Stupid question on drawing the ball

metallicane

metallicane

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
How come I send the cue ball flying when I try to draw the ball sometimes, but others can draw the ball like it's nothing? I saw Sigel miscue once and send the cue ball flying which actually made me feel a little better, but getting the ball to draw on a long shot is tough for me to do. Thoughts?
 
metallicane said:
How come I send the cue ball flying when I try to draw the ball sometimes, but others can draw the ball like it's nothing? I saw Sigel miscue once and send the cue ball flying which actually made me feel a little better, but getting the ball to draw on a long shot is tough for me to do. Thoughts?
Click to expand...

trying to/ hit too low on the CB.
Elbow drop.
<video analysis> ;)
cOOp
 
metallicane said:
How come I send the cue ball flying when I try to draw the ball sometimes, but others can draw the ball like it's nothing? I saw Sigel miscue once and send the cue ball flying which actually made me feel a little better, but getting the ball to draw on a long shot is tough for me to do. Thoughts?
Click to expand...

My guess is that your cue is angled down when you are about to strike the cue ball and once you strike the c/b, you drop your elbow, launching the c/b off the table. Keep your cue horizontally level when you execute a draw shot and follow straight thru. Hope that helps.
 
Probably getting too low on the cue ball.

I do it at all the wrong times, not that there is a right time to do it.

Just about every time it is because I was shooting way too low on the cue ball. Since I have a bad habit of dropping my elbow, I would guess that contributes greatly to it also.
 
I don't understand what an elbow drop has to do with launching the cb on a draw stroke attempt.

Dropping the elbow...before cb impact...raises the tip to a higher plane than it would otherwise be on and therefore would minimize the chances of striking the cb too low.

What am I missing???

THANKS!

Jim
 
I do it more than I should and feel everytime it's because I just hit too damn low on the CB.
 
Another common mistake is to hit the cue ball too hard. If you are hitting it correctly, a medium stroke is all that's needed for most draw shots. The condition of the cloth makes a big difference, too. You can draw much easier on a nappy cloth than on a slick cloth. I would suggest doing progressive drills where you not only increase the distance between the balls, but also work on drawing farther distances with the same distance between cue and object balls. Eventually, you'll develop the eye/feel for where on the cue ball to make contact and for speed of cue delivery. Don't expect it to happen over night.
 
coopdeville said:
The bridge hand acts a a fulcrum.
when the elbow drops the tip lifts and may scoop the ball off the table.
Click to expand...

I'd have to see the slo mo video to accept that. I don't think it is possible to launch the CB with a upward fulcrum move if the cb contact point is above the miscue zone...the bottom of the horizontal stripe.

A draw stroke launch is generally caused by a miscue which causes the ferrule/shaft to run under the cb and thereby launch it....IMHO.

Regards,
Jim
 
metallicane said:
How come I send the cue ball flying when I try to draw the ball sometimes, but others can draw the ball like it's nothing? I saw Sigel miscue once and send the cue ball flying which actually made me feel a little better, but getting the ball to draw on a long shot is tough for me to do. Thoughts?
Click to expand...
Practice a level stroke, soft at first. Note where the tip contact the cue ball (a Rempe training ball or a stripe on its side works good).

When you understand the reaction, you can impart more force, which results in more draw.

Keep in mind that you can draw the cue ball from one side of the table to the other with a medium stroke (on typical cloth) if you are contacting the cue ball correctly. You don't need to power the cue ball, unless your starting distance and draw needed are both large.


CueTable Help



-td
 
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bsmutz said:
Another common mistake is to hit the cue ball too hard. If you are hitting it correctly, a medium stroke is all that's needed for most draw shots. The condition of the cloth makes a big difference, too. You can draw much easier on a nappy cloth than on a slick cloth. I would suggest doing progressive drills where you not only increase the distance between the balls, but also work on drawing farther distances with the same distance between cue and object balls. Eventually, you'll develop the eye/feel for where on the cue ball to make contact and for speed of cue delivery. Don't expect it to happen over night.
Click to expand...

I could be wrong but that doesn't seem correct. There are offsetting forces.

With slick cloth, the reverse spinning cb may spin in place more than on nappy cloth which would dissipate some of the draw but...

The friction of the nappy cloth will dampen the reverse spin on the way to the OB and once the ball starts to move backward, the nap will slow it down and reduce the draw distance.

Seems to me that maximum draw distance would be less on nappy cloth but it has been so long since I've played on it and because my draw stroke has improved considerably since then, I am just guessing.

Regards,
Jim
 
av84fun said:
I don't understand what an elbow drop has to do with launching the cb on a draw stroke attempt.

Dropping the elbow...before cb impact...raises the tip to a higher plane than it would otherwise be on and therefore would minimize the chances of striking the cb too low.

What am I missing???

THANKS!

Jim
Click to expand...
Are you under the impression that elbow dropping causes the tip to raise?

Without discussing the merits of dropping an elbow, doing so (i.e., for a piston stroke) does not mean the tip raises before contact. The purpose of a piston stroke is to allow the tip to travel on its intended plane for a longer period of time. That is, the elbow drop ensures a longer period of time that the tip is at the offset desired.

With respect to miscuing, lack of chalk, an elevated butt, improper sighting, or over amping on a stroke are the primary causes of a miscue. Perhaps even in that order.

-td
 
Quick question: When you miscue on these shots, does the cueball jump straight forward?

Part of the miscue may be due to off-center (along the horizontal axis) cue placement at impact.
 
av84fun said:
I could be wrong but that doesn't seem correct. There are offsetting forces.

The condition of the cloth makes a big difference, too. You can draw much easier on a nappy cloth than on a slick cloth.
Click to expand...

With slick cloth, the reverse spinning cb may spin in place more than on nappy cloth which would dissipate some of the draw but...

The friction of the nappy cloth will dampen the reverse spin on the way to the OB and once the ball starts to move backward, the nap will slow it down and reduce the draw distance.

Seems to me that maximum draw distance would be less on nappy cloth but it has been so long since I've played on it and because my draw stroke has improved considerably since then, I am just guessing.
Click to expand...
You are correct. Fast cloth means more draw, more top, longer distances travelled on tangents, more hooks, more slide, shorter banks, easier pockets, and a host of other goodies.

-td
 
I think the elbow drop actually saves a few people from a miscue on a draw shot...

Let me explain.


If you are using a pendulum stroke and you start with you back hand too far forward....If you don't drop your elbow your tip has no place to go but straight into the cloth....That means that if you are already aiming low on the CB and the tip dips even more before it stikes the CB miscue will happen.....(If this type person lets the elbow drop it will keep the tip on its origonal aim longer...IMO)

A pendulum stroke with a too far forward hand and (as was posted) an off center axis hit on the CB will spell disaster... :eek:

My advice is the firs thing you should do is check your grip arm position at impact...if it is more than just slightly forward of perpendicular...I would try moving your grip hand back like three finger widths.....:)
 
how to draw like an artist

metallicane said:
How come I send the cue ball flying when I try to draw the ball sometimes, but others can draw the ball like it's nothing? I saw Sigel miscue once and send the cue ball flying which actually made me feel a little better, but getting the ball to draw on a long shot is tough for me to do. Thoughts?
Click to expand...
I have some good advice for draw shot technique in my May '06 article. Also, general stroke "best practices" should be followed with all shots, including draw shots.

Happy drawing,
Dave
 
td873 said:
Are you under the impression that elbow dropping causes the tip to raise?
Without discussing the merits of dropping an elbow, doing so (i.e., for a piston stroke) does not mean the tip raises before contact. The purpose of a piston stroke is to allow the tip to travel on its intended plane for a longer period of time. That is, the elbow drop ensures a longer period of time that the tip is at the offset desired.

With respect to miscuing, lack of chalk, an elevated butt, improper sighting, or over amping on a stroke are the primary causes of a miscue. Perhaps even in that order.

-td
Click to expand...

Yes, td...assuming the elbow drop occurs before CB contact. But you are correct, that is an impression and I have no scientific study to back it up. Is that impression wrong?

Re: "the tip to travel on its intended plane for a longer period of time."...if the drop occurs after CB contact/ then the length of the stroke facilitated by the dropping elbow has no effect on the shot whatsoever because, as you know, the ball is gone in a millisecond and could care less what the length of the stroke might be.

I have more than a table-length draw stroke (absent spinning it off the rail) and don't believe that acquiring any greater length is worth the effort due to the infrequency of such power being usefull...but I am INTERESTED in the dynamics of the shot and will appreciate any education you can provide.

Regards,
Jim
 
Try gripping farther back on your cue.

But the real problem is that your stroke needs work. That's true for everybody, but especially at first. Nobody here can tell you what's wrong with yours because we can't see it, but you can learn the basics of a good stroke by reading old threads about it here.

pj
chgo
 
Are you gripping the cue harder when you try a longer draw shot? If so this may be the problem. try keeping your back hand loose.
 
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