Table or opponent?

bsmutz

bsmutz

Fearlessly Happy
Silver Member
In a lot of the threads on various billiard sites, posters will state that one should play the table rather than the opponent. This is supposed to help with one's focus on the task at hand. On the other hand, what appear to be knowledgeable people state that one should also take the opponent into account and make shot selections based on the opponent's skill level. My question is, who is right? Should this decision be hard and fast, or is it open to negotiations depending on who you are playing? Is there one rule for friendly play and another during competition? It seems that the most logical choice would be to always play like it is Efren Reyes you are trying to beat. No quarter, go for the shot that gives you the best opportunity to stay at the table/get back to the table. However, there could possibly be a case made for a scenario where you feel that you may get a better opportunity if you don't lock your opponent up so tight, feeling that the shot you are going to leave is a tough one and you don't think your opponent will be able to make it given his already demonstrated ability at the table.
I know that the gamblers out there will lay off their normal speed to try to keep a fish on the line, so I would like to eliminate that as a possibility. During non-gambling situations, what do you do? Always play the table, the opponent, or both and why?
 
Your job is to play your pool game within your restrants. Opponents have nothing to do with your shot making. Saftey play is another story....SPF-randyg
 
I couldnt agree more. Some players will fire away if you play a tough safe on them...other players will try and play safe back . So in that regard knowing what your opponent is likely to do certainily helps.
 
I find that I will play a few levels lower than my normal speed when I am playing a really bad player. So in that sense, I guess it would be better to just focus on the table and forget about the opponent. Easier said than done though.
 
bsmutz said:
In a lot of the threads on various billiard sites, posters will state that one should play the table rather than the opponent. This is supposed to help with one's focus on the task at hand. On the other hand, what appear to be knowledgeable people state that one should also take the opponent into account and make shot selections based on the opponent's skill level. My question is, who is right? Should this decision be hard and fast, or is it open to negotiations depending on who you are playing? Is there one rule for friendly play and another during competition? It seems that the most logical choice would be to always play like it is Efren Reyes you are trying to beat. No quarter, go for the shot that gives you the best opportunity to stay at the table/get back to the table. However, there could possibly be a case made for a scenario where you feel that you may get a better opportunity if you don't lock your opponent up so tight, feeling that the shot you are going to leave is a tough one and you don't think your opponent will be able to make it given his already demonstrated ability at the table.
I know that the gamblers out there will lay off their normal speed to try to keep a fish on the line, so I would like to eliminate that as a possibility. During non-gambling situations, what do you do? Always play the table, the opponent, or both and why?
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You play both if you are trying to win. If you are playing a Huckleberry you can roll out after the break and get away with it, but if you are playing a real good play and roll out the will shove where the sun never shines every time, so you must adjust a little depending on the caliber of you opponent.
 
bsmutz said:
In a lot of the threads on various billiard sites, posters will state that one should play the table rather than the opponent. This is supposed to help with one's focus on the task at hand. On the other hand, what appear to be knowledgeable people state that one should also take the opponent into account and make shot selections based on the opponent's skill level. My question is, who is right? Should this decision be hard and fast, or is it open to negotiations depending on who you are playing? Is there one rule for friendly play and another during competition? It seems that the most logical choice would be to always play like it is Efren Reyes you are trying to beat. No quarter, go for the shot that gives you the best opportunity to stay at the table/get back to the table. However, there could possibly be a case made for a scenario where you feel that you may get a better opportunity if you don't lock your opponent up so tight, feeling that the shot you are going to leave is a tough one and you don't think your opponent will be able to make it given his already demonstrated ability at the table.
I know that the gamblers out there will lay off their normal speed to try to keep a fish on the line, so I would like to eliminate that as a possibility. During non-gambling situations, what do you do? Always play the table, the opponent, or both and why?
Click to expand...

Well I had a great response all written out in my head until I got to that sentance.. So now I ask the question, does it really matter what you do when your not gambling? (that's a joke, sorta..)

DJ
 
Gimme The 8 said:
You play both if you are trying to win. If you are playing a Huckleberry you can roll out after the break and get away with it, but if you are playing a real good play and roll out the will shove where the sun never shines every time, so you must adjust a little depending on the caliber of you opponent.
Click to expand...

I agree, you have to play both. The table dictates a runout or a safe. Your opponent dictates what your chances are for that runout or safe to be the correct play.
 
bsmutz said:
[...] Always play the table, the opponent, or both and why?
Click to expand...

"Play the Table, not the opponent" is one of those frequently misunderstood comments, imo.

Anytime you're at the table, you--whoever you are-- have two essential tasks.

A. Decide what to do.
B. Do it.

Ignore step A for a bit. So we're just talking about execution. You're playing 8-ball and you decide to go for the out. Your plan is to hit a stop shot for your last ball, which will leave you a "spot shot" on the 8-ball. This is a shot you normally make 75% of the time. You get down into position, and you're thinking the top players in the room make this 90% of the time. You're playing the local Top Dog, and he's watching. You strutt to the table looking condident--like this shot isn't really a big deal to you. You're conscious of making sure your cue is level, and your chin is low. Top Dog would notice these things. You're thinking about how Top Dog's out for sure if you miss. You've been hoping he's noticed you've been improving. You miss. Problem is, with that stuff in your head, you're not 75% on this shot; you're lucky to be 50%. But think about it. There's nothing the guy in the chair should be able to do to reduce that 75%. That 75% SHOULD just be an issue between you and the table. Your awareness of your opponent hurt you. For task B, we should all strive to "play the table."

Task A is more complicated. We should ignore the opponent in some ways and be keenly attentive of the opponent in other ways. What we should ignore is all the kinds of things in the last paragraph--the things that exert emotional control over us. But there is always a single goal on the horizon in task A: maximize the chance of winning the game. The analysis should be dispassionate. There's a lot to say about maximizing your chance of winning against different opponents. But a simple guideline is you should play slightly more aggressively against Top Dog than against a weaker opponent.

mike page
fargo
 
You must play both. Anyway, you can't pretend you are just playing the table. You know who you are shooting. You just can't put it out of your mind. If you are playing someone tough or better then you, you've got to bring out your best game if you want a chance to win.
 
Pool is all about the percentages. If you have a 50-50 shoot or duck shot, then it's time to weigh the percentages of your opponent's ability to get out given a miss or a safe. Factors would include not only how well they pocket balls, but kick, jump, and can do so to get safe themselves if they need to.
 
Also, if you play every match like your opponent is Efren, you will get paralyzed by never taking chances, and being too afraid to miss.

When I calculate the percentages of a shot, I also calculate the percentage of my opponent to get out if I leave a shot. So it goes like this in my head...

the shot.....maybe 70/30 make/miss, my opponent....real strong, 80/20 to get out if I miss.....so I readjust the first to 65/35 total risk. Granted, I'm not sitting there with smoke pouring out of my ears doing calculations, but it goes something like that. Not to mention where the match is at that point....

Gerry
 
Gerry said:
Also, if you play every match like your opponent is Efren, you will get paralyzed by never taking chances, and being too afraid to miss.
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I think what "play the table, not the opponent" means is not that you should play everyone like they're Efren, the point is you should play Efren like he's anyone else, i.e. your execution, including pre-shot routine and mental focus, should always be the same, because as long as you're running balls, it's doesn't matter who's in the chair.

What other posters have been saying about safes/two-way shots is correct, though. If you're thinking about giving up the table to your opponent, it's foolish not to think about what your opponent is going to do with what you give them.
Like in any turn-based game, making the right move includes considering the responses to your move.

So the bottom line is, consider your opponent when deciding about strategy. Clear your opponent from your mind when you're executing.

-Andrew
 
rackmsuckr said:
Pool is all about the percentages. If you have a 50-50 shoot or duck shot, then it's time to weigh the percentages of your opponent's ability to get out given a miss or a safe. Factors would include not only how well they pocket balls, but kick, jump, and can do so to get safe themselves if they need to.
Click to expand...

That's about what I feel as well.

Real World examples would be like for me on league nights, where I can face opponents way higher or way lower than my speed.

I without any shadow of a doubt play more aggressive against better shooters, where I have less games to win, but they are a threat to run out from anywhere. Likewise, when I am giving up a lot of weight, I play more conservative, almost assured to get one more walk to the table (if not two or three!). Playing your opponent in extreme circumstances can be critical to winning these types of matches.
 
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You should play both. You should keep the same focus nomatter who you are playing. But, if your playing a 2 in league that can't run 4 balls, why run down to the 8 and risk a scratch shot, when you know they can't get out in one trip to the table.
Chris
 
Plain fact is ..

Some players execute better than they think, and other players think better than they execute. The first are always looking for a 'Hail Mary' shot for them to win, while the latter is playing the percentages according to their
opponent. The latter type of player will usually prevail in the match.

Sometimes your game is NOT ENOUGH to win. Your break is off, your opponent is getting out, and you have to find or capitalize on some weakness your opponent has in order to turn the tide of the match. Maybe he can not jump well, or is not good on more than 1 rail kicks, or is not good at judging the speed for a kick shot. You have to use these weaknesses against him in order to give you back the edge in the match. And sometimes, when you do use them against them, it rattles them, and throws them off their game.

Any good hustler knows how to do this, and come up winning, even if there game is not exactly on. It also allows you to keep an opponent
where you want them in a match. You can not do this unless you know your game very well, and have judged your opponent well too.
This is a little bit of the difference when they say there is a difference between playing well and winning.
 
playing your best

When I first started playing in USPPA tournaments here on the West Coast, I started as something like a 40 or 45 rating (100+ being an "A" level). When I would play those high level players, I definitely played differently than when playing others...I remember riding the 9 ball a lot and winning quite a few games by shooting 9-ball combinations....much to the disgust of the opponent, but I didn't care...I just wanted to win...even though I couldn't run more than 3 or 4 balls.....After a time when I got better, maybe getting up to a 50-60 rating (where I could run a rack or two during a match), I would play conservative and safe as opposed to playing aggressively when I played the lower rated players....However, one day when I traveled to Southern California and visited a pool hall where I had never been before, I played some short cheap sets with some stranger for a couple of hours without knowing his speed and I played pretty even with the guy, winning a couple of sets and losing a couple....It was just practicing, in my mind, but just before we quit, he mentioned that they had USPPA tournaments in that room, and so I asked him what his rating was....He said it was around 90+ and I was really surprised about that because I played so well against him, but as I said I didn't know when we started and didn't care...But if I had known his speed at the beginning, I probably would not have played so well....So it depends so much on your mindset when you are playing, how you will play....because at that tiime, I was really playing the table, and not "minding the opponent"...
 
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