Suggestions to help the IPT

shanesinnott

shanesinnott

Follow Through
Silver Member
There are a ton of threads that give people the opportunity to knock the IPT and be negative. I would like to suggest a thread to try and help the IPT. Like many others, I have read most if not all of the posts in the IPT section on AZ and am very aware of the issues regarding non payment etc. I would like to respectfully ask that if you feel that you have a positive suggestion that might help the IPT move forward from this moment, then post it, if you have something negative to say with nothing positive, then I again respectively ask that you post the negative comment in another thread.

I am not attempting to be a cheerleader for the IPT (far from it) I am simply asking for suggestions to help the IPT stay in business. If you feel they are beyond help and it is done, then dont post. I am not asking for people to tell us it is done, I am asking for people to post how they think they can or could help KT and company make it work.

As fans of pool (which I am guessing most if not all of the posters on AZ are) I know that we want pro pool to flourish. We want players to make money and we want the industry to grow.

We know that Deno and most likely KT read this forum so why not try and help them. I am NOT suggesting that we just talk about how great the IPT is or how bad the IPT or KT or Deno are, I am merely suggesting that some of the people on this board could give some very good suggestions to the IPT on how they could go from here to make the tour a success.

If I could bend the ear of KT I would have many suggestions to him as to what I would do from this point forward. Honesty is a big one. I have always felt that it is very important to be honest with the people that I do business with. Admission of guilt, when you screw up, say you screwed up and dont try and cloud the truth with half truthes or lies. Most people are not stupid, you can make this tour successful but you have to be honest with the people you are dealing with and honest with your self about what you can or can't do or promise.

If you dont have the money to pay the players in full then let them know, but also try and come up with a solution that will get them paid. Don't lie about it, just tell them the way it is. Respect has to be earned and players will respect you if you are straight up with them.

This forum is a place of tremendous knowledge. KT mentioned in the BD article posted by Mike yesterday that:
"This is going to be a situation where over the next few years this business is going to change and evolve. We’re going to be learning about market conditions, the industry, etc."

What better way to learn about market conditions and the industry than from people on this board. It takes two people to communicate so why not post on the forum? Why not address specific issues brought up here? Why not learn from the many posters on this board with great insight ideas and experience? The people on this forum can have a DIRECT effect on the number of qualifier entrants both in a positive way and a negative way. The power of referrals in the Billiard Industry is huge, trust me on this one. You have a resource here at AZ that is not being used effectively.

I have many other suggestions but I have to get back to work.

Rome was not built in a day and I know that the serious issues that the IPT currently faces will not be fixed with this thread but maybe some of the suggestions might be something that the IPT will use and maybe, just maybe this thing can be saved and it would be pretty cool if some of the posters on AZ were able to help make it happen...because I know we can help, so lets hear it.
 
Hi Shane I think they've done so much right with regards the operations side. The problem is clear, KT never intended to fund it himself and he vastly underestimated the revnue he could pull in from qualifiers. His original promo started with "stand aside poker there's a new king in town" but we all know it couldn't compete with the poker model, there's too much skill involved. He obviously based his payouts on his business plan projections but as painful as it may be he needs to drastically cut prize money.

I know it would be unpopular with the players now they have tasted the vast sums of the N.A.Open but long term sustainability surely has to be the goal of every player. A year ago every player on the planet would have popped the champagne if the IPT had planned 6 $250,000 tournaments. The tournaments are fantastic, lets get the prize money and qualifier entries back to planet earth levels and try and build up to the multi million dollar pots over the next few years by selling pool, our product, to as many buyers and sponsors as we can.
 
to start with

shanesinnott said:
There are a ton of threads that give people the opportunity to knock the IPT and be negative. I would like to suggest a thread to try and help the IPT. Like many others, I have read most if not all of the posts in the IPT section on AZ and am very aware of the issues regarding non payment etc. I would like to respectfully ask that if you feel that you have a positive suggestion that might help the IPT move forward from this moment, then post it, if you have something negative to say with nothing positive, then I again respectively ask that you post the negative comment in another thread.

I am not attempting to be a cheerleader for the IPT (far from it) I am simply asking for suggestions to help the IPT stay in business. If you feel they are beyond help and it is done, then dont post. I am not asking for people to tell us it is done, I am asking for people to post how they think they can or could help KT and company make it work.

As fans of pool (which I am guessing most if not all of the posters on AZ are) I know that we want pro pool to flourish. We want players to make money and we want the industry to grow.

We know that Deno and most likely KT read this forum so why not try and help them. I am NOT suggesting that we just talk about how great the IPT is or how bad the IPT or KT or Deno are, I am merely suggesting that some of the people on this board could give some very good suggestions to the IPT on how they could go from here to make the tour a success.

If I could bend the ear of KT I would have many suggestions to him as to what I would do from this point forward. Honesty is a big one. I have always felt that it is very important to be honest with the people that I do business with. Admission of guilt, when you screw up, say you screwed up and dont try and cloud the truth with half truthes or lies. Most people are not stupid, you can make this tour successful but you have to be honest with the people you are dealing with and honest with your self about what you can or can't do or promise.

If you dont have the money to pay the players in full then let them know, but also try and come up with a solution that will get them paid. Don't lie about it, just tell them the way it is. Respect has to be earned and players will respect you if you are straight up with them.

This forum is a place of tremendous knowledge. KT mentioned in the BD article posted by Mike yesterday that:
"This is going to be a situation where over the next few years this business is going to change and evolve. We’re going to be learning about market conditions, the industry, etc."

What better way to learn about market conditions and the industry than from people on this board. It takes two people to communicate so why not post on the forum? Why not address specific issues brought up here? Why not learn from the many posters on this board with great insight ideas and experience? The people on this forum can have a DIRECT effect on the number of qualifier entrants both in a positive way and a negative way. The power of referrals in the Billiard Industry is huge, trust me on this one. You have a resource here at AZ that is not being used effectively.

I have many other suggestions but I have to get back to work.

Rome was not built in a day and I know that the serious issues that the IPT currently faces will not be fixed with this thread but maybe some of the suggestions might be something that the IPT will use and maybe, just maybe this thing can be saved and it would be pretty cool if some of the posters on AZ were able to help make it happen...because I know we can help, so lets hear it.
Click to expand...

First, I think the prize money structure could be reformed so that it wouldn't be so top-heavy.....I mean, if you paid $75K-$100K for first place, $40K-$50K for second, and scaled it down to minimum of $5,000 for last place, maybe until the Tour grows and achieves more success and sponsorship, the prize money could go up .... The second important thing would be more open to suggestions from the players and industry luminaries....instead of alienating people , swallow your pride and solicit their help....But most importantly, above all this, you have to start being honest with people because much damage has been done to the credibility of the IPT Tour......
 
shanesinnott said:
There are a ton of threads that give people the opportunity to knock the IPT and be negative. I would like to suggest a thread to try and help the IPT. Like many others, I have read most if not all of the posts in the IPT section on AZ and am very aware of the issues regarding non payment etc. I would like to respectfully ask that if you feel that you have a positive suggestion that might help the IPT move forward from this moment, then post it, if you have something negative to say with nothing positive, then I again respectively ask that you post the negative comment in another thread.

I am not attempting to be a cheerleader for the IPT (far from it) I am simply asking for suggestions to help the IPT stay in business. If you feel they are beyond help and it is done, then dont post. I am not asking for people to tell us it is done, I am asking for people to post how they think they can or could help KT and company make it work.

As fans of pool (which I am guessing most if not all of the posters on AZ are) I know that we want pro pool to flourish. We want players to make money and we want the industry to grow.

We know that Deno and most likely KT read this forum so why not try and help them. I am NOT suggesting that we just talk about how great the IPT is or how bad the IPT or KT or Deno are, I am merely suggesting that some of the people on this board could give some very good suggestions to the IPT on how they could go from here to make the tour a success.

If I could bend the ear of KT I would have many suggestions to him as to what I would do from this point forward. Honesty is a big one. I have always felt that it is very important to be honest with the people that I do business with. Admission of guilt, when you screw up, say you screwed up and dont try and cloud the truth with half truthes or lies. Most people are not stupid, you can make this tour successful but you have to be honest with the people you are dealing with and honest with your self about what you can or can't do or promise.

If you dont have the money to pay the players in full then let them know, but also try and come up with a solution that will get them paid. Don't lie about it, just tell them the way it is. Respect has to be earned and players will respect you if you are straight up with them.

This forum is a place of tremendous knowledge. KT mentioned in the BD article posted by Mike yesterday that:
"This is going to be a situation where over the next few years this business is going to change and evolve. We’re going to be learning about market conditions, the industry, etc."

What better way to learn about market conditions and the industry than from people on this board. It takes two people to communicate so why not post on the forum? Why not address specific issues brought up here? Why not learn from the many posters on this board with great insight ideas and experience? The people on this forum can have a DIRECT effect on the number of qualifier entrants both in a positive way and a negative way. The power of referrals in the Billiard Industry is huge, trust me on this one. You have a resource here at AZ that is not being used effectively.

I have many other suggestions but I have to get back to work.

Rome was not built in a day and I know that the serious issues that the IPT currently faces will not be fixed with this thread but maybe some of the suggestions might be something that the IPT will use and maybe, just maybe this thing can be saved and it would be pretty cool if some of the posters on AZ were able to help make it happen...because I know we can help, so lets hear it.
Click to expand...

Great idea Shane. Unfortunately KT and Deno never wanted any help from anyone who could help them. I spoke with both on more than one occasion and was pretty much ignored. KT was smug and blew me off, and Deno was a condescending know it all. If I made a worthwhile suggestion to him, he acted like he already thought of that.
 
I'd Like To See It

Shane asks:
What better way to learn about market conditions and the industry than from people on this board. It takes two people to communicate so why not post on the forum? Why not address specific issues brought up here? Why not learn from the many posters on this board with great insight ideas and experience? The people on this forum can have a DIRECT effect on the number of qualifier entrants both in a positive way and a negative way. The power of referrals in the Billiard Industry is huge, trust me on this one. You have a resource here at AZ that is not being used effectively.


I don't want to be negative, but I'll give you my opinion regarding your question.
I think that there are some here that have their own agenda and would nitpick every word from KT or Deno and hamper any useful contributions to a solution of problems.

Then, there are some (the number amazes me) that have absolutely NO reading comprehension, as evidenced by a post made in jest a few days ago by one poster claiming to be a letter from KT or the IPT. While well meaning, this type gets everything confused and takes statements out of context,thus creating havoc. How do you have a meaningful conversation with the clueless ?

There are many here with such disdain for KT (and/or Deno) that their input would be heavily slanted.
I don't think that KT is (or would be) receptive to input from the likes of AZB posters, but I'd like to be proven wrong on this this.

I think the IPT is in monumental disarray and doomed to implosion, but I would welcome the input of any knowledgeable party that might further the well being of the IPT or any other organization that promotes pool-billiards in a positive light, while rewarding those that have chosen to make pool their profession.

I fear that if KT said 'yes' to something, half the board would agree and half would scream NO. If he were to answer 'no' to something, half would agree and the other half would opt for YES, while pointing out what an imbecile he is.

I think that looking for a solution to a smooth running IPT on AZB is fraught with peril, but worth a try.
Doug
( all imo, of course )
.
.
Edited to include: And then there are those that will try to be humorous about whatever is said..... (guilty as charged)
.
 
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Smorgass Bored said:
I think that looking for a solution to a smooth running IPT on AZB is fraught with peril, but worth a try.
Doug
( all imo, of course )
Click to expand...

Doug,

Nice post. You may be right, but as you said, it IS worth a try. As far as I know, the IPT does still exist as of right now. It may or may not exist tomorrow, but there is always hope. As someone once said, 'Hope' is not a strategy, but if we can help with strategy then maybe there is hope :)
 
Perhaps, a better assessment of the "economies of scale" needed to keep the IPT alive (only in the absence of corporate sponsors) For example: The tournaments prize monies may need to be less (but still a lot more than, say the US Open) until more corporate sponsors will participate. A lot is right with the IPT thus far- The attire restrictions, the player stats, a very brilliant website, online and TV coverage, and most important the attention of the pool players, and room owners that organize and host the qualifiers. On the subject of entry fees….In my opinion they should remain at a substantial amount. This will encourage more pre-qualifier tournaments that will help both billiard rooms, and the IPT.

On the recent events: I am not a “puncher”

My attempt at the positive.

Islandboz
 
Gee Doug that was an excellent post. I found myself scrolling up several times just to make sure it was from you.

The first thing the IPT would have to do is layoff half the staff or more.

Then work out a payout with the players of 25¢ on the dollar for Reno.

Then lower the payout in tournaments. A $100,000 1st place, $75,000 2nd, etc would be very attractive to the players.

Limit it to 100 players and after every tournament the last 20 are eliminated and replaced by new qualifiers.

Then lower the entry fee to $500/$1,000 for qualifiers. Qualify at $500 and that gets you half the prize money. Qualifiers would really have to be pushed because that is where the early money is coming from.

Money does have to be generated for any tour to succeed.

But wait a minute, we have all given up on the IPT. If we think there still is a chance to save it then we would have to admit that KT is right.

Jake
 
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My ideas have more to do with television coverage for attracting a new audience.



- Get more HD broadcasts at all costs.

- Players should have a designated color shirt or vest for each match to assist in player identification.

- There should be a permanent overhead graphic that shows name of player, pre match odds, who's turn it is, and whether they are stripes or solids, and real time percentage to win game as explained below.

- One of the drawbacks of pool on televison is that it is next to impossible for the casual viewer to tell who is winning the game just by seeing the balls on the table. A real time percentage of who is likely to win the game should be posted during the duration of the match.

Real time percentage to win game would look similar to percentages during poker coverage and could be placed on the screen throughout the game wherever appropriate. The best way to descibe it is to use the following example.

Player A and B prepare to lag for break.

Player A - 50%
Player B - 50%

Player B wins lag

Player A - 40%
Player B - 60%

Player B breaks, makes 1 ball and the spread looks good for a run out.

Player A - 25%
Player B - 75%

(The important thing here is not absolute precision, it's based on a reasonable judgement within 5 percent or so)

Player B makes next shot, leaves good position

Player A - 22%
Player B - 78%

Player B , makes next shot, leaves less than best position

Player A - 30%
Player B - 70%

Player B, makes next shot but drifts into horrible position freezing up on an opponents ball.

Player A - 65%
Player B - 35%

This is important because I think most of your casual viewers would think that making a ball is automatically good.

This system would be a way for new viewers to keep up with what is happening without needing years of pool knowledge.

This system would be a good way to interest viewers into what is happening at the moment as opposed to waiting for the eight ball.

Again, it wouldn't have to be super precise, but it would be a good way of highlighting the emotional ebb and flow of the game to the average viewer.
 
Da Poet said:
My ideas have more to do with television coverage for attracting a new audience.



- Get more HD broadcasts at all costs.

- Players should have a designated color shirt or vest for each match to assist in player identification.

- There should be a permanent overhead graphic that shows name of player, pre match odds, who's turn it is, and whether they are stripes or solids, and real time percentage to win game as explained below.

- One of the drawbacks of pool on televison is that it is next to impossible for the casual viewer to tell who is winning the game just by seeing the balls on the table. A real time percentage of who is likely to win the game should be posted during the duration of the match.

Real time percentage to win game would look similar to percentages during poker coverage and could be placed on the screen throughout the game wherever appropriate. The best way to descibe it is to use the following example.

Player A and B prepare to lag for break.

Player A - 50%
Player B - 50%

Player B wins lag

Player A - 40%
Player B - 60%

Player B breaks, makes 1 ball and the spread looks good for a run out.

Player A - 25%
Player B - 75%

(The important thing here is not absolute precision, it's based on a reasonable judgement within 5 percent or so)

Player B makes next shot, leaves good position

Player A - 22%
Player B - 78%

Player B , makes next shot, leaves less than best position

Player A - 30%
Player B - 70%

Player B, makes next shot but drifts into horrible position freezing up on an opponents ball.

Player A - 65%
Player B - 35%

This is important because I think most of your casual viewers would think that making a ball is automatically good.

This system would be a way for new viewers to keep up with what is happening without needing years of pool knowledge.

This system would be a good way to interest viewers into what is happening at the moment as opposed to waiting for the eight ball.

Again, it wouldn't have to be super precise, but it would be a good way of highlighting the emotional ebb and flow of the game to the average viewer.
Click to expand...

Da Poet,

I like your thinking, nice ideas. I also think that the balls should be similar to english 8 ball in that there should be two colors of balls, could be red and yellow or IPT choose colors to make here balls unique. Makes it a lot easier to see paterns and the table layout IMO
 
Da Poet said:
My ideas have more to do with television coverage for attracting a new audience.



- Get more HD broadcasts at all costs.

- Players should have a designated color shirt or vest for each match to assist in player identification.

- There should be a permanent overhead graphic that shows name of player, pre match odds, who's turn it is, and whether they are stripes or solids, and real time percentage to win game as explained below.

- One of the drawbacks of pool on televison is that it is next to impossible for the casual viewer to tell who is winning the game just by seeing the balls on the table. A real time percentage of who is likely to win the game should be posted during the duration of the match.

Real time percentage to win game would look similar to percentages during poker coverage and could be placed on the screen throughout the game wherever appropriate. The best way to descibe it is to use the following example.

Player A and B prepare to lag for break.

Player A - 50%
Player B - 50%

Player B wins lag

Player A - 40%
Player B - 60%

Player B breaks, makes 1 ball and the spread looks good for a run out.

Player A - 25%
Player B - 75%

(The important thing here is not absolute precision, it's based on a reasonable judgement within 5 percent or so)

Player B makes next shot, leaves good position

Player A - 22%
Player B - 78%

Player B , makes next shot, leaves less than best position

Player A - 30%
Player B - 70%

Player B, makes next shot but drifts into horrible position freezing up on an opponents ball.

Player A - 65%
Player B - 35%

This is important because I think most of your casual viewers would think that making a ball is automatically good.

This system would be a way for new viewers to keep up with what is happening without needing years of pool knowledge.

This system would be a good way to interest viewers into what is happening at the moment as opposed to waiting for the eight ball.

Again, it wouldn't have to be super precise, but it would be a good way of highlighting the emotional ebb and flow of the game to the average viewer.
Click to expand...


Neat idea.:D
 
Aw c'mon, ya got to admit it was fun for a while. You even got $5,000 from them. And look at all the fun they provided for us old farts here on the internet. What else would we be doing? Counting our money again?

If not for them no one would have known you or Purdman or Mike and how rich you guys are.

Of course now all these great players will be putting the bite on you guys for a loan.
 
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Sale of the IPT would be best, but either way it's starting to look like KT needs to step away from being front and center and let another person run the IPT, clearly anything he does will be looked at as a scam or magnified 10,000 %.

KT needs to be less involved and find a person to head the IPT, he also needs to bring expectations down to earth, even if he feels he can obtain those goals, when you stat them as fact others will hold you to it.

Now he has the fact that he said everyone would get 100,000 next year when he hasn't even paid for Reno, he also said everyone would be paid at the events and made it clear other promoters were a joke. Big mistake to make those calls.

He could have and should have stated payment will be by check, within 30 days, would have caused a lot less image damage.

The IPT needs to reorganize if it's to continue and the players need to set up a players organization with a president, and each country should have a members president to report to.

Foundations first, flash and cash latter.

.
 
Now who in the world do you think the players would follow? For the most part they are just street savy deadbeats who only think of themselves.

Timberly posted the rap sheet/charges of KT. I suppose next she will start posting the rap sheets of pool players. Now that sure would make for interesting reading.
 
I got the answer!

shanesinnott said:
There are a ton of threads that give people the opportunity to knock the IPT and be negative. I would like to suggest a thread to try and help the IPT. Like many others, I have read most if not all of the posts in the IPT section on AZ and am very aware of the issues regarding non payment etc. I would like to respectfully ask that if you feel that you have a positive suggestion that might help the IPT move forward from this moment, then post it, if you have something negative to say with nothing positive, then I again respectively ask that you post the negative comment in another thread.

I am not attempting to be a cheerleader for the IPT (far from it) I am simply asking for suggestions to help the IPT stay in business. If you feel they are beyond help and it is done, then dont post. I am not asking for people to tell us it is done, I am asking for people to post how they think they can or could help KT and company make it work.

As fans of pool (which I am guessing most if not all of the posters on AZ are) I know that we want pro pool to flourish. We want players to make money and we want the industry to grow.

We know that Deno and most likely KT read this forum so why not try and help them. I am NOT suggesting that we just talk about how great the IPT is or how bad the IPT or KT or Deno are, I am merely suggesting that some of the people on this board could give some very good suggestions to the IPT on how they could go from here to make the tour a success.

If I could bend the ear of KT I would have many suggestions to him as to what I would do from this point forward. Honesty is a big one. I have always felt that it is very important to be honest with the people that I do business with. Admission of guilt, when you screw up, say you screwed up and dont try and cloud the truth with half truthes or lies. Most people are not stupid, you can make this tour successful but you have to be honest with the people you are dealing with and honest with your self about what you can or can't do or promise.

If you dont have the money to pay the players in full then let them know, but also try and come up with a solution that will get them paid. Don't lie about it, just tell them the way it is. Respect has to be earned and players will respect you if you are straight up with them.

This forum is a place of tremendous knowledge. KT mentioned in the BD article posted by Mike yesterday that:
"This is going to be a situation where over the next few years this business is going to change and evolve. We’re going to be learning about market conditions, the industry, etc."

What better way to learn about market conditions and the industry than from people on this board. It takes two people to communicate so why not post on the forum? Why not address specific issues brought up here? Why not learn from the many posters on this board with great insight ideas and experience? The people on this forum can have a DIRECT effect on the number of qualifier entrants both in a positive way and a negative way. The power of referrals in the Billiard Industry is huge, trust me on this one. You have a resource here at AZ that is not being used effectively.

I have many other suggestions but I have to get back to work.

Rome was not built in a day and I know that the serious issues that the IPT currently faces will not be fixed with this thread but maybe some of the suggestions might be something that the IPT will use and maybe, just maybe this thing can be saved and it would be pretty cool if some of the posters on AZ were able to help make it happen...because I know we can help, so lets hear it.
Click to expand...

Kevin can form a partnership with the WPA, pay all sanctioning fees to the WPA, help fund all other WPA events in the World, and every organization
will be more than happy to help KT come out of this mess!

They (IPT) have already contacted many of the billiard organizations of the World to ask for assistance in making the IPT sucessfull, so the solution to their problems is really in their hands.
 
bailing out the IPT

I had a revelation today that would involve me bailing out the IPT by putting around 8 mil through its coffers but..........


When I put further thought into the subject I asked myself... What did KT tell me when we last spoke. He stated that the IPT would be self sufficient and didn't need anyone else that was already involved in our sport.

I sit back today and wonder............... What If ?

What if he would have sat down and listened to my ideas.. The ideas and lessons I have learned from others and my very own past mistakes. What if the IPT opened it's arms and asked the billiard community for assistance just to make sure the dream of the IPT is a success.


What if,

Somebody, someone or even a group had the idea that would put it all together and make it work ?

What if ?


KT, ask yourself if it's worth listening to now, call me.







If you were wondering. YES, this is buried deep inside all the IPT posts for a reason.
 
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Why didn't KT seek advice from other people in the industry? Probably because no one has a tour that is financially sound and making money.

What makes everyone think he didn't get input from other people? Like Mike Sigel, Nick Varner, Rempe, Orsetti (Sp) and a few others.

Being in the inner circle maybe Rempe knew something and that is why he didn't show up for Reno. How many times have you heard a pool player not show up for a chance to win big money because he has a tummy ache?

Perhaps KT's advisors want to remain behind the scenes. Especially now.

Any fool can tell KT how to spend money. What he needed was advice in how the IPT would be able to generate money. Even now people talk about a tour but they can't show how money will come into the tour except players paying a fee and room owners donating their room and money.

If they have some sound ideas perhaps they should share them with Mike Janis, Charlie Williams, John DiToro, Mike Zuglan, Tom Kennedy, etc. I'm sure they would be willing to listen. Or would they.

Jake
 
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I dont know if the IPT itself is really salvageable. Maybe if a company, kinda like when Camel had it, bought the tour or started a new one, it may work. Ofcourse, the payment structure will have to be adjusted....atleast until the tour grows. And, this may not be too popular with some, but I think that having tournaments that the Men and Women play in together will help. Its no secret of the marketing success and the popularity of the WPBA. Since its the sport that we need to save, I think that the women can help bring in fans, sponsors, etc. to help the tour grow. Also, I think keeping it 8 ball will help with the popularity too. JMO.

Southpaw
 
SlimShafty said:
The IPT needs to reorganize if it's to continue and the players need to set up a players organization with a president, and each country should have a members president to report to.

Foundations first, flash and cash latter.
Click to expand...

Good suggestions, thanks.
 
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