Super Glue Finish

B

bkkpool

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I am relatively new to cue making and I have been experimenting with various finishes that can be applied without a spray booth. I have used various urethanes, acrylics, polyurethanes, lacquer and last night super glue. I applied an epoxy sealer to the cue and sand with 400 grit until it is absolutely smooth with no flaws. I then applied many coats (lost count) of super glue and then proceeded to wet sand up to 2000 grit. I then buffed and applied a wax but my final results are not as desired. I would classify the final finish as a semi-gloss and not a mirror like shine that I have seen others achieve with this method. I do not know if I am using an incorrect buffing compound, spinning the cue at the wrong RPM or whatever. Can someone share their methods, buffing compound and lathe rpm.

Thanks,
Brian
 
bkkpool said:
I am relatively new to cue making and I have been experimenting with various finishes that can be applied without a spray booth. I have used various urethanes, acrylics, polyurethanes, lacquer and last night super glue. I applied an epoxy sealer to the cue and sand with 400 grit until it is absolutely smooth with no flaws. I then applied many coats (lost count) of super glue and then proceeded to wet sand up to 2000 grit. I then buffed and applied a wax but my final results are not as desired. I would classify the final finish as a semi-gloss and not a mirror like shine that I have seen others achieve with this method. I do not know if I am using an incorrect buffing compound, spinning the cue at the wrong RPM or whatever. Can someone share their methods, buffing compound and lathe rpm.

Thanks,
Brian
Click to expand...

CA glue dries much harder than a normal automotive clear coat. I would recomend buying a micro-mesh kit and wet sand the cue with the 3200 to 12000 grit papers and then polish with a glaze. 3M Trizact would probably work nicely.
 
I aggree with murray, Micro mesh, and a good polishing compound are key. The compound is what really brings the shine out in the end. Also if you get any craters with white sanding dust in them and finish over it without blowing out & cleaning good, It may leave spots under the finish that you can only get out By sanding through to It.
I pretty much limit the use of Ca to spotting in, restoring the shaft joint areas, and finishing some joint caps now days.

I have tried The Deft lacquer in the spray can before, and it worked very well for me with a good sealer and many coats, altough it is not as hard of a finish, but may be easier to work with. Maybe a couple of thin coats of ca over that would make a decent finish that's fairly durable.
The deft also goes on thin simular to a HVLP, so may be good practice for when you're setup to spray.

Greg
 
I have spent a lot of time on the CA finish. It has it's pros and cons. Not as rich and mirror like as the urethane, but much easier and quicker to do once you are good at it. It can be done though, and with good enough results that most people (non-cuemakers, that is) cannot tell you it's not urethane.

It is NOT easy to get the scratches out. I have gotten good results sanding side to side with some 2k or 4k paper before buffing. It seems to get most of the scratches out, though the buffing is really the key.

When buffing, I am a firm believer that there is this "perfect" combination of speed and pressure with the buffing cloth. You can go both too fast and too slow. You can apply both too much and not enough pressure. I am not exaclty sure how to explain how to get the perfect mixture, but when you hit it, you will know... if that helps.

The buffing cloth matters. It has to be smooth and soft. CA scratches easier than you think, and a dirty cloth or abrasive cloth will render you buffing indefinitely with no success. If you can believe this, I have had very good luck using plain VIVA paper towels on CA. As simple as that is, they are all that and a bag of chips when it comes to buffing. I fold the paper towel long ways 4 times, and hit the cue with the compound, then flip the towel and buff it off. Throw that towel away, get a new one and repeat, thereby always using a new, clean towel.

Also, you can't buff with the same application of compound for very long. I have gotten best results when you apply a little compound, buff it quickly, then move to a dry spot on the towel and clean it off.... then repeat.

Don't know what else to tell you except that if you are close to Tulsa, Oklahoma, you are welcome to come watch me do it.

Wow... just typing this reply convinces me that this subject is deserving of a book. If I write one, would you guys buy it? LOL
 
Brian:

This is how I finish cues and guitar necks (they get wear and tear similiar to a cue) with a base coat of Super Glue.
1. Sand to 600 grit longwise (always longwise using a half round sanding block that matches the contour of your forearm or butt). Do this anytime you use sandpaper as it flattens out the surface and makes the finish appear deeper.
2. If dyeing the wood raise the grain with a water spritzer, lightly sand w/600 grit, BLOW or VACUUM out any dust, water dye (do not use stain as it suppresses the grain) and resand w/1000 grit.
3. Coat with Super Glue (stewmac.com PN 0010) to seal the dye/wood.
sand w/600 and 1000 grit and do same again.
4. Apply 4 coats of Birchwood Casey Gunstock oil (this enhances the grain and gives it depth) and sand between coats with "000" steel wool.
5. Apply 6 or more coats of auto clear coat UV resistant finish. You can buy it in a spray can at a good body shop supplier. I use brand name "U-POL Clear #1".
You can apply all 6 coats at one setting--just wait about 15 minutes to let it tack up. Sometimes I rotate the cue real slow and heat the clear coat with a heat gun to flatten it out. If it goes on real flat you can skip this step. If you wait more than 24 hours to add more coats of clear coat you need to lightly resand with "000" steel wool and wipe down with a good tack cloth (stewmac.com).
6. Once you are satisfied with the depth of your finish let it harden up for 3 or 4 days. Now you can polish with Microfinsh 12,000 grit (stewmac.com)
or buff out on a slow turning lathe with ClayMagic, or a combination of both. I use either the pad that comes with the kit a a cotton ball. Polish with AutoMagic or any other good finish. I have tried "Gloss Finish" from a cue supplier and it scratched the finish. Automotive finishes designed for use with clear coat are your best bet as they come in different grades of abrasiveness.
As an option: before buffing out the clear coat sand with "0000" (4 0's) and apply a few more coats of Super Glue then buff and polish. This is worth the extra step with soft woods. A lot of work but worth the effort. Try it on some small pieces first.

To make the sanding blocks take a piece of 1 1/2 round stock about 6" long and bore a hole through the center using a boring bar or whatever. Now rebore using your taper bars so you have a tapered hole. Cut the stock in half and you have 2 good sanding blocks.

Good Luck,

Bob Flynn
Denali Cues/Guitars
 
super glue finish

I've had good results with the super glue finish. I use 2 thin coats of 20 min. finishing epoxy under the CA glue and wet sand these down to 2000. I apply thin CA that I buy in 1 or 2 oz bottles at hobby shops. The really thin stuff works best with lots of coats. I wet sand the CA down to 2000 and use a 3M liquid rubbing compound that I bought at an automotive shop applied with terry towels. The shine comes out very quickly and easily. The hard part with the CA is getting it on smooth enough that you can start your wet sanding with 600 or higher grit so you don't have any scratches. The other problem I had early on was "swirl marks" under the finish because I didn't wet-sand as often as I should of. I apply the CA glue using a paper towel and the Cuesmith Deluxe on it's slowest speed. Every so often you get a CA coat that gets a little rough and crystal-like. If this happens DO NOT add additional coats on top of it! Wet sand before the next coat. I use 20 coats and wet-sand after each 5 with 5 minutes between coats. It works well but takes up a lot of time and ties up the lathe for quite a while. Considering that I don't want to spray in my basement and use really toxic/flammable suff the CA glue provides fantastic results with a little effort and very little cost.
 
Thanks!

I want to thank everyone for the responses. I have been out of town and just got a chance to read all of the replies. Chris, I was using the thin CA that I bought from a local hobby shop. I am unsure of the manufacture since it is marked with their own label. I then wet sanded to 2000 grit and polished with a 3M scratch and haze remover. No luck. I purchased some Micromesh and Trizac as Murray recommended and I had good results.

Thanks Again,
Brian
 
bkkpool said:
I want to thank everyone for the responses. I have been out of town and just got a chance to read all of the replies. Chris, I was using the thin CA that I bought from a local hobby shop. I am unsure of the manufacture since it is marked with their own label. I then wet sanded to 2000 grit and polished with a 3M scratch and haze remover. No luck. I purchased some Micromesh and Trizac as Murray recommended and I had good results.

Thanks Again,
Brian
Click to expand...




Can anyone tell me where to get Trizac you guys are refering to? Like to try it out if it's that good. The product I've used is a fine cut rubbing compound made by 3M.

Thanks Greg
 
bkkpool said:
I want to thank everyone for the responses. I have been out of town and just got a chance to read all of the replies. Chris, I was using the thin CA that I bought from a local hobby shop. I am unsure of the manufacture since it is marked with their own label. I then wet sanded to 2000 grit and polished with a 3M scratch and haze remover. No luck. I purchased some Micromesh and Trizac as Murray recommended and I had good results.

Thanks Again,
Brian
Click to expand...

Don't WET SAND, unless you have all of the nooks & crannies of the grain filled in. Otherwise the wet dust, from the sanding, will settle in the low spots in the form of white mud that will harden & show up as white spots...JER
 
bkkpool said:
I am relatively new to cue making and I have been experimenting with various finishes that can be applied without a spray booth. I have used various urethanes, acrylics, polyurethanes, lacquer and last night super glue. I applied an epoxy sealer to the cue and sand with 400 grit until it is absolutely smooth with no flaws. I then applied many coats (lost count) of super glue and then proceeded to wet sand up to 2000 grit. I then buffed and applied a wax but my final results are not as desired. I would classify the final finish as a semi-gloss and not a mirror like shine that I have seen others achieve with this method. I do not know if I am using an incorrect buffing compound, spinning the cue at the wrong RPM or whatever. Can someone share their methods, buffing compound and lathe rpm.

Thanks,
Brian
Click to expand...


I don't think there is a better finish on the market than the UV system used by many cuemakers. No mixing, easy touch up, but expensive.

If you want to try something new and not too expensive, water white conversion varnish by Sherwin Williams. I think it was originally designed for bowling alleys. Dries hard in about 30 minutes, can be sprayed on a misty day under a shade tree, is very high in solids, which means only three or four coats required, is its own sealer, sands easy, buffs out high gloss, will not amber and is very hard after fully cured. The only drawback is the shrinkage factor and the 5 to 1 mix. You need to let it set for several days before sanding and buffing or you will have to wet sand and buff again. Many top cuemakers have used it at one time or another. Not the best PICS but the cue below was done in 97 and still looks good today.
 

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super glue finish

Jack Justis said:
I don't think there is a better finish on the market than the UV system used by many cuemakers. No mixing, easy touch up, but expensive.

If you want to try something new and not too expensive, water white conversion varnish by Sherwin Williams. I think it was originally designed for bowling alleys. Dries hard in about 30 minutes, can be sprayed on a misty day under a shade tree, is very high in solids, which means only three or four coats required, is its own sealer, sands easy, buffs out high gloss, will not amber and is very hard after fully cured. The only drawback is the shrinkage factor and the 5 to 1 mix. You need to let it set for several days before sanding and buffing or you will have to wet sand and buff again. Many top cuemakers have used it at one time or another. Not the best PICS but the cue below was done in 97 and still looks good today.
Click to expand...

Hi Jack; I used the conversion varnish some years ago & had a problem with it chipping off of the plastic & metal parts. When I contacted Sherwin Williams & they told me it is to be used on WOOD ONLY...JER
 
bkkpool said:
I want to thank everyone for the responses. I have been out of town and just got a chance to read all of the replies. Chris, I was using the thin CA that I bought from a local hobby shop. I am unsure of the manufacture since it is marked with their own label. I then wet sanded to 2000 grit and polished with a 3M scratch and haze remover. No luck. I purchased some Micromesh and Trizac as Murray recommended and I had good results.

Thanks Again,
Brian
Click to expand...
I had a problem with some super glues made in Taiwan that would not buff correctly. The odorless was the worst. Try Satellite City brands: Hot Stuff and Super T. Use the Super T with accelerator if in a hurry. Get some 3m Finesse It instead of the other stuff and it might buff your brand. It sounds like you don't have the right buffing material.
Chris
www.cuesmith.com
www.internationalcuemakers.com
 
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BLACKHEARTCUES said:
Hi Jack; I used the conversion varnish some years ago & had a problem with it chipping off of the plastic & metal parts. When I contacted Sherwin Williams & they told me it is to be used on WOOD ONLY...JER
Click to expand...
I had the same experience. It is great for sneaky petes as it sticks to wood super great. But it is one of the worse finishes I ever used on plastics.
Chris
www.cuesmith.com
www.internationalcuemakers.com
 
cueman said:
I had a problem with some super glues made in Taiwan that would not buff correctly. The odorless was the worst. Try Satellite City brands: Hot Stuff and Super T. Use the Super T with accelerator if in a hurry. Get some 3m Finesse It instead of the other stuff and it might buff your brand. It sounds like you don't have the right buffing material.
Chris
www.cuesmith.com
www.internationalcuemakers.com
Click to expand...

When you guys are talking about "BUFFING" you don't mean with a buffing machine do you??????????
 
BLACKHEARTCUES said:
When you guys are talking about "BUFFING" you don't mean with a buffing machine do you??????????
Click to expand...
When I talk about buffing I am referring wet sanding the cue down to 2000 or finer on the lathe, then applying buffing material with a soft napkin while the cue is spinning to bring it back to a brilliant shine. I have used a buffing wheel on a grinder for some UV finish, but decided I did not want to use the UV system.
Chris
www.cuesmith.com
www.internationalcuemakers.com
 
Jack Justis said:
I don't think there is a better finish on the market than the UV system used by many cuemakers. No mixing, easy touch up, but expensive.

If you want to try something new and not too expensive, water white conversion varnish by Sherwin Williams. I think it was originally designed for bowling alleys. Dries hard in about 30 minutes, can be sprayed on a misty day under a shade tree, is very high in solids, which means only three or four coats required, is its own sealer, sands easy, buffs out high gloss, will not amber and is very hard after fully cured. The only drawback is the shrinkage factor and the 5 to 1 mix. You need to let it set for several days before sanding and buffing or you will have to wet sand and buff again. Many top cuemakers have used it at one time or another. Not the best PICS but the cue below was done in 97 and still looks good today.
Click to expand...

Hey Jack, I've got the U.V. system and have tried the chemicals from two different suppliers and have had nothing but a fit with it. It looks pretty good when sprayed but seems impossible to rub out. I've tried wet sanding down to 10,000 grit and using a number of different rubbing compounds to no avail. There are some polishes that make the cues look pretty good but it is not long lasting. After six months or so after the polishing and the polish starts wearing off you then have the worst finish you have ever seen on a cue. I would sure like to find some U.V. finish that can be rubbed out as it is very easy to use and is very tough plus I've got over 2,500.00 tied up in the system. I use it now for a filler and base coat but instead of trying to rub it out I spray 3 coats of Urethane auto finish on top as it rubs out so easily.
Dick
 
rhncue said:
Hey Jack, I've got the U.V. system and have tried the chemicals from two different suppliers and have had nothing but a fit with it. It looks pretty good when sprayed but seems impossible to rub out. I've tried wet sanding down to 10,000 grit and using a number of different rubbing compounds to no avail. There are some polishes that make the cues look pretty good but it is not long lasting. After six months or so after the polishing and the polish starts wearing off you then have the worst finish you have ever seen on a cue. I would sure like to find some U.V. finish that can be rubbed out as it is very easy to use and is very tough plus I've got over 2,500.00 tied up in the system. I use it now for a filler and base coat but instead of trying to rub it out I spray 3 coats of Urethane auto finish on top as it rubs out so easily.
Dick
Click to expand...


I took Dickies advise on this one and am very happy with the results. The UV works great as a sealer and builds up fine but as Dick mentioned I too, haven't been able to get a finish that buffs well and keeps its luster like the auto clear coat I'm using! The Derby City Classic cues I built this year had UV finish on the shafts only. I got them to buff up pretty well, with a lot of effort, but even after just a week of time I could see a difference in their luster. When I first started packing up all those cues, I noticed that the shaft collars weren't as shiny as the butts, where I'd used the auto clear coat. They had dulled considerably all ready! I decided to wet sand and re-spray all of the shafts over the weekend, so they would match properly. I too, would love to find a UV finish that buffs up and looked as good as the auto clearcoat! At times I thought I had it, but it was like chasing a ghost!



Just more hot air!


Sherm
 
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