Not at all, but if you win the open one time you are not allowed to play in it again.
Super Billiards Ban from Playing!
- Thread starter ga9ball
- Start date
Not at all, but if you win the open one time you are not allowed to play in it again.
The open or the amateur open?
What defines professional in billiards? Looking at a variety of sports and activities - professional is basically defined as someone that has accepted cash payment for their performance at any point in time. You can never take amateur status from someone, but someone can lose accept a move away from amateur status by accepting cash in a sanctioned event at any time. Key word: sanctioned. I don't know how the sanctioning body in billiards works.
Once you've accepted cash in a sanctioned event, you lose your amateur status by your own choice. I agree with the statement that in order to be "PROFESSIONAL" you need to make a certain amount of money, but in most cases a "professional" division is an "open" division, any and all comers are welcome to challenge for the money. If you make money playing open, you're no longer amateur, whether you're professional or not.
I don't know how it works in billiards, but that makes sense to me.
Once you've accepted cash in a sanctioned event, you lose your amateur status by your own choice. I agree with the statement that in order to be "PROFESSIONAL" you need to make a certain amount of money, but in most cases a "professional" division is an "open" division, any and all comers are welcome to challenge for the money. If you make money playing open, you're no longer amateur, whether you're professional or not.
I don't know how it works in billiards, but that makes sense to me.
Chris,
By your definition, every player at the APA, VNEA, ACS, USAPL, BCAPL, NAPA, SBE and all other sanctioned events who cashes is a professional. Not a very realistic definition. There was a time when there were strict guidelines. As the "pro" tour dissolved, that definition went away. Today, not one of the major amateur sanctioning bodies describes what and who a professional player is. Why? My best guess is it limits the number of eligible players at an event.
Several years ago, BCAPL created the Grand Masters division. Take a look at any of the players entered in the event at Nationals. SVB, Appleton and others have participated. Asked Mr Griffin why. His answer, to the best of my recollection, was "to give the "pro" players an additional opportunity to make money while in Vegas for other events". Remember the BCAPL Nationals is an amateur event.
The line is so blurred that no one really knows how many true professional players there are in North America today. Does anyone really care?
Lyn
So I'm a C player. I won a hundred bucks last night getting 2 on the wire in a race to 7. Does accepting that money make me a professional?
That has been said and for the most part is true. However Chris Loar played in the open this year and got 5th/6th I believe. He won it in 2008ish as I recall.
takeitdown
Banned
Yeah and Antinokos gets 550 at Turning Stone and its made into a DQ. Just plain BS favoritism. No doubt some knucklehead at the tournament desk made a snap decision. the wrong one.
I had an inkling that that was the case - though based only on limited research time. I think that the primary issue has to do with a fact that I've seen thrown around a lot thanks to a recent Grantland.com article - "pool." People jump into pool, whether they're bangers or not, ready to start throwing money on tables because that is the culture. Nobody wants to jump into a competition and not make money when they've been able to do so for years.
What this brings to mind is a conversation I had with a hall owner here in Toledo a few weeks ago. He was talking about sandbaggers in tournaments and I asked him what the payouts were like "by division" and he looked at me like I was crazy. He said that the payouts were all the same, depending on number of participants and buy in - the payout percentages were the same.
Is this generally the case at the nationally sanctioned level or no? For example lets say you've got three divisions at an event. I would have the top amateur division pay in more, and then on down through the levels. But even the top amateur level has a deep payout and the winners don't win as much as the pro division.
So lets say we have a Pro division, 10 competitors, $50 buy in each (just using small and simple numbers, I understand they're generally bigger!)
Payout: 60%-30%-10% (so $300, $150, $50)
Top Amateur? 10 competitors, $40 buy in each.
Payout: 45%-30%-15%-10% ($180-$120-$60-$40)
Mid Amateur? 10, 35
Payout: 35%-30%-20%-10%-5% (122.50-105-70-35-17.50)
Low Amateur? 10, 30
Payout this time to six. And you all get the picture.
Do they do anything similar with deeper payouts, lower entry fees, and less to the winner at the national level? Or any level of the game? I'm going off of my experience in disc golf of course, and with that I'd also be a proponent of merch payouts instead of cash payouts to amateurs as well. Merch payouts help keep vendors and competition sites in business by providing a profit for running the event, on top of beer and liquor sales.
Again I am not saying POOL SHOULD GO TO THIS! I am asking if billiards has any ideas similar to this that have been implemented? And does this look like a good idea to people? A bad idea? A horrendous idea? How could it be tweaked to apply to a billiards environment?
Note that my post did specify sanctioned events.
Everybody in every skill game plays for money on the side, and there's no way for anyone to regulate personal side action outside of their sanctioned events.
I checked the archives back to 2005 and cant find where he won. I do kinda remember him winning though.
Time goes by so fast, seems like it was 5 years to me.
Congrats on making the pros!
I just want to say that I have followed the joss tour and other loal tours around the north east for about 5 years or so now. I played in th sbe in 2009 and 2012 and loved everything about it. top level players do get through the cracks some how. I see many of the top players from joss tour in and out of sbe year after year. I played nelson oliviera 4 years ago and got spanked, I consider myself a strong b player on a bar box. he is very good player and nothing personal against him what so ever ( very respectful towards me) but I would put him right there with greg's caliber. He does not make a living from pool and neither does greg. There are plenty of players like them, very good but not "pro". let people play!
People traveling the u.s. playing for G,s and making a living even though they dont shoot in big tourny's, still "pro". most of us here know who I'm talking about. One was mentioned earlier, initials, C.C.. his touring buddy, J. G. is on the list,
Definitely needs to be a better way of deciding who is pro and who is not. If you are out there playing races for G's?, come on people , you dont need to be robbing the amatuer events.
People traveling the u.s. playing for G,s and making a living even though they dont shoot in big tourny's, still "pro". most of us here know who I'm talking about. One was mentioned earlier, initials, C.C.. his touring buddy, J. G. is on the list,
Definitely needs to be a better way of deciding who is pro and who is not. If you are out there playing races for G's?, come on people , you dont need to be robbing the amatuer events.
Chip Compton, how good can he be? Why, earlier today on Facebook, I saw an ad about some sort of challenge match he's about to be involved in....
....with Darren Appleton
And, is most likely a favorite over Darren playing one pocket!
Banks
Banned
He's had some decent finishes, but I couldn't find anything on his azb listing that would suggest he's not the underdog. Darren has shown improved results every year and could shoot the nuts off a chipmunk at midnight. I'll wait for the action to pop up in the week prior, if I can remember it.
:smile:
Funny Dave got first and Big Ed got second in the Seniors Division.
They used to travel together a long time ago and whoop up on me and my friends.
SBE Ban!
I wrote this post for one reason only, and that was to try and come up with a better way to judge a players caliber!
The only way Pool can survive is to have players competing locally in their regional events such as the Joss Northeast 9 Ball tour which l have played for years!
Turning Stone being are top event attracts many local players, as well as some top pro players. Many of the regular members realize they have no chance of winning, but they and myself included love to try and snap off one great player!
I have made this a Family outing for my Wife & Son's as well as many friends who come to watch. I will continue to attend as long as I am not a complete embarrassment.
I want to apologize for using the words Snitch & Drop a Dime, but in my bit of anger, it does upset me that the staff told me many people went up and complained solely about my status. Very sorry if I offended anyone.
I did not write this to bash Allen Hopkin's for he has done more for Pool than most, and l have personally relayed this to him on many occasions!
You simply can not rate a Joss event, even though it is probably the best Pool Tournament in the world, run perfectly by Mike Zuglan, with Top Tier Pro events.
If you cash here, and then get put in Pro status, then the players will avoid local tournaments for fear of losing Amateur status.
This happened to me 2 years ago, and l talked with Allen about this, and he promised to remove Turning Stone as criteria for SBE. Allen did remove it, and l played in the Senior Amateur last year, and that is why l never even thought about my status again.
So for those who will just Post the eligibility list, and want to make it cut and dry, l am not buying it!
I think that Senior players have paid their dues, and should be allowed to compete regionally, as well as SBE!
I would be the first to rank myself as a Pro if I truly was, and nothing would personally be more satisfying if l could get there, but unfortunately it never happened : (
My Father owned a Pool Room for over 25 years, as well as a Billiard Supply business. I currently sell Pool cues, and have supported pool all my life. Please have some common courtesy to those that have payed their dues in this business.
I want to thank all who have posted in this thread publicly, either way you look at it! It is a public forum, and only a true discussion will solve the problem.
I also want to thank the many friends who have called, and written me privately!!!
Most of all to my Family, you are the light of my life!
To my good friends, thank you for your constant support!
As to Allen, I know he will be upset, as I am too, but I still consider you a pioneer of Pool, and hope we can come to a proper solution so this does not happen again!
Best regards,
Greg Antonakos
AMERICAN CUE PICKERS ON FACEBOOK
GREG ANTONAKOS
SERIOUS BUYER/COLLECTOR OF SOUTH WEST CUES
Contact Info:ga9ball@gmail.com
845-489-4122
I wrote this post for one reason only, and that was to try and come up with a better way to judge a players caliber!
The only way Pool can survive is to have players competing locally in their regional events such as the Joss Northeast 9 Ball tour which l have played for years!
Turning Stone being are top event attracts many local players, as well as some top pro players. Many of the regular members realize they have no chance of winning, but they and myself included love to try and snap off one great player!
I have made this a Family outing for my Wife & Son's as well as many friends who come to watch. I will continue to attend as long as I am not a complete embarrassment.
I want to apologize for using the words Snitch & Drop a Dime, but in my bit of anger, it does upset me that the staff told me many people went up and complained solely about my status. Very sorry if I offended anyone.
I did not write this to bash Allen Hopkin's for he has done more for Pool than most, and l have personally relayed this to him on many occasions!
You simply can not rate a Joss event, even though it is probably the best Pool Tournament in the world, run perfectly by Mike Zuglan, with Top Tier Pro events.
If you cash here, and then get put in Pro status, then the players will avoid local tournaments for fear of losing Amateur status.
This happened to me 2 years ago, and l talked with Allen about this, and he promised to remove Turning Stone as criteria for SBE. Allen did remove it, and l played in the Senior Amateur last year, and that is why l never even thought about my status again.
So for those who will just Post the eligibility list, and want to make it cut and dry, l am not buying it!
I think that Senior players have paid their dues, and should be allowed to compete regionally, as well as SBE!
I would be the first to rank myself as a Pro if I truly was, and nothing would personally be more satisfying if l could get there, but unfortunately it never happened : (
My Father owned a Pool Room for over 25 years, as well as a Billiard Supply business. I currently sell Pool cues, and have supported pool all my life. Please have some common courtesy to those that have payed their dues in this business.
I want to thank all who have posted in this thread publicly, either way you look at it! It is a public forum, and only a true discussion will solve the problem.
I also want to thank the many friends who have called, and written me privately!!!
Most of all to my Family, you are the light of my life!
To my good friends, thank you for your constant support!
As to Allen, I know he will be upset, as I am too, but I still consider you a pioneer of Pool, and hope we can come to a proper solution so this does not happen again!
Best regards,
Greg Antonakos
AMERICAN CUE PICKERS ON FACEBOOK
GREG ANTONAKOS
SERIOUS BUYER/COLLECTOR OF SOUTH WEST CUES
Contact Info:ga9ball@gmail.com
845-489-4122