T ball approach to aiming

D

duckie

GregH
Silver Member
When I was learning baseball way back when, someone would throw a ball I'd swing at it and may or may not hit it. I had no muscle nor visual memory to draw from on what it's like to hit a baseball.

Now days, the ball is placed on post, ie not moving and the kids swings at it. This builds good muscle and visual feedback on what is like to hit a ball. Next, the ball is thrown, but there is a database from hitting a non moving ball, so now, the only new part is the ball moving.

in other words, young players use a training device in order to improve their game.

A DVD is not a training device, lessons are not a training device. So is there a training device you can use that will give you a real world point to put the CB? Yes, there are several.

My choice is Babe Cranfields Arrow. The point of the arrow is where the ghost ball contact patch needs to be to make the OB go where you want. The contact patch is the area of of the ball that contacts the table. It's a term used in racing in regards to tires.

The contact point and contact patch are on the same line to where the OB is going. If you can "see" a contact point on a ball, there is no reason you can not "see" the contact patch. It's all visualization because there are no aiming points used like in aiming a rifle that has iron sights. If you think there is, you better look closely at the balls and when you find one that has a contact point on it, take a pic to shows everyone.

If you can "see" overlapping disc, you can "see" the ghost ball contact patch.

If you can "see" lines going between balls, you "see" the ghost ball contact patch.

I share all this and all for free, so I can say 100% that my motivation to do so is to help players and nothing more.

So, when the system fails you, and it will as evidence by some that did not have a positive experience with xxxx system, trying training with the arrow.
 
It's a match!

I like the drawing Duckie did. It is very clear and professionally done imo.

To answer his question about a device that one can use, I have been pondering this consciously and unconsciously for an unknown time. Prolly like 25 years or so. Til the other day when my butt left the chair and gathered some things. I started in the wrong direction but that is better than no direction and I ended up with ... The Matchstick Measuring Device! Soon to be patented. haha

You can make it yourself. Get a box of small kitchen matches and a tape measure. On a piece of paper measure 2 marks, 1-1/8" apart. Lay the paper on a piece of cardboard or something that will protect your table and put the match along side. Using a matt knife or something sharp, cut the match to the 1-1/8" length.

For a mounting plate, I used a thin piece of cardboard as shown in the pics and put a small hole in it so the end of the match will lay flush to the object ball. I curved it a little to help it lay flatter. Some watered down Elmers glue and stuck it in there. Set it aside and played a few racks. I didn't have a rubber band which would be better so I used one of the girls old hair thingy's to hold it to the object ball. There is little need for explanation on how to use this.

The idea is; Cue ball is 2-1/4" in diameter so the radius is 1-1/8". If you can position the matchhead in line with the center of the object ball aiming to your target, anywhere you look at it will help you aim the center of the cueball to direct it to your target. Works like a champ. I'll try and post pics and see what people think.
 

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duckie said:
When I was learning baseball way back when, someone would throw a ball I'd swing at it and may or may not hit it. I had no muscle nor visual memory to draw from on what it's like to hit a baseball.

Now days, the ball is placed on post, ie not moving and the kids swings at it. This builds good muscle and visual feedback on what is like to hit a ball. Next, the ball is thrown, but there is a database from hitting a non moving ball, so now, the only new part is the ball moving.

in other words, young players use a training device in order to improve their game.

A DVD is not a training device, lessons are not a training device. So is there a training device you can use that will give you a real world point to put the CB? Yes, there are several.

My choice is Babe Cranfields Arrow. The point of the arrow is where the ghost ball contact patch needs to be to make the OB go where you want. The contact patch is the area of of the ball that contacts the table. It's a term used in racing in regards to tires.

The contact point and contact patch are on the same line to where the OB is going. If you can "see" a contact point on a ball, there is no reason you can not "see" the contact patch. It's all visualization because there are no aiming points used like in aiming a rifle that has iron sights. If you think there is, you better look closely at the balls and when you find one that has a contact point on it, take a pic to shows everyone.

If you can "see" overlapping disc, you can "see" the ghost ball contact patch.

If you can "see" lines going between balls, you "see" the ghost ball contact patch.

I share all this and all for free, so I can say 100% that my motivation to do so is to help players and nothing more.

So, when the system fails you, and it will as evidence by some that did not have a positive experience with xxxx system, trying training with the arrow.
Click to expand...

WHY must you add in "when the system fails you"?

Where have you seen ANY evidence that anyone on this forum who has become proficient with a alternative aiming system has reported that it failed them?

Your timing is excellent because we have just had a great round of new videos from normal folks showing off their new skills due to CTE/ProOne Aiming. Look for the list in the Videos thread.

Meanwhile I have some questions about the Arrow? See my video on the topic here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePqvWvD7V0U

1. What if you place it wrong?
2. Is it tedious to practice with this device?
3. Can you accurately place it when the object ball is far away from the pocket?
4. Do you place it offset to account for Contact Induced Throw?
5. Do you offset it to account for spin? By how much?
6. Do you have different body positions for each type of spin when using the Arrow?
7. Can you make every shot on the table using the Arrow? So if you played the ghost like Gerry Williams does can you use the arrow and make all your shots? Would you make a video of you doing that please?
8. Can you make bank shots using the Arrow? Can we see a video of that please?
9. Same for kick shots, can we see you using the Arrow for those?
10. Caroms also please.
11. Do you have a tangent line version of the Arrow?
12. Have you ever felt lost on a shot because you haven't gotten around to practicing it with the Arrow yet?

That's all, looking for to your answers and videos, I will be glad to add them to the video list if you choose to show us all how to properly use the Arrow.

Overall though I like the comparison of Ghost Ball aiming using devices to T-Ball.

It's exactly the same level of beginner training that a complete newbie needs to develop the basic motor skills needed. T-Ball is used for 4-5 year olds - then they outgrow that pretty quickly and advance to the real thing where there is no T to help them. I can't recall ever seeing any little league players or high school players, college or professional players using a T to practice with. Any that did start with it were done by the time they were six.
 
This is funny....it is a joke, isn't it?

arastos said:
I like the drawing Duckie did. It is very clear and professionally done imo.

To answer his question about a device that one can use, I have been pondering this consciously and unconsciously for an unknown time. Prolly like 25 years or so. Til the other day when my butt left the chair and gathered some things. I started in the wrong direction but that is better than no direction and I ended up with ... The Matchstick Measuring Device! Soon to be patented. haha

You can make it yourself. Get a box of small kitchen matches and a tape measure. On a piece of paper measure 2 marks, 1-1/8" apart. Lay the paper on a piece of cardboard or something that will protect your table and put the match along side. Using a matt knife or something sharp, cut the match to the 1-1/8" length.

For a mounting plate, I used a thin piece of cardboard as shown in the pics and put a small hole in it so the end of the match will lay flush to the object ball. I curved it a little to help it lay flatter. Some watered down Elmers glue and stuck it in there. Set it aside and played a few racks. I didn't have a rubber band which would be better so I used one of the girls old hair thingy's to hold it to the object ball. There is little need for explanation on how to use this.

The idea is; Cue ball is 2-1/4" in diameter so the radius is 1-1/8". If you can position the matchhead in line with the center of the object ball aiming to your target, anywhere you look at it will help you aim the center of the cueball to direct it to your target. Works like a champ. I'll try and post pics and see what people think.
Click to expand...

This is funny....it is a joke, isn't it?
 
duckie said:
When I was learning baseball way back when, someone would throw a ball I'd swing at it and may or may not hit it. I had no muscle nor visual memory to draw from on what it's like to hit a baseball.

Now days, the ball is placed on post, ie not moving and the kids swings at it. This builds good muscle and visual feedback on what is like to hit a ball. Next, the ball is thrown, but there is a database from hitting a non moving ball, so now, the only new part is the ball moving.

in other words, young players use a training device in order to improve their game.

A DVD is not a training device, lessons are not a training device. So is there a training device you can use that will give you a real world point to put the CB? Yes, there are several.

My choice is Babe Cranfields Arrow. The point of the arrow is where the ghost ball contact patch needs to be to make the OB go where you want. The contact patch is the area of of the ball that contacts the table. It's a term used in racing in regards to tires.

The contact point and contact patch are on the same line to where the OB is going. If you can "see" a contact point on a ball, there is no reason you can not "see" the contact patch. It's all visualization because there are no aiming points used like in aiming a rifle that has iron sights. If you think there is, you better look closely at the balls and when you find one that has a contact point on it, take a pic to shows everyone.

If you can "see" overlapping disc, you can "see" the ghost ball contact patch.

If you can "see" lines going between balls, you "see" the ghost ball contact patch.

I share all this and all for free, so I can say 100% that my motivation to do so is to help players and nothing more.

So, when the system fails you, and it will as evidence by some that did not have a positive experience with xxxx system, trying training with the arrow.
Click to expand...


For crying out loud Dukie you dont shoot for the duck,I mean ghost.
If you just wanna pocket balls and let the cb loose I guess maybe you can,but your always going to run into problems with your thinking.
Your going to be consistent at running 3 maybe 4 or 5 but whats going to be more consistent are the type of shots that kill your run.You know what im talking about.Worse place you can be aiming is at the ghost.

Good luck to you though.:wink:

Just messing with you.
 
arastos said:
I like the drawing Duckie did. It is very clear and professionally done imo.

To answer his question about a device that one can use, I have been pondering this consciously and unconsciously for an unknown time. Prolly like 25 years or so. Til the other day when my butt left the chair and gathered some things. I started in the wrong direction but that is better than no direction and I ended up with ... The Matchstick Measuring Device! Soon to be patented. haha

You can make it yourself. Get a box of small kitchen matches and a tape measure. On a piece of paper measure 2 marks, 1-1/8" apart. Lay the paper on a piece of cardboard or something that will protect your table and put the match along side. Using a matt knife or something sharp, cut the match to the 1-1/8" length.

For a mounting plate, I used a thin piece of cardboard as shown in the pics and put a small hole in it so the end of the match will lay flush to the object ball. I curved it a little to help it lay flatter. Some watered down Elmers glue and stuck it in there. Set it aside and played a few racks. I didn't have a rubber band which would be better so I used one of the girls old hair thingy's to hold it to the object ball. There is little need for explanation on how to use this.

The idea is; Cue ball is 2-1/4" in diameter so the radius is 1-1/8". If you can position the matchhead in line with the center of the object ball aiming to your target, anywhere you look at it will help you aim the center of the cueball to direct it to your target. Works like a champ. I'll try and post pics and see what people think.
Click to expand...

How do you shoot it?

I prefer practicing methods which don't require any other equipment than I would use in a real game.

Or least using something I don't have to manipulate all the time. That's why I use tailor's chalk to mark lines. Set it up once and when done brush it out.
 
I think it's useless Duckie.
The aiming line is twice the distance from center to contact point.
Unless of course you have english/swerve/masse. The you might have to imagine the object way away from where it lays.
Watch Jayson Shaw shoot.
The dude sees the line and fires. Even Max Eberle noted the dude sees the imaginary vertical line , gets down on it and fires.

Or we can ask SVB how the fkk does he line the different parts of the shaft's side . Then he says different shafts, he aims differently. :D
 
JB Cases said:
How do you shoot it?

I prefer practicing methods which don't require any other equipment than I would use in a real game.

Or least using something I don't have to manipulate all the time. That's why I use tailor's chalk to mark lines. Set it up once and when done brush it out.
Click to expand...

If you have a method that works for you, then you are all set.

This is for those that need a concrete answer to a simple question. On any given shot, where do I aim the cue ball center to make the object ball?

With the head of the match at or near the equator of the object ball, you aim at the red match head.

You can see this tool is at a rudimentary level and could easily be refined in many ways. I also have one that can be used during a practice shot but needs to be reset each time.

The one shown here is a visualization tool that shows exactly where to aim on any shot. It is very helpful to even just know that your cue ball center is 1-1/8" on an extended centerline from the target through the object ball center. But to have it sitting there in space looking back at you is unique.
 
Last edited:
This thread is a laugh. Duckie, you have it backwards. The whole purpose behind a system is so that you have a backup in case your perceptive method of aiming fails you; not vice-versa. There are days when, for some reason, we just don't perceive things as accurately as other days -- days when we're "just off" for some odd reason. That's where having a system in your back pocket is a great thing to have -- something you can fall back on, to "right the ship" and get your perceptive abilities back on track.

And oddly enough, you seem very fond of speaking about "running balls" in a rhythm -- you speak respectfully about the ball-pocketing consistency aspects of 14.1 -- yet not once have you ever posted over in the 14.1 forum, nor do we ever see you spend any time there. But you spend an awful lot of time over here, in the Aiming Conversation forum, trying to "sell" Babe Cranfield's arrow!

:scratchhead:

-Sean <-- uses native perceptive aiming methods, but finds it nice to have a system in the back pocket for those "off" days
 
sfleinen said:
[...]
yet not once have you ever posted over in the 14.1 forum, nor do we ever see you spend any time there. But you spend an awful lot of time over here, in the Aiming Conversation forum, trying to "sell" Babe Cranfield's arrow!
[...]
Click to expand...

Ok, I take back the "not once have you ever posted there" part -- I see from a search that you have a total of 9 posts in the 14.1 forum, the last one dating back to 2011. My bad.

But you do spend an awful lot of time here in the Aiming Conversation forum, trying to sell that arrow, and extolling the virtues of 14.1's ball-pocketing consistency!

Odd. :scratchhead:

-Sean
 
arastos said:
If you have a method that works for you, then you are all set.

This is for those that need a concrete answer to a simple question. On any given shot, where do I aim the cue ball center to make the object ball?

With the head of the match at or near the equator of the object ball, you aim at the red match head.

You can see this tool is at a rudimentary level and could easily be refined in many ways. I also have one that can be used during a practice shot but needs to be reset each time.

The one shown here is a visualization tool that shows exactly where to aim on any shot. It is very helpful to even just know that your cue ball center is 1-1/8" on an extended centerline from the target through the object ball center. But to have it sitting there in space looking back at you is unique.
Click to expand...

Well no, there have been others who have set up similar Ghost Ball training devices that show you the core center of the GB.

The point I am making though is that such devices are not as helpful as they seem because they hinder the natural inclination to get on a shot and shoot it. No one wants to spend time moving GB devices around and looking at points in space to get a better feel for where the shots should be.

It's funny that all these years aiming systems like CTE are denigrated when in fact we should be talking about how GB aim trainers are not really that helpful. And the ones that get in the way of actually shooting are the worst of them. At least with the Arrow if you line it up right then you have away to see GB center and take the shot.

GB aim trainers are to me the Slice-Em/Dice Em devices that promise to chop up all your food as neatly as a chef does it and in fact they rarely actually work that way. Instead if you simply learn the proper technique of how to handle a knife and keep it sharp then you can chop anything neatly and perfectly in less time than it takes using the machine.

Now that said if you really want to make something like this with a point floating in space you can make out of paper or plastic that can be shot though. I am sure that you could figure out a way to make something extend off the ball which could struck and not be damaged. I can think of several ways to do it. All of which look goofy but would get the job done. None of which would be truly helpful except as reference points to double check better aiming methods IMO.
 
JB Cases said:
Well no, there have been others who have set up similar Ghost Ball training devices that show you the core center of the GB.

The point I am making though is that such devices are not as helpful as they seem because they hinder the natural inclination to get on a shot and shoot it. No one wants to spend time moving GB devices around and looking at points in space to get a better feel for where the shots should be.

How so? How does using these devices hinder getting into the position to shoot? Back up your statement.

So you have asked to the entire pool playing world about not wanting to move the training device around? This is a weak attempt to give creditability to your opinion. You may not want to be bothered to move a training device, but do not put your lack of motivation to learn on others.

It's funny that all these years aiming systems like CTE are denigrated when in fact we should be talking about how GB aim trainers are not really that helpful. And the ones that get in the way of actually shooting are the worst of them. At least with the Arrow if you line it up right then you have away to see GB center and take the shot.

You just showed your ignorance about the arrow. The Arrow shows where the CB contact patch needs to be in order to make the OB go where you want. Now the contact patch and center of the CB are on the same vertical line, but it is the thinking in terms of contact patch and not CB center that the arrow gets you into seeing.

GB aim trainers are to me the Slice-Em/Dice Em devices that promise to chop up all your food as neatly as a chef does it and in fact they rarely actually work that way. Instead if you simply learn the proper technique of how to handle a knife and keep it sharp then you can chop anything neatly and perfectly in less time than it takes using the machine.

This is really the best description of CTE I've ever heard.

Now that said if you really want to make something like this with a point floating in space you can make out of paper or plastic that can be shot though. I am sure that you could figure out a way to make something extend off the ball which could struck and not be damaged. I can think of several ways to do it. All of which look goofy but would get the job done. None of which would be truly helpful except as reference points to double check better aiming methods IMO.
Click to expand...


Its this type of continue thinking that keeps be away from here. Unreal. No one has learned anything.

I mean look at the recent thread about a person trying to use CTE. Yep real easy system to learn. But yet, they are willing to stick it out but are not willing to try something as simple as the arrow.

The standard answer has been "Well, it takes time to learn." Well, no shit and this is the same with any system. It takes time.

The real question is are you wasting time using your current method instead of spending time finding out what works for you? There is a difference.
 
duckie said:
Its this type of continue thinking that keeps be away from here. Unreal. No one has learned anything.

I mean look at the recent thread about a person trying to use CTE. Yep real easy system to learn. But yet, they are willing to stick it out but are not willing to try something as simple as the arrow.

The standard answer has been "Well, it takes time to learn." Well, no shit and this is the same with any system. It takes time.

The real question is are you wasting time using your current method instead of spending time finding out what works for you? There is a difference.
Click to expand...

Who said they aren't willing to try the Arrow? How do you know they didn't already try many GB templates?

Your last sentence is the one that is really funny because you don't even believe it yourself. Every person on AZB knows what Ghost Ball aiming is. All of them. Every rank beginner knows what it is. So you should assume that any decent player who is interested in aiming methods other than GB is probably doing so because GB is NOT working for them.

You could have written about the Arrow without knocking other methods but that was your intention all along to get that zinger in the end right?

Here, if the Arrow isn't doing it for you then try these

7650_R_14fcd21e.jpg

BTTABT.jpg

GeometryAtTheRailGhost.jpg

GhostBall001.jpg

aimingstickers.jpg

ez_shot_lrg.jpg

ghost_ball_aim_trainer_L.jpg

totalshottrainer3.jpg


Want more? http://www.jbcases.com/images/aiming/gb-trainers/
 
arastos said:
I like the drawing Duckie did. It is very clear and professionally done imo.

To answer his question about a device that one can use, I have been pondering this consciously and unconsciously for an unknown time. Prolly like 25 years or so. Til the other day when my butt left the chair and gathered some things. I started in the wrong direction but that is better than no direction and I ended up with ... The Matchstick Measuring Device! Soon to be patented. haha

You can make it yourself. Get a box of small kitchen matches and a tape measure. On a piece of paper measure 2 marks, 1-1/8" apart. Lay the paper on a piece of cardboard or something that will protect your table and put the match along side. Using a matt knife or something sharp, cut the match to the 1-1/8" length.

For a mounting plate, I used a thin piece of cardboard as shown in the pics and put a small hole in it so the end of the match will lay flush to the object ball. I curved it a little to help it lay flatter. Some watered down Elmers glue and stuck it in there. Set it aside and played a few racks. I didn't have a rubber band which would be better so I used one of the girls old hair thingy's to hold it to the object ball. There is little need for explanation on how to use this.

The idea is; Cue ball is 2-1/4" in diameter so the radius is 1-1/8". If you can position the matchhead in line with the center of the object ball aiming to your target, anywhere you look at it will help you aim the center of the cueball to direct it to your target. Works like a champ. I'll try and post pics and see what people think.
Click to expand...

Very creative.:thumbup:
This can help you a lot if you do know how to utilize it.

You can also use an acrylic referee ball marker.
 
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