Table length draw

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Nab0610

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I've more recently been trying/discovering this shot...

I tend to shoot it at a slight angle down at the ball low on the cue ball and a really smooth stroke. My brain calculator as us pool players call it has told me i cant hit the shot too hard or it wont draw...I'm talking about a 9 foot table and being 7+ feet from the ball I'm trying to draw off of.

When I shoot it I try to maximize back spin without over hitting the cue ball. However the only way i'm able to do this is by creating an angle on the cue ball it doesn't need to be much but i need to angle down on the cue ball to get draw at that distance...I don't feel like I should need to hit down at it I currently maybe hit down at it 30 degrees on those shots.

For reference my cue is a mali v8 and a le pro medium-hard tip...I've previously used an OB with a soft medium tip I didn't like it as much but I got a lot more action out of it in regards to english.
 
Nab0610 said:
I've more recently been trying/discovering this shot...

I tend to shoot it at a slight angle down at the ball low on the cue ball and a really smooth stroke. My brain calculator as us pool players call it has told me i cant hit the shot too hard or it wont draw...I'm talking about a 9 foot table and being 7+ feet from the ball I'm trying to draw off of.

When I shoot it I try to maximize back spin without over hitting the cue ball. However the only way i'm able to do this is by creating an angle on the cue ball it doesn't need to be much but i need to angle down on the cue ball to get draw at that distance...I don't feel like I should need to hit down at it I currently maybe hit down at it 30 degrees on those shots.

For reference my cue is a mali v8 and a le pro medium-hard tip...I've previously used an OB with a soft medium tip I didn't like it as much but I got a lot more action out of it in regards to english.
Click to expand...


I must me missing something. If the cue ball is 2 feet or less from the rail, don't you have to hit down on it to draw?
 
table length draw

There was a post on this last year and a few people opened my eyes on the way to shoot this shot. Apparently you are better off shooting with less draw.

This is extremely counter-intuitive but I believe the explanation was that what causes the cue ball to lose back spin is time spent rubbing against the cloth as it skids across the table. More speed = less time losing draw.

Well, it turns out that with an extreme draw you lose a lot of power because you're hitting it so far off center. This means it slides longer and loses more draw along the way. But if you start out with just moderate draw you hit closer to center and the cue ball sails quickly across the cloth, and loses less draw along the way. So instead of starting at a 9, losing 3, and ending with a 6, you start with an 8, lose 1, and end at a 7. This is how I conceptualize anyway.

Note: You don't have to try to hit harder, it will automatically hit harder because you are hitting closer to center.

Now, there is another benefit which is it's easier to deliver a relaxed smooth stroke when you're not on the miscue line. There may be some other factors like achieving a more optimal elevation where the cue ball planes across the table and is airborn as much as possible without losing control so it doesn't lose as much spin (maybe you're too elevated and too low).

Honestly I'm not the technical guy with stuff like this so I defer to Bob Jewett and Dr Dave for the explanations and fact checking. But all I know is that I've found shooting with draw but not maximum draw and a smooth stroke has improved my results.

My only recommendation would be to practice your draw shots from distances that are just on the edge of your comfort zone. If you're making them 90% of the time they're too easy, but if you're failing 50% of the time or more they are too tough. Focus on the edge of your comfort zone and be patient. There is no way to master pool in one night, so you can either take the path that gets there or try to rush it and end up in the wrong destination.
 
Tin Man said:
... Dr Dave for the explanations and fact checking. ...
Click to expand...
Dr. Dave included this "not max low" result in a 2009 Billiards Digest article that you can find here: https://billiards.colostate.edu/bd_articles/2009/april09.pdf

This result can also be seen in Virtual Pool which allows you to see where the cue ball will end up for a given stick speed as you vary tip position. Almost miscuing is not the best place for power draw over a long distance.

There is one other factor that is going against you as you go farther from center for max draw over distance. The spin/speed ratio goes up directly as you hit farther from center, but the speed goes down as you hit farther from center. That means that you don't get as much increase in spin RPMs as you were hoping for.
 
Tin Man has provided a much more civil response than mine, though they are both accurate.

My view is this - why try to make such a shot when you haven't yet developed the necessary stroke and skills to do so?

This is a very basic skill, though it does take time to develop. BUT trying to draw 9+ feet from 7-ft away without the requisite skills will not help your game one iota.

There are many many different practice routines that will help you to develop these skills. Focus on the drills, not one big shot.

FYI - Bob Jewetts web site has excellent drills - practice those for a year or 2, then get Ray M's book 99 Critical Shots.

-von
 
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