Suggestions to Improve Tornado Open

JAM

I am the storm
Silver Member
This thread is to provide suggestions or constructive critique on how to make this event better and stronger next time. This thread is not meant to bash the event or the promoter. If you want to do that, there's another thread already started for that.

My suggestion would be to create better overhead lighting over the individual tables. Pool players can zone in better when there is an overhead light instead of the entire room being lit.

Anybody else have thoughts? It would be nice to hear from those who were there, if they could weigh in on this thread.
 
Thanks a huge start Jam. I have played on tables with no direct lighting. I call it a 'cafeteria'. Makes the game weird.

The other thing I noticed was the venue seems better suited for a boxing match or Three Dog Night concert. How many spectators were they expecting ?

Have a good day,

-Kat,
 
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Suggestion for the 2017 Tornado Open:

1. Down size scale - No need to hold an event like this in a sports arena. Go get a decent pool room with all the facilities already in place... :thumb:

2. DO NOT add $100,000 - This makes NO business sense to a new business start up... :thumb:

3. Either be a promoter or a TD or a participating player. Do not try to do more than is possible... :thumb:

4. Promote the event better... :thumb:

5. Market the event to a wider audience, perhaps by holding qualifiers... :thumb:

That's all from me. Anything else; Pay me! :thumbup:
 
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Suggestion for the 2017 Tornado Open:

1. Down size scale - No need to hold an event like this in a sports arena. Go get a decent pool room with all the facilities already in place... :thumb:

2. DO NOT add $100,000 - This makes NO business sense to a new business start up... :thumb:

3. Either be a promoter or a TD or a participating player. Do not try to do more than is possible... :thumb:

4. Promote the event better... :thumb:

5. Market the event to a wider audience, perhaps by holding qualifiers... :thumb:

That's all from me. Anything else; Pay me! :thumbup:

These are great suggestions! :cool:
 
Running of the event

Here are some things that I think would also help. Create a schedule of matches. They do this at the Brickyard in Indy for the Midwest 9-ball Classic. You know that each match is to last about 60-90 minutes. Thus, go ahead and put times down and ask that players show up fifteen minutes prior to the scheduled match time in the event the match can start sooner. Also have a plan with respect to the order in which the matches will be called in advance. Players do not want to be sitting around for 2-5 hours waiting for their next match. They want to go do other things, go sleep, go eat, go play in the casino, go sight-seeing, etc. Also, if there is a way to take the cell phone numbers so that a text can be sent when your match is in line to be called on the next available table...that would be awesome.

The lighting was not as critical as the lack of space around the tables for the amateurs, although the lighting did take some getting used to. I was continually hitting things with the butt of my cue on the back-swing because of there being too little distance between the tables separating the walkways from the playing tables and from the playing tables to the stands surrounding the streaming area.

Apart from the scheduling of matches...the length of the races for the Amateur 9-ball event was slightly too short...I think it should have been a race to 9 (or higher) on both sides instead of race to 7 for playing 9-ball. I would have much rather preferred playing 10-ball race to 7 using CSI rules (call pocket as opposed to call shot). I would have also like to have had a player auction. But, I did enjoy playing in the event. She is trying to create a brand and an event that attracts international players of the highest level. It will take a lot of ironing out to get it right...look at the U.S. 9-ball Open.
 
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Help

2 things.Scott Smith run it with Pat Fleming ,do the scheduling,draw,charts and times! And handle the payouts,vendors, door ,gate and online info,seating then it runs Smooth.Smooth.Rich aka the skunk! B
 
make it free live streaming. im kidding! im kidding! :grin-square:
 
Thank you to those who made suggestions.

It seems as if it's easier to criticize than it is to come with ways for improvement.

Negative threads receive more contributions than positive ones in Forum Land. :)
 
It's not that the people are negative...
The people know they will receive no credit for their ideas, knowledge and expertise.
In the real business world, this is not the case.
:thumbup:
 
This thread is to provide suggestions or constructive critique on how to make this event better and stronger next time. This thread is not meant to bash the event or the promoter. If you want to do that, there's another thread already started for that.

My suggestion would be to create better overhead lighting over the individual tables. Pool players can zone in better when there is an overhead light instead of the entire room being lit.

Anybody else have thoughts? It would be nice to hear from those who were there, if they could weigh in on this thread.
First off I would like to thank the Seminole Tribe and Vivian for their hard work and commitment to pooI. I have no axe to grind but in all honesty, the tournament did have some petty basic problems. Not what you would expect from a 3rd year of doing it. I support pool, attend many tournaments and between travel, hotel and $250 for VIP seating I spent over $1,000 to attend this tournament. There were a number of obvious issues.

1 - player names were not put on the tables. I know most pro's but there were some locals in the pro event and lot's of players in the amateur event that it would have been nice to have names so you knew who was playing.

2 - scores were not posted where you could see them. The flip type scoring on the floor tables faced away from spectator seating so you couldn't see them. Who would watch a football game if you didn't know the teams or the score? Fortunately, the streamer saved the day for the 4 center tables as I could go online and get scoring updates on my iPhone even though I was sitting 5 feet from the match. I witnessed spectators asking players what the score was more than once.

3 - the electronic brackets are a great idea but only showed some of the bracket, you had to ask the people up on the stage to scroll up or down & they weren't too happy about that

4 - there were no times posted on the bracket for future matches so you couldn't figure out who was playing when or where

5 - While this issue did not impact me because I had VIP seating, I noticed that people who bought "Floor Access" couldn't see the 4 feature tables unless they went up into the bleachers to see over the heads of the people in VIP seating. There was "Bleacher" seating, "Floor" seating and "VIP" seating in ascending pricing so people who paid more for floor access couldn't see the 4 featured tables where all the finals were played unless they went to the least expensive seats.

6 - The venue was just too big. I was there every day and there were more empty seats than full seats in the VIP and Floor sections. The bleachers were at about 3% or 5% full at peak so 95% of the seating was empty! Who likes empty restaurants, dance floors or bars? Kudos to them for doing the tournament but I think they hurt themselves by having it in the main room. I look forward to the day we can do a tournament in a venue that large, but, that is not now.

Lastly just a personal opinion about streaming in general. Based on what I have learned from speaking with several prominent streamers the concept of Pay Per View streaming is just not viable. A free stream of a good event can get 40 or 50 times the number viewers and can in fact add up to some respectable numbers. When Netflix charges $10 a month it is hard for a pool fan to justify $30 a weekend ($120 a month) to watch pool. While Vivian may only put on one event a year, people watching streaming pool events watch them every chance they get so the cost can add up pretty quickly. At least this streamer puts out multiple matches at the same time so you can always watch a match that interests you. For what it is worth, I think promoters need to look at the TV model and try to make their money on streaming off of sponsors and advertisers as opposed to paid subscription.

Again, thanks to the Seminole Tribe and Vivian, regardless of any shortcomings, you are doing something positive for the sport and I hope you continue.

Joel
 
Total Prize Pool

Here’s an idea that I’d like to see implemented in ALL tournaments; advertise the total prize pool instead of any “added money” amounts.

For example, I could advertise the “New 9-ball Open” with a $200 entry fee and a $20,000 total prize pool with a field of 128 players and $190/player for every player entered after the first 128. This way, anyone could do the math to see what the total prize fund is as soon as the brackets have been set. For fields that don’t fill, or to get an idea how much the prize pool will be before the brackets are set, you could advertise a prize fund of $180/player for 101-127 players, $170/player for 76-100, $160/player for 51-76, etc… You get the idea.

Keep in mind, these numbers are just examples as I don’t have any idea how much a promoter would want or expect to make.

Pax,

Taek
 
First, I wasn't there but from the other thread I understand it wasn't a raging success, but that can fixed. From the photos and the comments I get that one of the general thoughts is that the venue was just too big. Even if the place had sold out there would still be the lighting issue. Pool is a kind of an intimate game so individual table lighting is essential. I might suggest still keeping it out of a pool hall but taking it to a different venue. Also, I've read a couple of things that implied that some of the posted rules may have been altered just prior to the event, I might suggest that the posted rules prior to the event be maintained, and if that's not a possibility then also post that the tournament administrative board reserves the right.... and prize money needs to be secured and placed in a trust or a bond as far prior to the event as possible
I would also suggest that the event be run side by side with something else, a Poker event, an amateur event, a bar box event, and finally a kick off function like a night before party or something social. It looks like enthusiasm for this event was a little low. The brackets and the spectator seats both need to be populated, any of these will help.
Right now it's sounding as if nobody wants to play in this event should it happen again next year when they should really be looking forward to coming back the following year. Turn it into the "Pool Christmas", make it the central event on the American Pool calendar so that you're turning people away instead of counting them on one hand
 
First, I wasn't there but from the other thread I understand it wasn't a raging success, but that can fixed. From the photos and the comments I get that one of the general thoughts is that the venue was just too big. Even if the place had sold out there would still be the lighting issue. Pool is a kind of an intimate game so individual table lighting is essential. I might suggest still keeping it out of a pool hall but taking it to a different venue. Also, I've read a couple of things that implied that some of the posted rules may have been altered just prior to the event, I might suggest that the posted rules prior to the event be maintained, and if that's not a possibility then also post that the tournament administrative board reserves the right.... and prize money needs to be secured and placed in a trust or a bond as far prior to the event as possible
I would also suggest that the event be run side by side with something else, a Poker event, an amateur event, a bar box event, and finally a kick off function like a night before party or something social. It looks like enthusiasm for this event was a little low. The brackets and the spectator seats both need to be populated, any of these will help.
Right now it's sounding as if nobody wants to play in this event should it happen again next year when they should really be looking forward to coming back the following year. Turn it into the "Pool Christmas", make it the central event on the American Pool calendar so that you're turning people away instead of counting them on one hand

I've always thought a pro-am blind draw scotch doubles tournaments would boost fun and increase attendance. When you buy a ticket, for say $10 or $20 extra, you get a lottery ticket. 32 audience winners get picked and paired randomly with a pro. Then have a short race tournament mostly for fun. Maybe APA style modified single elimination so everyone gets at least two matches but it doesn't take too long. The pros would be doing it not so much for profit but to help fuel the audience and benefit the vendors, which justifies the added money.
 
I've always thought a pro-am blind draw scotch doubles tournaments would boost fun and increase attendance. When you buy a ticket, for say $10 or $20 extra, you get a lottery ticket. 32 audience winners get picked and paired randomly with a pro. Then have a short race tournament mostly for fun. Maybe APA style modified single elimination so everyone gets at least two matches but it doesn't take too long. The pros would be doing it not so much for profit but to help fuel the audience and benefit the vendors, which justifies the added money.

Charity event? Something local
 
Scotch Doubles 10 Ball
1. Vivian V. & Dennis O. $14,000
2. Allison F. & John Morra $6,700
3. Karen C. & Corey Deuel $5,200

Men's 10 Ball Open
1. Shane Van Boening $15.000
2. Josh Roberts. $9,000
3. Warren Kiamco $6,700

Women's Pro 10 Ball
1. Kelly Fisher $13,000
2. Ga Young Kim $9,000
3. Allison Fisher $6,000

Men's Amateur 9 Ball
1. Jimmy Gestwicki $4,600
2. Louis Altes. $2,800
3. Kyle Bova. $1,300

Women's Amateur 9 Ball
1. Christi Norris $2,800
2. Bonnie Coats $2,000
3. Bev Ashton $1,050

Despite some issues, it looks like there were some decent payouts- and I have not heard anyone complain about not being paid at the venue. Looks like they pay was higher than the Super Billiards Expo (at least at the top end). Not bad for a newer tournament.
I hope they bone up on the administrative end of it and I think this could be a success.
There have been some valid points already. Here are a few thoughts:
Area lightning for the playing area only would be great. I wonder if there are curtains that could be used to close off the top half off the arena to keep it from looking so empty? Less lighting here helps.
Promotion can always be improved. I would suggest sending out flyers to the league operators throughout the area. Perhaps send a branded packet for feeder tournaments where league only players could win paid entry for the pro event. What an experience that would be!
Make sure there is information posted throughout the casino advertising the event. You never know who might wander in.
Build it to stream. XPC is top-notch. Set up at a price point where you build a worldwide audience that follows the tours. Would've been nice to see some of the later amateur matches, but with different table sizes that would've been tough.

I hope the program continues to improve and would love to see a FL tour again.
 
Despite some issues, it looks like there were some decent payouts- and I have not heard anyone complain about not being paid at the venue. Looks like they pay was higher than the Super Billiards Expo (at least at the top end). Not bad for a newer tournament.
I hope they bone up on the administrative end of it and I think this could be a success.
There have been some valid points already. Here are a few thoughts:
Area lightning for the playing area only would be great. I wonder if there are curtains that could be used to close off the top half off the arena to keep it from looking so empty? Less lighting here helps.
Promotion can always be improved. I would suggest sending out flyers to the league operators throughout the area. Perhaps send a branded packet for feeder tournaments where league only players could win paid entry for the pro event. What an experience that would be!
Make sure there is information posted throughout the casino advertising the event. You never know who might wander in.
Build it to stream. XPC is top-notch. Set up at a price point where you build a worldwide audience that follows the tours. Would've been nice to see some of the later amateur matches, but with different table sizes that would've been tough.

I hope the program continues to improve and would love to see a FL tour again.

That is not true. There was players in the amateur events early that cashed and had to leave back home for work (hence, amateur) and were not paid on time. I guess a check in the mail is coming. Completely unacceptable, theres no way to justify it, absolutely zero.
 
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