stuff to remind my noobies about APA at states

justadub

justadub

Rattling corners nightly
Silver Member
Trying to put together a short list (short, ha) of all the nit picky stuff that goes with any bigger APA tourney.

Please, this isn't an excuse to crap on the apparent silliness of some of this stuff. It's been beaten to death. I'm simply trying to remember the things to educate my noobies about before it starts. Simply put, if we are all aware of this stuff, it shouldn't matter how silly it can be, cuz it won't happen.

- mark the pocket
- let the balls stop rolling, before pulling them out to rack or on a scratch
- spotting the 9-ball, if the cue ball is in the same pocket, pull them out one at a time, never both in one hand (cue ball is "live")
- push shot, 45 degree angle jack up
- always ask before picking up cue ball for BIH
- if they have a rules question, ask the other team first, so there is no question about it being a time-out

I know there are a few other whambly things that are technically rules but rarely enforced in regular sessions, that I'm forgetting. Suggestions?

Again, please keep this about what to remember, not how stupid you think some of this is. I don't disagree, but it is what it is....if I prepare my people properly, none of this will come up so it wont matter how silly it is.

Thanks
 
Hey Bruce...here is a great rule that is seldom called in APA. You shoot a shot and in the process of shooting accidentally move an object ball. The moving cue ball then strikes the ball that you accidentally moved. That is a ball in hand foul and is written out clearly in the APA rules book.

I see this happen more than you think so watch out for it.
 
APA doesn't recognize push shots if the balls are frozen at least i know this to be true in 8 ball apa not positive on 9 ball but i would imagine it to be the same becasue in the rule book it says they will not recognize push shots if the balls a frozen because there to controversial so they will not be called a foul. I had this come up in are LTC last weekend, which my team won btw. but i figured i would point that out
 
anytime you think a shot may result in a foul , examples, push or hitting your ball 1st take the time to call for an observer.

not every one calls fouls on theirselves.

remember all questionable shots goes to the shooters favor unless you call an observer.
 
An extremely important point that both the new guys *and* the seasoned vets should remain mindful of:

Have fun!

No kidding. I remind my team mates of this whenever we're in a playoff or other important matches.

Def keep track of all of the nit picky details but never look past the fun aspect.

They'll play better following this advice, in my experience.

GL and let us know how it goes.

best,
brian kc
 
Kickin' Chicken said:
An extremely important point that both the new guys *and* the seasoned vets should remain mindful of:

Have fun!

No kidding. I remind my team mates of this whenever we're in a playoff or other important matches.

Def keep track of all of the nit picky details but never look past the fun aspect.

They'll play better following this advice, in my experience.

GL and let us know how it goes.

best,
brian kc
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best advice! don't take yourself too serious!
 
After you have sunk the last ball (8 or 9) let the cue ball come to a dead stop before you touch it or start rolling the ball left out on the table back to the rack area, I have seen more people get burned by this one than I can count. Not so much for the left over object ball but altering the path of the cue ball is a foul. and...
It is likely that you will encounter at least a team or two that has a person that will watch your every movement and will call a foul if you fly isn't zipped all the way to the top (know what I mean?), be ready and expect crap like that, but by that same token - know the rules, they can save your life.
 
One notable misconception I had about the APA rules was that there was no jumping allowed, but I found out at the national singles event a year or two ago that this was not exactly true.

The specific rule is that there are no "jump cues" allowed. In other words jumping is allowed as long as you are shooting a true jump shot (aka hitting down on the ball and not 'scooping'), but you have to be able to do it with a full length cue that isn't broken down in some way. Either a player's shooting cue or break cue are acceptable.

While this will always be true at the national tournament level there is a note in the APA handbook that does defer to "house rules" for the host location of an event. If they say you can't jump then that's the official ruling, but it might serve to remember to ask and then also know that if you make it to vegas it's an option.
 
toddgator said:
One notable misconception I had about the APA rules was that there was no jumping allowed, but I found out at the national singles event a year or two ago that this was not exactly true.

The specific rule is that there are no "jump cues" allowed. In other words jumping is allowed as long as you are shooting a true jump shot (aka hitting down on the ball and not 'scooping'), but you have to be able to do it with a full length cue that isn't broken down in some way. Either a player's shooting cue or break cue are acceptable.

While this will always be true at the national tournament level there is a note in the APA handbook that does defer to "house rules" for the host location of an event. If they say you can't jump then that's the official ruling, but it might serve to remember to ask and then also know that if you make it to vegas it's an option.
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Are you talking APA?
I didn't think you were permitted to switch cues for a jump. I thought the only time you could switch cues was for the break. If you want to jump you have to use your playing cue.
 
A couple of thoughts:

As with a lot of us our league time is in the evenings. You are going to be asking your noobs to be shooting at different hours in the tournament. Remind them to get rest and food at hours most resembling their normal daily routine.

Sometimes in the Tri-annual or Regional tournaments we know our opponents. When we don't, asking for a players ID is totally acceptable.

Have fun!

Good luck

Alan
 
toddgator said:
One notable misconception I had about the APA rules was that there was no jumping allowed, but I found out at the national singles event a year or two ago that this was not exactly true.

The specific rule is that there are no "jump cues" allowed. In other words jumping is allowed as long as you are shooting a true jump shot (aka hitting down on the ball and not 'scooping'), but you have to be able to do it with a full length cue that isn't broken down in some way. Either a player's shooting cue or break cue are acceptable.

While this will always be true at the national tournament level there is a note in the APA handbook that does defer to "house rules" for the host location of an event. If they say you can't jump then that's the official ruling, but it might serve to remember to ask and then also know that if you make it to vegas it's an option.
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I use my break cue for a jump cue in APA all of the time. Occasionally I use my playing cue but I'm not quite as skilled with that one.
 
toddgator said:
One notable misconception I had about the APA rules was that there was no jumping allowed, but I found out at the national singles event a year or two ago that this was not exactly true.

The specific rule is that there are no "jump cues" allowed. In other words jumping is allowed as long as you are shooting a true jump shot (aka hitting down on the ball and not 'scooping'), but you have to be able to do it with a full length cue that isn't broken down in some way. Either a player's shooting cue or break cue are acceptable.

While this will always be true at the national tournament level there is a note in the APA handbook that does defer to "house rules" for the host location of an event. If they say you can't jump then that's the official ruling, but it might serve to remember to ask and then also know that if you make it to vegas it's an option.
Click to expand...


If you jump, you must use your regular playing cue.......... you cannot switch to your break cue................

Kim
 
Push or double hit foul

Chuck521 said:
APA doesn't recognize push shots if the balls are frozen at least i know this to be true in 8 ball apa not positive on 9 ball but i would imagine it to be the same becasue in the rule book it says they will not recognize push shots if the balls a frozen because there to controversial so they will not be called a foul. I had this come up in are LTC last weekend, which my team won btw. but i figured i would point that out
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There's some confusion here between a "push" a "push shot" and a double hit foul.

A "push" is generally taken to mean an option to simply roll the cue ball to a better position on the first shot after the break in 9-ball.

A "push shot" generally means pushing rather than striking the cue ball. In other words, the cue tip stays in contact with the cue ball. Think of it like comparing a shove to a punch. The push shot is illegal in virtually all rules.

The double hit foul is committed when the cue tip strikes the cue ball twice on one shot. This is where the "45%" jack up comes in as one way to avoid the double hit...has nothing to do with a "push" or a "push shot".

Many league directors do not understand these terms and rules.

They're well-defined in the World Standardized Rules of Play, which you can find at a number of websites. Keep in mind that the APA rules are unique (for a reason) and often do not conform with the World Standardized Rules.
 
justadub said:
Trying to put together a short list (short, ha) of all the nit picky stuff that goes with any bigger APA tourney.

Please, this isn't an excuse to crap on the apparent silliness of some of this stuff. It's been beaten to death. I'm simply trying to remember the things to educate my noobies about before it starts. Simply put, if we are all aware of this stuff, it shouldn't matter how silly it can be, cuz it won't happen.

- mark the pocket
- let the balls stop rolling, before pulling them out to rack or on a scratch
- spotting the 9-ball, if the cue ball is in the same pocket, pull them out one at a time, never both in one hand (cue ball is "live")
- push shot, 45 degree angle jack up
- always ask before picking up cue ball for BIH
- if they have a rules question, ask the other team first, so there is no question about it being a time-out

I know there are a few other whambly things that are technically rules but rarely enforced in regular sessions, that I'm forgetting. Suggestions?

Again, please keep this about what to remember, not how stupid you think some of this is. I don't disagree, but it is what it is....if I prepare my people properly, none of this will come up so it wont matter how silly it is.

Thanks
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on #1...Lord have mercy on the soul that is going to try and call a foul on me if he makes the 9ball and scratches and I pick both up with one hand out of the pocket and tries tell me its ball in hand LOL.

#2 it's clearly stated in the rule book that rule questions or remarks as "nice shot", "mark the pocket" etc are not considered coaching. I have had however many people try to pull one of those on my new players during cities tournaments.

all this reminds me of the crazy things people do to win at this tournaments. e.g: Last weekend during 8ball cities on my area two teams were competing; Team A, this girl was looking at her shot, bends over to shooting, and while she was doing this, her opponent from Team B walks behind her and "accidentally" bumps her cue and the cue hits the cueball; crazy that it is team B called a foul ball in hand, they called the referee and the referee said that it was indeed ball in hand for Team B. This really got me in disbelief, I guess im gonna start walking behind my opponent while he is shooting from now on and "accidentally" bump them and get ball in hand.

People love to come up with little very insignificant rules in the APA handbook, however; no one likes to quote the rule about good sportsmanship in the rule book that would actually make this a very enjoyable experience and the winner/losers are determined by the shooting and not gray area rules.
 
oshua86 said:
People love to come up with little very insignificant rules in the APA handbook, however; no one likes to quote the rule about good sportsmanship in the rule book that would actually make this a very enjoyable experience and the winner/losers are determined by the shooting and not gray area rules.
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It's a sick twisted red-neck cult where rednecks get to practice being lawyers for a weekend.
 
Thanks for the replies folks. I won't reply to each of them, but i am aware of most of them.

We could get into a lot of debate here, which won't solve anything. What I'm going to do is run a few of these by my LO to get his ruling, so I don't have to interpret anything. The jump cue thing is one I've gone around with him before, the way I read it is they have to use their player, not any other cue, but we'll see what he says.

I have had the "bump" happen to me at tri cups before, that was on my list to remind them about....look behind you while in close quarters!

APA doesn't allow a push shot after the break in 9-all, Donny, what I'm referring to is when balls are so close that it will result in a double hit, which the locals here call a push shot. The way I understand it, in the world of APA, if you jack up at least 45 degrees, they won't call it a double hit. Again, I will get clarification before we start.

I dont want anyone to think that I'm planning on being a rules lawyer, cuz I don't roll that way. My plan is to be prepared in case it happens to us, and to teach my newer folks how to avoid the stuff that gets silly in the first place.

And Brian, rest assured, we will have fun. We have been talking about that for a while now....trust me, my 9-ball team can give the 5 on having fun :p

Anything else? I'm sure there are other things...thanks again, gang.
 
justadub, in reference to the jump shots on APA a lot of it has to do with local bylaws, on the national level you are allowed to jump (a legal jump shot) with your full cue, however some local bylaws on local leagues allow you to switch cues and use either your break cue or your playing cue, an example is my apa here in raleigh NC, we are allowed to switch cues for jump shots as long as it is your playing cue or break cue. there are other bylaws that are local, for example breaking down a cue is no longer a loss of match. I think the reason why you are allowed to use your break cue now to jump full cue is because in a new era of ultra LD shafts jumping full cue with a LD shaft is very hard.

a push shot and a double hit are two different things, I suggest you do your own research about it. Raising your cue and hitting the CB at a 45 degree angle does not necessarily guarantees you that you are going to have a good hit, it helps but its not a guarantee, I have had to referee many shots where the shooter raised his cue to a 45 degree angle and it was still a double hit. It is easy to understand it once you know how the cue ball is supposed to react.

Take a look at Dr Daves viodes on his website http://billiards.colostate.edu/ hes got plenty of information and slow motion videos that explain very well what is and is not a good hit.

One more thing to remember is something that happened to us recently, I dont know if this is at a local level or national but you are not allowed to use money to mark the pocket, one of my team mates used a wad of money to mark a pocket and the opposite team called a foul and loss of game. Neither you are allowed to use cellphones to mark pockets. I can kinda understand about the cellphone one, but money? ohh well, one more of those rules.
 
oshua86 said:
justadub, in reference to the jump shots on APA a lot of it has to do with local bylaws, on the national level you are allowed to jump (a legal jump shot) with your full cue, however some local bylaws on local leagues allow you to switch cues and use either your break cue or your playing cue, an example is my apa here in raleigh NC, we are allowed to switch cues for jump shots as long as it is your playing cue or break cue. there are other bylaws that are local, for example breaking down a cue is no longer a loss of match. I think the reason why you are allowed to use your break cue now to jump full cue is because in a new era of ultra LD shafts jumping full cue with a LD shaft is very hard.

a push shot and a double hit are two different things, I suggest you do your own research about it. Raising your cue and hitting the CB at a 45 degree angle does not necessarily guarantees you that you are going to have a good hit, it helps but its not a guarantee, I have had to referee many shots where the shooter raised his cue to a 45 degree angle and it was still a double hit. It is easy to understand it once you know how the cue ball is supposed to react.

Take a look at Dr Daves viodes on his website http://billiards.colostate.edu/ hes got plenty of information and slow motion videos that explain very well what is and is not a good hit.

One more thing to remember is something that happened to us recently, I dont know if this is at a local level or national but you are not allowed to use money to mark the pocket, one of my team mates used a wad of money to mark a pocket and the opposite team called a foul and loss of game. Neither you are allowed to use cellphones to mark pockets. I can kinda understand about the cellphone one, but money? ohh well, one more of those rules.
Click to expand...

I had the money as a marker question with our guy a year or two ago, and that isnt an issue here. Anything can be used here, even a pocket chalker. At least it was ok then. :)
 
justadub said:
I know there are a few other whambly things that are technically rules but rarely enforced in regular sessions, that I'm forgetting. Suggestions?
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Sure...

And I'm going to stay off the rules, but play on the same "APA noobies at States," theme.

- The tournament will have more players than you're normally accustomed to:
  • Plan your bathroom strategy
  • Plan your cue storage strategy
To that point, you will find table time to practice at a premium. Get there early and stake a claim or get there let and watch.

Most APA league nights start at... night:. The State tourneys usually start in the morning. Don't be surprised that the sunlight coming through the windows completely blind you. Don't be that guy who spouts out that pool shouldn't be played in the morning. That'll just be telling people you've never been there before.

For the players who normally drink while playing pool... Obviously this is individual and state-dependent but if it's a Sunday, there might be a specific time before you can buy a beer. For me, I set the alarm clock at 1145AM.

Plan your eating strategy - Don't let it be 1030AM and you're starving like crazy and can't get someplace to grab a bite. Hit the DD's on the way in.

Don't complain about the handicaps. A "good SL-6" in one area could be a middle of the road SL-4 in a nearby area. It happens. Don't be surprised.

And have fun and all that ... but winning is the goal....

Freddie <~~~ burp
 
The push shot I'm referring to is in 8 ball when the object ball is frozen to the cue ball. APA will allow you to push throw the ball because the don't recognize a push shot they say in the rules its to controversial so it wont be considered a foul. but when the is a small gap you do have to be extremely careful of the double hit and should have a ref. watch
 
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