Sheesh!!
There went my fifteen minutes of fame . . . . . . .
Hu
uwate said:
There went my fifteen minutes of fame . . . . . . .
Hu
Support The Ipt
- Thread starter smashmouth
- Start date
So the glass is always half full with you?
I hate to even voice my opinion of this rosy outlook on the IPT, but it is just too annoying to read. If I wanted to start an argument, your comments would be the best thing to say. I guess you can put roses on a pile of garbage and call it marketable, but most people would see it as a pile of garbage. This guy sees the roses.
If there is anybody that hurts the game as much as KT did, it would be a dead, beat sport. What sponsors are going to get behind a tournament format after the KT flop, even if it is a good idea? Diamond tables are associated with the IPT, I wonder what they feel like.
As far as the players getting screwed, welcome to the real world. I know there are a lot of players in this forum, and I hope everything goes well for them, but nobody owes pool players anything. If you want something, do what the golfers did, and start your own "PGA". Control your own collective destiny. Clean up the image, show that it takes brains and skill to play. If you are waiting for a boat to come along with money in it, get in line.
Get an association together, promote the tourneys, get rid of the gambling, and promote each other. I think Dragon Promotions is doing the right thing, and pool wouldn't be this far without Hopkins. If you want money and a legacy, you could do worse than a strong pool players association with good tournaments.
Just my 2 cents. Play on.
smashmouth said:
I hate to even voice my opinion of this rosy outlook on the IPT, but it is just too annoying to read. If I wanted to start an argument, your comments would be the best thing to say. I guess you can put roses on a pile of garbage and call it marketable, but most people would see it as a pile of garbage. This guy sees the roses.
If there is anybody that hurts the game as much as KT did, it would be a dead, beat sport. What sponsors are going to get behind a tournament format after the KT flop, even if it is a good idea? Diamond tables are associated with the IPT, I wonder what they feel like.
As far as the players getting screwed, welcome to the real world. I know there are a lot of players in this forum, and I hope everything goes well for them, but nobody owes pool players anything. If you want something, do what the golfers did, and start your own "PGA". Control your own collective destiny. Clean up the image, show that it takes brains and skill to play. If you are waiting for a boat to come along with money in it, get in line.
Get an association together, promote the tourneys, get rid of the gambling, and promote each other. I think Dragon Promotions is doing the right thing, and pool wouldn't be this far without Hopkins. If you want money and a legacy, you could do worse than a strong pool players association with good tournaments.
Just my 2 cents. Play on.
What the pool industry needs is more people to watch it, period. In that regard the IPT didn't really hurt the industry or the game at all. I am a store manager for a large pool table dealer on the east coast. I work with John Q Poolfan on a daily basis. If I mention KT or the IPT to 25 of my customers 1 or 2 of them might not look at me cross-eyed with confusion.
KT thought the money would make his game of pool more marketable than anything before it. Obviously he was wrong. I'm not going to get into what I think of KT or what I think his motives were. I'll just say this, I'm NOT a KT fan.
I think what would bring more TV spectators to the game is a better format. My customers recognize Mike Massey more than Efren Reyes. Ultimately to build up the sport that we all love, we need to find a format that will increase the popularity of it to the masses.
I've seen so many posts about how the IPT has ruined the game, or set pool back 20 years and all that other bs talk out there. Here's my very blunt suggestion to EVERYONE: Quit *****ing and crying about KT and the IPT! Figure out how to do something positive for pool!
Corporate sponsors aren't going to look at a product that is in demand and say "well guys it looks like you've got a good thing going here but we don't want to affiliate ourselves with it because of that thing called the IPT that happened a few years back." Create a pool format that is exciting to watch that people want to see and big sponsorships and big money will follow. I think there is enough people involved with the game already that something can be done to make things better. We all just need to stop the *****ing and get off our asses and do something.
Forget the IPT! Like so many people on this thread and others have said, its gone. Now find something to try to create more interest in our game!
I don't know if anyone agrees with me but I feel like I made a good point.
Dave
KT thought the money would make his game of pool more marketable than anything before it. Obviously he was wrong. I'm not going to get into what I think of KT or what I think his motives were. I'll just say this, I'm NOT a KT fan.
I think what would bring more TV spectators to the game is a better format. My customers recognize Mike Massey more than Efren Reyes. Ultimately to build up the sport that we all love, we need to find a format that will increase the popularity of it to the masses.
I've seen so many posts about how the IPT has ruined the game, or set pool back 20 years and all that other bs talk out there. Here's my very blunt suggestion to EVERYONE: Quit *****ing and crying about KT and the IPT! Figure out how to do something positive for pool!
Corporate sponsors aren't going to look at a product that is in demand and say "well guys it looks like you've got a good thing going here but we don't want to affiliate ourselves with it because of that thing called the IPT that happened a few years back." Create a pool format that is exciting to watch that people want to see and big sponsorships and big money will follow. I think there is enough people involved with the game already that something can be done to make things better. We all just need to stop the *****ing and get off our asses and do something.
Forget the IPT! Like so many people on this thread and others have said, its gone. Now find something to try to create more interest in our game!
I don't know if anyone agrees with me but I feel like I made a good point.
Dave
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You did make a good point but I don't fully agree
Dave,
Sponsorship isn't a gift to make people happy, it is advertising dollars. The real question is how much bang will the sponsor get for their buck. People who have major dollars to spend do take a hard look where they are spending it. Let's take Tide laundry detergent as an example of an outside sponsor that isn't industry related with millions to spend. The spend millions on racing and in return get large highly visible billboards racing around a track in front of many millions of viewers a week. We can't match that so now we are looking at their little bucks. We are competing against everything. Darts, skate boarding, dominoes, bridge, the list is endless. What do we offer that they don't? What negatives do we carry that they don't? Smart executives look at both sides, they don't just plunk down dollars by the bucketful. A little research reveals that a lot of business people just lost money on the IPT. A little more digging and other fiascoes come to light. We need some big positives to offset that and I really don't see why people outside the industry should be sponsoring pool instead of something else. Pool is an old stable sport with moderate growth at best, better from an advertising standpoint to jump on a new fad and try to ride it while it lasts.
A late night thought that probably won't fly in the light of day but I have noticed that team martial arts seems to be a new boom. I wonder if two teams of four to six people with male and female members playing some very short fast paced matches(not some type of speed pool) would catch the public's interest? I also think that the skins games and such should at least have piles of chips changing hands. The visuals would be much better for a general audience.
I agree that when all is said and done we will almost certainly have to grow pool from the inside and that has proven a tough row to hoe for anyone.
Hu
DiamondDave said:
Dave,
Sponsorship isn't a gift to make people happy, it is advertising dollars. The real question is how much bang will the sponsor get for their buck. People who have major dollars to spend do take a hard look where they are spending it. Let's take Tide laundry detergent as an example of an outside sponsor that isn't industry related with millions to spend. The spend millions on racing and in return get large highly visible billboards racing around a track in front of many millions of viewers a week. We can't match that so now we are looking at their little bucks. We are competing against everything. Darts, skate boarding, dominoes, bridge, the list is endless. What do we offer that they don't? What negatives do we carry that they don't? Smart executives look at both sides, they don't just plunk down dollars by the bucketful. A little research reveals that a lot of business people just lost money on the IPT. A little more digging and other fiascoes come to light. We need some big positives to offset that and I really don't see why people outside the industry should be sponsoring pool instead of something else. Pool is an old stable sport with moderate growth at best, better from an advertising standpoint to jump on a new fad and try to ride it while it lasts.
A late night thought that probably won't fly in the light of day but I have noticed that team martial arts seems to be a new boom. I wonder if two teams of four to six people with male and female members playing some very short fast paced matches(not some type of speed pool) would catch the public's interest? I also think that the skins games and such should at least have piles of chips changing hands. The visuals would be much better for a general audience.
I agree that when all is said and done we will almost certainly have to grow pool from the inside and that has proven a tough row to hoe for anyone.
Hu
Smorgass Bored said:TX Poolnut said:This post was so full of bad grammer.....QUOTE]
When criticizing someone's bad 'grammer', it's important to actually spell grammar correctly.... imo
Dug
DOUG it is very important when correcting someone's spelling that you spell your name right. Your name is D O U G not DUG!
Still amazing that people think the IPT was the worse event in the history of pocket billiards...
5 million to players? If thats true, how can you not recognize that KT championed the transfer of funds into pool players pockets?
What about industry realated products like Diamond? Did they get a boost in sales (not including any tables the IPT may have purchased) and ALOT more name recognition? How many dollars were spread to industry?
Is KT a bad man? Sure he is... Can pool use a man like him coming along every couple years? You bet!
No matter how you look at it, millions were paid that NOBODY else was even thinking about doing. That, in itslef, is a major accomplishment for our sport that all the KT haters, convienently, ignore. For some reason, they think KT was now responsible for the future of the game and obligated to fund all the starving pool players for the rest of their lives... Why? Because he hyped up his product?
He lied so now he is the ultimate bad guy who ruined pool? Get real... 5 million... enough said if you ask me...
KT has nothing to do with the future demise of pool. All you fools are just to passionate or vested to admit that. Pool is in its sorry state because - IT IS BORING TO WATCH - for the average person. IPT had nothing to do with that... Come on already... KT is not responsible for paying your rent anymore than the guy living down the street...
Are you guys/gals really so ignorant that you think he is held liable for your future and the future of pool cause he made big promisses he could not keep? /sheesh You all must be the same idiots that fall for "get rich quick" and "wealth bulding" schemes...
Why not see this for what it is? Why not be real and objective? WTF is wrong with that?
KT showed up, right? He paid millions, right? His business went under... He did more for pool than anything my 20 years of playing has ever seen. KT is scum, no doubt, but the IPT was not. The IPT was the best thing to happen to pool...
I feel foolish ranting about the obvious but I am aware that you can not reason with irrational people...
As far as supporting any future IPT events? Never! Unless he pays up. So far he is paying FAR MORE than any of us thought, right? You all said thats it, no more money... You were wrong and he is still paying. How many of you even acknowledged that? 1 out of 100????
Lets hope the players get payed and somebody (I don't care who) starts throwing wasted money at our game again. I'm sure we can all agree with that...
Pool will never be a high paying profession for all qualified players... Never... Deal with it and accept our game for what it is...
/rant over
5 million to players? If thats true, how can you not recognize that KT championed the transfer of funds into pool players pockets?
What about industry realated products like Diamond? Did they get a boost in sales (not including any tables the IPT may have purchased) and ALOT more name recognition? How many dollars were spread to industry?
Is KT a bad man? Sure he is... Can pool use a man like him coming along every couple years? You bet!
No matter how you look at it, millions were paid that NOBODY else was even thinking about doing. That, in itslef, is a major accomplishment for our sport that all the KT haters, convienently, ignore. For some reason, they think KT was now responsible for the future of the game and obligated to fund all the starving pool players for the rest of their lives... Why? Because he hyped up his product?
He lied so now he is the ultimate bad guy who ruined pool? Get real... 5 million... enough said if you ask me...
KT has nothing to do with the future demise of pool. All you fools are just to passionate or vested to admit that. Pool is in its sorry state because - IT IS BORING TO WATCH - for the average person. IPT had nothing to do with that... Come on already... KT is not responsible for paying your rent anymore than the guy living down the street...
Are you guys/gals really so ignorant that you think he is held liable for your future and the future of pool cause he made big promisses he could not keep? /sheesh You all must be the same idiots that fall for "get rich quick" and "wealth bulding" schemes...
Why not see this for what it is? Why not be real and objective? WTF is wrong with that?
KT showed up, right? He paid millions, right? His business went under... He did more for pool than anything my 20 years of playing has ever seen. KT is scum, no doubt, but the IPT was not. The IPT was the best thing to happen to pool...
I feel foolish ranting about the obvious but I am aware that you can not reason with irrational people...
As far as supporting any future IPT events? Never! Unless he pays up. So far he is paying FAR MORE than any of us thought, right? You all said thats it, no more money... You were wrong and he is still paying. How many of you even acknowledged that? 1 out of 100????
Lets hope the players get payed and somebody (I don't care who) starts throwing wasted money at our game again. I'm sure we can all agree with that...
Pool will never be a high paying profession for all qualified players... Never... Deal with it and accept our game for what it is...
/rant over
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John Barton
New member
ndakotan said:
That would assume that any serious sponsors are even aware of the IPT. IN truth if the right formula were worked out which hit the right company at the right time then more millions would be spent on pool as an advertising vehicle.
I don't think the IPT made much of a splash and whatever it did make the ripples are long since gone.
I was at the Sigel-Jones challenge match and hardly anyone at the casino could tell me where it was being held at - no one even heard of it. When I finally got to it i the catacombs of the convention center I was impressed with the decoration and the show and thought it was going to be great for pool.
And it may well have been except for Kevin Trudeau and the fact that his ambition far exceeds his ability. But you can't ever take away that he did gamble on the IPT and "somebody's" millions got paid out. Sounds like many vendors and of course the qualifiers took severe losses but some people did mighty well off the millions that did flow.
The IPT was a new era. It was in a lot of ways the highest high that pool ever got. And when you get real high then the crash is that much harder.
Jimmy M. said:I'm guessing it was intentional ...
Gymmy
(I actually did have a girl at Starbucks spell my name like that on my cup. She asked, "what's your name?" I responded with, "Jim". When I got my drink, the cup read, "Gym".)
unless he is the character from the game digdug, then it might be his nickname, which would be just fine!
Gairey
wow this thread beggers belief!
It just amazes me how money still blinds people, even when they have been burnt beyond belief.
I think any IPT blind beleivers should take careful note of spiderwebs words, they got in bed with the IPT and have first hand knowledge of what was really going on. Unfortunately most the players only have KTs BS to go by.
I feel for Spider because his company did a pretty excellent job, I think we all agree the website and video side of things was one of the huge IPT plus points. It's just sad that they bought the IPT gospel and got stung.
Ref's not paid, Diamond stung, casinos not paid, if anyone really believes KT put millions of his own money into the IPT then please call me on 1-800-Imaf*ckingidiot because I have some money trees for sale (well I say for sale they're actually free + 59.99 p&p)
Not 1 cent came out of KTs pocket, I'd bet my life on it. At best any surplus came from natural cures advertising budget which he's probably recouped by way of his new weight loss - what the skinny b*stards don't want you to know books! (British scientist secret formula of course!
)
You know I wouldn't be suprised if KT came back for more, he must be pissing his pants when he read threads like this. "Shit I stiffed half the industry and they still think I'm the messiah!"
Unbelievable!
It just amazes me how money still blinds people, even when they have been burnt beyond belief.
I think any IPT blind beleivers should take careful note of spiderwebs words, they got in bed with the IPT and have first hand knowledge of what was really going on. Unfortunately most the players only have KTs BS to go by.
I feel for Spider because his company did a pretty excellent job, I think we all agree the website and video side of things was one of the huge IPT plus points. It's just sad that they bought the IPT gospel and got stung.
Ref's not paid, Diamond stung, casinos not paid, if anyone really believes KT put millions of his own money into the IPT then please call me on 1-800-Imaf*ckingidiot because I have some money trees for sale (well I say for sale they're actually free + 59.99 p&p)
Not 1 cent came out of KTs pocket, I'd bet my life on it. At best any surplus came from natural cures advertising budget which he's probably recouped by way of his new weight loss - what the skinny b*stards don't want you to know books! (British scientist secret formula of course!
)You know I wouldn't be suprised if KT came back for more, he must be pissing his pants when he read threads like this. "Shit I stiffed half the industry and they still think I'm the messiah!"
Unbelievable!
I for one am with ....
The One!!!!TheOne said:wow this thread beggers belief!
It just amazes me how money still blinds people, even when they have been burnt beyond belief.
I think any IPT blind beleivers should take careful note of spiderwebs words, they got in bed with the IPT and have first hand knowledge of what was really going on. Unfortunately most the players only have KTs BS to go by.
I feel for Spider because his company did a pretty excellent job, I think we all agree the website and video side of things was one of the huge IPT plus points. It's just sad that they bought the IPT gospel and got stung.
Ref's not paid, Diamond stung, casinos not paid, if anyone really believes KT put millions of his own money into the IPT then please call me on 1-800-Imaf*ckingidiot because I have some money trees for sale (well I say for sale they're actually free + 59.99 p&p)
Not 1 cent came out of KTs pocket, I'd bet my life on it. At best any surplus came from natural cures advertising budget which he's probably recouped by way of his new weight loss - what the skinny b*stards don't want you to know books! (British scientist secret formula of course!
You know I wouldn't be suprised if KT came back for more, he must be pissing his pants when he read threads like this. "Shit I stiffed half the industry and they still think I'm the messiah!"
Unbelievable!
I'm Too Hip for This Room
No, just throwing a 'mad fit'. You might say he's 'Chewning'.....
Doug
( I'll be here all week )
pdcue said:
No, just throwing a 'mad fit'. You might say he's 'Chewning'.....
Doug
( I'll be here all week )
TheOne said:It just amazes me how money still blinds people, even when they have been burnt beyond belief.
I think any IPT blind beleivers should take careful note of spiderwebs words, they got in bed with the IPT and have first hand knowledge of what was really going on. Unfortunately most the players only have KTs BS to go by.
I feel for Spider because his company did a pretty excellent job, I think we all agree the website and video side of things was one of the huge IPT plus points. It's just sad that they bought the IPT gospel and got stung.
Ref's not paid, Diamond stung, casinos not paid, if anyone really believes KT put millions of his own money into the IPT then please call me on 1-800-Imaf*ckingidiot because I have some money trees for sale (well I say for sale they're actually free + 59.99 p&p)
Not 1 cent came out of KTs pocket, I'd bet my life on it. At best any surplus came from natural cures advertising budget which he's probably recouped by way of his new weight loss - what the skinny b*stards don't want you to know books! (British scientist secret formula of course!
You know I wouldn't be suprised if KT came back for more, he must be pissing his pants when he read threads like this. "Shit I stiffed half the industry and they still think I'm the messiah!"
Unbelievable!
How could you ignore the money payed to player? Cause KT was at the wheel you are going to look a gift horse in the mouth? How many times have you smiled when the rich drug dealer strolled in to play you some? Did you give his money back cause he is a plauge on society or did you buy girl a "get me some" dinner?
My points were made on the people screaming scam. If this was a scam and KT came out ahead, then that is great news for pool. Cause it means that there, well over, 5 million dollars available to players which could be residual income for tours to tap into...
How many scam artists let 5 million slip through their fingers? His profit must have been HUGE to let that go...
It should be a safe bet that he lost BIG on this... But people still say he scammed lol If his intent was to scam, then we should be laughing at him cause it backfired and lost millions.
And I don't care who's money it was. It was in his conrol and he could have kept it... Advertising dollars could very well be, and is, money the owner of the company reinvested. How can you say it was not really his????
Spiderweb just made a bad business decision. It happens to all entrepreneurs at one time or another... Its just a reality of capitolism... I bought the service til KT quit paying the players...
I am unaware of people he owes money to outside the players. I hope they all get paid but people always get stiffed when a business goes under... Most business owners eat the loss and move on. Rarely do you hear them cry about it... If a business's sole survival depends on one customer then it was a failing business from the jump...
Afterall, its just this small group of railbirds who even care about the IPT with exception to the players/people owed money to... I know your not a railbird, Craig. Word has it you can hit em
I think people should see this whole thing as a gift to the players. They made millions. If this happened again exactly the same way, I'd say thats better than it not happening at all. Reality is, this is money brought to players as a gift and if you expected it to last forever to make it worth appreciating the money, then you (whoever falls into this category) is a fool...
The only thing about these threads is....
how many folks are so cavalier when it comes to someone elses money! If they were the ones that were promised prize money ! in some cases gave up jobs to compete ! spent money on entrance fees, air-flights and hotels and then were not paid when promised at all !
only then months later given small percentages of what they were contracted / promised and honestly won ! I really wonder if they would have so much compassion and forgiveness of the one that lied and whelched on them ?
I think not ! and since not one of those players that was screwed (and a few post here) has been online ranting here about how good the IPT was and how they would love to be reamed by them again I have to say it would be disingenuous to listen to the ones dreaming and defending the IPT!
how many folks are so cavalier when it comes to someone elses money!
If they were the ones that were promised prize money ! in some cases gave up jobs to compete ! spent money on entrance fees, air-flights and hotels and then were not paid when promised at all ! only then months later given small percentages of what they were contracted / promised and honestly won ! I really wonder if they would have so much compassion and forgiveness of the one that lied and whelched on them ?
I think not ! and since not one of those players that was screwed (and a few post here) has been online ranting here about how good the IPT was and how they would love to be reamed by them again I have to say it would be disingenuous to listen to the ones dreaming and defending the IPT!