreciate some insight as to what we need to be looking for on our framing plans, etc to make sure it is done properly with no surprises later. Or is everyone going to recommend getting my own local SE in the Fort Worth, TX area to review the plans with us?

Thanks everyone!
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There are several things you need to be looking at or paying attention to.

Firstly and the most obvious is that the floor joists/structure should be strong enough to support the load from what you are planning to put on it. So, you need to provide your architect & builder information on what you will be putting up there. Namely, the weight of your table and any thing else really heavy like maybe a big bookcase or aquarium that will be in the room.

The next thing you need to look at is the deflection of supporting structure under the load. This normally will be what determines the size of the floor joists. Normally in a house, the deflection is limited to a point that the drywall or plaster will not crack or keep doors or windows working properly. This may or may not be adequate to keep your table level. So check with your architect and make sure that he is not using a standard code deflection criteria. I would tighten this limit up so that the floor does not feel bouncy under the weight of the table with you walking around it while playing and your table will stay level over time.

The last thing I would look at is where on the floor you will be putting the table. If at all possible center the table between load bearing walls. That way when the floor deflects, and it will, the table just moves downward and will stay more or less level. If the center of the table is 7 feet from one wall and 13 to the other, the table will follow the slope of the roof joists when the floor deflects under load.

To summarize, what you need to do is impress upon your architect that you will need an extra stiff structure under the table for serviceability reasons. Let him know what you plan on putting in that space (9 foot table weighing 1500 plus pounds). Try to locate the table between load bearing walls if at all possible. If your architect does not feel comfortable running the numbers have him call in an Engineer (as an architect he should know several in the area).
 
Mike -

I couldn't find any posts by King Cobra regarding table leg / carpet compression and roofing nails - he on this forum? I'm not finding any member info.
 
Mikjary said:
A 20' span is a heck of a steel beam.
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not really.. the rule of thumb for steel beams is half the span in inches.. so for 20 feet... it'd be 10 inches.. or a choice between a light W12 beam or a heavy W8.. you'd probably go with a W8x21 because it'd carry ANY household load and would fit into existing stick build construction pretty easy...

a better choice for a home would probably be a microlam beam.. because carpenters can trim and fit a lot easier than steel workers can.. especially in a house..

structurally a pool table really isn't that big of a deal....
 
carpet feet

If you check the ask a mechanic section ,on page 5 is the item your asking about. it was posted by iusedtoberich, and shows how to build them. also, from there you will get a reference to The Real King Cobra, which you might find useful. Hope this helps. Good Luck.
 
Never believe anyone who tells you "don't worry, it will be fine".

Primary structural issues to consider are dead load and live load. Can the structure carry the weight of the pool table and can the second floor carry the amount of people that you may have standing, sitting and moving around on the second floor. Those issues are easy to figure out and most building codes far exceed the dead load of a pool table. It's really nothing more than sevel pieces of heavy furniture.

More specific issues to installing a pool table on the second story of a stick constructed house is: 1.) how squeaky will the floor be, 2.) how wiggly will the floor feel when walking around and 3.) how much future settling will you get which impacts the levelness of the floor.

I've been in several houses with pool tables on the second floor. Some are built like a brick shite house and others have been built like track housing as cheaply as possible.

My suggestion is to over-build the floor joist system. You could ask the builder to install several laminated joists. There are various ways to laminate.

The most expensive is called a glue lam where they heat, glue and press a combination of 2 by's together. There could be any combination but it's based on calculations for 1.) spanning vast openings without columns and 2.) designed such that they can carry the dead and live loads. I have a glue lam in my home and it spans approx 30 feet and is made up of (5) 2 by 8's. It's not for carrying load, it's for having an open game room on the first floor.

Next least expensive would be engineered joists that are built up in a factory and ordered to spec. The cross section is made of of various deminsioned lumber. It's fairly scientific.

Other less expensive laminations are those that are fabricated by the framers on site. They could easily do (2) 2 by 12's with 3/4" plywood sandwiched in between, glued and screwed at the job site. This is what I would do if I were you. Not that expensive. I'd be sure to calculate exactly where the table legs will be and be sure to have joists positioned directly under. Also you could do 12 or 16 inch centers in the area of the pool table.

All this will add incremental cost.

Last thing I would want is a squeaky floor. It would drive me crazy.

Hope this helps..
 
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Bankit said:
If you check the ask a mechanic section ,on page 5 is the item your asking about. it was posted by iusedtoberich, and shows how to build them. also, from there you will get a reference to The Real King Cobra, which you might find useful. Hope this helps. Good Luck.
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Here is the link:
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=285910

The table is installed, and the feet worked well. I will have to update the pics when I get a chance...
 
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