Table Mechanic
- Thread starter LCCS
- Start date
OTLB
Banned
Please go back and read what I said, you have twisted everything. I don't use a marble, to clarify its a 2 inch SS BB at >.005. I didn't say that you level a table this way only that you can see if a table is level this way. I DID say that you should use machinist levels.
second. I said I have 10 machinist levels, I didn't say I carry them around. I will also add that I don't think anyone in the country, thats right, thats what I said, has levels any better. As we all know no table is perfect but having better tools do allow you to do a better job. So if someone knows more than me please answer my question about what is the most accurate level.
Now you can't use straps as this will lift the ends of the slate, already tried that a long time ago.,
I didn't say that you couldn't use wood shims but guess what I can level a table without using wood shims even if the slate is bowed and has a valley in the middle. There is more than one way and I figured it out in my backyard. Plus you don't have to glue anything in there etc.
I didn't say you could do this setup of a table perfect on every table but that if you wanted to it would be a good test of your ability of being a master as in response to another posting. Its not hard to attach a large cross beam in the frame that will give you the ability to tap the slate and screw down a crown. If you can raise and lower slate why can't you match it up? If it has dowels grind them off.
Why is it when someone else here says something its OK. You think I am making this stuff up. You wouldn’t like me to challenge your postings would you???. You have been in the business alot longer than me but I am not satisfied to keep doing things the same way, if I can improve it I will. Ok you win, you know everything and I know nothing. Not going to ever mention any more of my ideas because they are all bull^&*().
second. I said I have 10 machinist levels, I didn't say I carry them around. I will also add that I don't think anyone in the country, thats right, thats what I said, has levels any better. As we all know no table is perfect but having better tools do allow you to do a better job. So if someone knows more than me please answer my question about what is the most accurate level.
Now you can't use straps as this will lift the ends of the slate, already tried that a long time ago.,
I didn't say that you couldn't use wood shims but guess what I can level a table without using wood shims even if the slate is bowed and has a valley in the middle. There is more than one way and I figured it out in my backyard. Plus you don't have to glue anything in there etc.
I didn't say you could do this setup of a table perfect on every table but that if you wanted to it would be a good test of your ability of being a master as in response to another posting. Its not hard to attach a large cross beam in the frame that will give you the ability to tap the slate and screw down a crown. If you can raise and lower slate why can't you match it up? If it has dowels grind them off.
Why is it when someone else here says something its OK. You think I am making this stuff up. You wouldn’t like me to challenge your postings would you???. You have been in the business alot longer than me but I am not satisfied to keep doing things the same way, if I can improve it I will. Ok you win, you know everything and I know nothing. Not going to ever mention any more of my ideas because they are all bull^&*().
CANT WE ALL JUST GET ALONG?? LOL
Now back to you otlb. I want you to convince me, a 20 year mechanic
who has seen quite a lot, why i should carry a metal plate with a bearing
in addition to my starretts. What is the bearing going to show me the starretts wont?? Not knocking you!! Just a honest question.
My second point. this forum has less then a dozen or so regular posters on here. We take it very seriously, so dont be alarmed when we laugh at your suggestion of doweling a frame, I first saw it my first day on the job!! If
you seriously want to help your fellow mechanics, State you have a method that works quite well and POST PICTURES!! we have had to muddle
our way thru some pretty mundane stuff,but thanks for posting. Lastly,
welcome to the forum!
Now back to you otlb. I want you to convince me, a 20 year mechanic
who has seen quite a lot, why i should carry a metal plate with a bearing
in addition to my starretts. What is the bearing going to show me the starretts wont?? Not knocking you!! Just a honest question.
My second point. this forum has less then a dozen or so regular posters on here. We take it very seriously, so dont be alarmed when we laugh at your suggestion of doweling a frame, I first saw it my first day on the job!! If
you seriously want to help your fellow mechanics, State you have a method that works quite well and POST PICTURES!! we have had to muddle
our way thru some pretty mundane stuff,but thanks for posting. Lastly,
welcome to the forum!
Ron, you're right, don't need multiple levels, but I sure like using them...LOL I like being able to see the effects of the slate changing on the far side of the table as I'm working on leveling the slate on the opposite side, that way I don't have to go around and erase my chalk marks and make new ones...over and over againLCCS said:
Glen
If you run the straps all the way around the slates, top and bottom instead of hooking them on the ends of the slates, the slate won't lift up on the ends for nothing at all...ever, but it will compress the slate seams together as much as they can be matched!OTLB said:
Glen
I'd like to see the video of you running around trying to keep all those bearings from falling off the plates....LOL, welcome to the forum, and as scruffy said, pictures buddy....go a long way on here:smile:OTLB said:
Glen
Having fun yet,OTLB? This is a funny place, lot's of know it all's here, myself included. I would bet you are not the worst nor the best, just somewhere inbetween like all the rest of us here.
There are many ways to do the job and in the end if your customer is happy with you they will be your customer for life and it doesn't matter what someone on the internet says about your way.
Please keep sharing your tips with us, maybe post some pics,answer some tech questions and have some fun.
Fun is the key word here, don't take the forum so serious.
There are many ways to do the job and in the end if your customer is happy with you they will be your customer for life and it doesn't matter what someone on the internet says about your way.
Please keep sharing your tips with us, maybe post some pics,answer some tech questions and have some fun.
Fun is the key word here, don't take the forum so serious.
To answer your question, the most accurate level for leveling slates, is a level that reads at least as level or better than the slates are ground. Meaning, that there is such a thing as over kill with a level when it comes to leveling slates, as slates can only be flexed so much to get them level, floors move when you walk around the table, and for the first 24 hours a table is set up, the frame moves under the weight of the slates, so SOME levels are an over kill, because that kind of level reading can not be kept on a pool table, to match that kind of level.OTLB said:
So the most perfect level,...is the one that allows you to level the slates to a point that the balls will not roll off
Glen
OTLB
Banned
Well, wouldn't it be nice to know after you had something level on one end that when you were doing something on the other you could see it without going down there. We all know that the lighting usually sucks right? Maybe a ball on a metal machined block plate might work. First its ok and then bang something you did might have caused it to roll off when your working on the other side, maybe it will tell you the floor has too much movement and then you have to go to Homedepot and get a couple of lolly columns and 6 x6,s and fix the floor in the basement. I have done that. So now you can use the block a couple of more ways because the level won't say anything but the block goes bang. Ok I take credit for that idea which I just created on this day of Sept.
I think the more levels the better also, since everyone agrees that you shold use machinist levels because they are more accurate than why should'nt you have the best you can get. Slate on BIlliard tables is better than pool on average from what I have seen and they deserve levels .0005 or better I think. I also charge more, I tell the customers, look normal guys might use one maybe 2. You have to use at least 4 as Al Conte told me a long time ago. Pratt and Whitney has made awesome levels, anybody have one?
I like problems, without problems you can't think about answers.
Everone in life that I know loves to see different ways of doing things. Yes you don't need a SS BB and machine block, or a durometer, or calipers but when you show someone instead of just tell them they love it.
Granted I do have alot of time on my hands and don't even like working on pool tables except for antiques. How can you make money working on $2,000 tables. I know do a hundred of them, wouldn't you like it more to deal with a person that has tons of money and doesn't care how much it is.
Ok pipe clamps work well also to compress the slate but again this is an extreme measure that most customers aren't goin to care about or pay for but I thought we needed to see about making a test.
You can also use the ball bearing to roll on the table, you can tell from the sound if the table is going low from one end to the other. I hope you all know what I mean. Do I get in the club yet?
I think the more levels the better also, since everyone agrees that you shold use machinist levels because they are more accurate than why should'nt you have the best you can get. Slate on BIlliard tables is better than pool on average from what I have seen and they deserve levels .0005 or better I think. I also charge more, I tell the customers, look normal guys might use one maybe 2. You have to use at least 4 as Al Conte told me a long time ago. Pratt and Whitney has made awesome levels, anybody have one?
I like problems, without problems you can't think about answers.
Everone in life that I know loves to see different ways of doing things. Yes you don't need a SS BB and machine block, or a durometer, or calipers but when you show someone instead of just tell them they love it.
Granted I do have alot of time on my hands and don't even like working on pool tables except for antiques. How can you make money working on $2,000 tables. I know do a hundred of them, wouldn't you like it more to deal with a person that has tons of money and doesn't care how much it is.
Ok pipe clamps work well also to compress the slate but again this is an extreme measure that most customers aren't goin to care about or pay for but I thought we needed to see about making a test.
You can also use the ball bearing to roll on the table, you can tell from the sound if the table is going low from one end to the other. I hope you all know what I mean. Do I get in the club yet?
Do you have any pics of the antiques you have worked on? I have a thread of a Fred E Newcastle antique table, I will post new pics there soon.
OTLB
Banned
Ok I disagree about levels only needing to be so good,
I agree with letting a table sit, I usually deliver tables with a helper and then go back the following week by myself because I don't want to bust my ass moving slate, frames etc around by myself etc. Plus it saves me money. Go make drops then circle back another time.
Starrett levels are already more accurate than what the slate is made to. The bubble on a .005 level has slop, the bubble on a .0005 level is sick, using them back to back tells you more, the more you know the more you know.
A digital level is made to the same tolerance of the slate and you can use on top of a good straight edge(not carpenter level). Oh yeah they don't weigh anything and I think we all know whats it like to carry levels.
I recently went to a major tournament and put my digital level on all teh tables and it wasn't that close but yet the tables played ok. Your right you don't need the best levels but again when you show the customer its cool. In fact my digital level that is as accurate as the slate didn't read perfect in a single spot on any of the tables.
Also its good to tell your supplier. AMF use to have the worst slate. I have given it away as pizza stones, patio blocks etc. Maybe if they checked their product with good levels it would have never left their doors and they could have sent it back to their supplier and might still be in business. Of course they couldn't put rubber on either and used green wood so I guess they were doomed.
Now sometimes even though slate is made to a tolerance lower than the levels the levels say its perfect. I think its cool when you get a set of slate thats mint, very rare but I have had some good ones. You would never know that though unless you tested to the highest standard.
Sort of like playing with pool balls, its nice to have good ones.
I agree with letting a table sit, I usually deliver tables with a helper and then go back the following week by myself because I don't want to bust my ass moving slate, frames etc around by myself etc. Plus it saves me money. Go make drops then circle back another time.
Starrett levels are already more accurate than what the slate is made to. The bubble on a .005 level has slop, the bubble on a .0005 level is sick, using them back to back tells you more, the more you know the more you know.
A digital level is made to the same tolerance of the slate and you can use on top of a good straight edge(not carpenter level). Oh yeah they don't weigh anything and I think we all know whats it like to carry levels.
I recently went to a major tournament and put my digital level on all teh tables and it wasn't that close but yet the tables played ok. Your right you don't need the best levels but again when you show the customer its cool. In fact my digital level that is as accurate as the slate didn't read perfect in a single spot on any of the tables.
Also its good to tell your supplier. AMF use to have the worst slate. I have given it away as pizza stones, patio blocks etc. Maybe if they checked their product with good levels it would have never left their doors and they could have sent it back to their supplier and might still be in business. Of course they couldn't put rubber on either and used green wood so I guess they were doomed.
Now sometimes even though slate is made to a tolerance lower than the levels the levels say its perfect. I think its cool when you get a set of slate thats mint, very rare but I have had some good ones. You would never know that though unless you tested to the highest standard.
Sort of like playing with pool balls, its nice to have good ones.
OTLB
Banned
Oh boy! I did 3 real nice ones so far this year, 2 Jewels and a Monarch. I only took a pic of the Monarch, now I have to look around in here to see how to put in a pic. Right now I am looking at behind me at a York, Newport and Delaware pool tables that I have going out in the next 2 weeks. I assume you all know they are antiques.
That is a legitimate question!!! Friction guys!!!!I moved an Arcade last week, the dealer that sold them the table repainted over all the entire table and inlays with that muticolored splatter paint and sold it to the for 3,000 ten yrs ago. After I told him what he had and what it could be worth he said he wanted to restore the table himself to save some money and just have me re-cushion and re-cloth it . I told him that was a good idea.