Tad Quality? or Just a run of bad luck.

[Ken_4fun]

Hello All -

I thought I would ask to see if its just me or has this cue adventure indicates anything.

A friend of mine bought a Tad cue off of ebay. He sent it off to Tad to get it refinished and additional shaft (it only had one). While it was out there, I traded him another cue and cash so the Tad was mine.

Tad finished it up and sent it out. We never recieved it, after about 2 weeks, we got ahold of Tad and told them about it. He had it insured and told us he would replace with a new cue for an additional $100. I thought that would be okay, I guess, so he sent out cue.

A few days later, we got the cue. The tips were incrediable hard, I had one of tipes replaced with a medium moori and it played pretty good. After about 30 days the finish on the delron buttcap started flaking off.

I called Tad again, told them of the issue. They said that they had 'several' that this had happened to and I could send it to them and Tad would take care of it. So I paid the shipping and sent them the cue. I was a little gunshy and insured for the $1800 that a new cue would cost. Shipping was about $30 bucks.

True to his word, Tad refinished the cue. They then called me and got my credit card for shipping the cue back to me. I didn't say anything at the time, but I thought it was horses$$t because I paid for shipping both ways on a cue that Tad had a problem with. He did not charge me for refinishing the cue, but I ending up having another $50 in cue because Tad had a finish problem.

I have had the cue back for about 2 weeks and I notice a hairline crack in the ferrelle. The crack on the ferrelle starts on the side opposite the tip, I would say the bottom of it verses the top. It is the standard fiber tip, not ivory and it has a tip pad.

I have never, never cracked a ferrelle. I usually request ivory ferrelles, but I didnt on this cue. I just took what was available.

So now my question, should I talk to Tad and send back, or take my lumps and have local cue guy repair it? I think I should call the cue Christine, but I dont wanna sound like a whiner, ( or weiner).

What would you cuemakers do?

Thanks
Ken

 

[Sheldon]

Talk to Tad, and tell him exactly what you told us..... He may offer to repair the ferrule and pay the shipping. Someone of his caliber probably does not want any unhappy customers, and will treat you fairly.

 

[TommyT]

I had the same problem. I don't know why he tries to apply a finish to Delrin. The finish work by TAD is not among the very best.
He gave me the runaround. It was a 5000.00 cue. I ended up sending it to Scott at Profiecient Billiards. He did a great job with the finish.

TommyT

 

[BLACKHEARTCUES]

tad quality? or just a run of bad luck.

You may not have a cracked ferrule, but instead a SCRATCHED ferrule. Try cleaning it with SOFT SCRUB or 600 grit sandpaper...JER

 

[X Breaker]

I though ferrule usually crack from the top, not the bottom.

Were you talking to Tad, or Fred?

I think you should speak with Tad about this. He has been in this business for a long time and he has seen and heard a lot of things. Dont' be shy. You did not do anything wrong and you are a customer so you should just express to him how you feel.

 

[Cue Crazy]

I though ferrule usually crack from the top, not the bottom.

Were you talking to Tad, or Fred?

I think you should speak with Tad about this. He has been in this business for a long time and he has seen and heard a lot of things. Dont' be shy. You did not do anything wrong and you are a customer so you should just express to him how you feel.

Most ferrule replacements I get are cracked on the top, but I sometimes get them cracked on the bottom too. I just got one in todays batch for replacement, and it's got a split on the bottom, but nothing on top. It's a uncapped (or atleast It is now?) It's threaded, and Has a shoulder. That tapered shoulder may have been to tight, or wedged It when the glue loosened, and played a part into it by the looks of it, but can't say for sure. I was able to unscrew it without putting heat to it, so It was slighlty loose.

 

[X Breaker]

Most ferrule replacements I get are cracked on the top, but I sometimes get them cracked on the bottom too. I just got one in todays batch for replacement, and it's got a split on the bottom, but nothing on top. It's a uncapped (or atleast It is now?) It's threaded, and Has a shoulder. That tapered shoulder may have been to tight, or wedged It when the glue loosened, and played a part into it by the looks of it, but can't say for sure. I was able to unscrew it without putting heat to it, so It was slighlty loose.

Greg,
Thank you. I have never seen one crack on the bottom myself.
Now that I think about it, I am sure the ferrule can crack either on the top or the bottom. My reasoning was that since the impact occurs on the top, the top is subjected to the most force and should therefore crack first. But you have a point. If there is internal weakness(es) in the structure, then the crack can occur anywhere along such weakness(es). And perhaps the ferrule material can play a part in the location of the crack as well. For example, with an ivory ferrule, may be it will crack at a location which is weaker. Is that possible?
I wish I can see that crack.
Are you saying the shoulder was too tight in this case? Did it crack the wood below the ferrule as well?
Thank you.
Richard

 

[Cue Crazy]

Greg,
Thank you. I have never seen one crack on the bottom myself.
Now that I think about it, I am sure the ferrule can crack either on the top or the bottom. My reasoning was that since the impact occurs on the top, the top is subjected to the most force and should therefore crack first. But you have a point. If there is internal weakness(es) in the structure, then the crack can occur anywhere along such weakness(es). And perhaps the ferrule material can play a part in the location of the crack as well. For example, with an ivory ferrule, may be it will crack at a location which is weaker. Is that possible?
I wish I can see that crack.
Are you saying the shoulder was too tight in this case? Did it crack the wood below the ferrule as well?
Thank you.
Richard

Richard,

I'll try to get a picture of it tonight for you, and post it. I got some some sales calls to return, and then have a match tonight, so afterwards, I'll try to get them up so You can see It first hand.

 

[Ken_4fun]

Tad Picture

I will try to get a picture posted as well. I really havent had too good of luck posting pictures here as my wifes camera is 5MG and there is a limit here.

She is the photographer, I am the pool player.

Thanks to everyone who responded. It is appreciated, truely.

Regards
Ken

 

[Shorty]

I will try to get a picture posted as well. I really havent had too good of luck posting pictures here as my wifes camera is 5MG and there is a limit here.

She is the photographer, I am the pool player.

Thanks to everyone who responded. It is appreciated, truely.

Regards
Ken

Hey Ken,

You should see that Fry now! Greg did a great job on the wrap buddy!

Just tell her to make the images Jpeg and size them to 800x600 and they should be okay.

Shorty

 

[Cue Crazy]

Richard,

Here's the picture of one that's cracked at the bottom. The shafts look like a full restoration is about due. I get quite a few like that. Most of the time they're cracked at the top though, from someone letting the tip get too thin. I change more ferrules because of that then anything.

I Imagine It's pretty much like your thinking as to what caused it. The shoulder fits really snug, actually It's bigger then the high part of the threads, but the bore does'nt seem to be sized correct to account for It. There is actually another shoulder or slight taper up against the face also, and the taper inside the ferrule does not seem to match up with It as well as It could. Really hard to say, but probably a series of things, shaft ferrule walls becoming thinner over time, the internal break down as you mentioned, Impact, and the shoulder thing combined.


BTW Thanks again shorty, glad you like the wrap.



Greg

 

[Ken_4fun]

Richard,

Here's the picture of one that's cracked at the bottom. The shafts look like a full restoration is about due. I get quite a few like that. Most of the time they're cracked at the top though, from someone letting the tip get too thin. I change more ferrules because of that then anything.

I Imagine It's pretty much like your thinking as to what caused it. The shoulder fits really snug, actually It's bigger then the high part of the threads, but the bore does'nt seem to be sized correct to account for It. There is actually another shoulder or slight taper up against the face also, and the taper inside the ferrule does not seem to match up with It as well as It could. Really hard to say, but probably a series of things, shaft ferrule walls becoming thinner over time, the internal break down as you mentioned, Impact, and the shoulder thing combined.


BTW Thanks again shorty, glad you like the wrap.



Greg

Greg -

The crack I have on the farrell is about 2 X longer, thinner, and at an angle.

I tried the soft scrub deal last night. It is still there.

Regards
ken

 

[Cue Crazy]

Greg -

The crack I have on the farrell is about 2 X longer, thinner, and at an angle.

I tried the soft scrub deal last night. It is still there.

Regards
ken

Huh, Try sticking your finger nail into It and see if it will spread any.
Are you sure It's fibre? I usually have decent luck with them. In fact I use them as replacements when someone can't decide what type they want, because alot of times If I go with a harder material, It's too hard for some to get use to. The fibre seems to be a good all around ferrule, and I usually get no complaints about them. I like linen based for strenth, but not everyone likes the feel of them.

Greg

 

[rhncue]

Huh, Try sticking your finger nail into It and see if it will spread any.
Are you sure It's fibre? I usually have decent luck with them. In fact I use them as replacements when someone can't decide what type they want, because alot of times If I go with a harder material, It's too hard for some to get use to. The fibre seems to be a good all around ferrule, and I usually get no complaints about them. I like linen based for strenth, but not everyone likes the feel of them.


I agree about fibres ferrules strength. Out of the many many thousands I've worked on I don't believe I've ever seen a cracked one. I've laid them on a vise anvil and beat them with a hammer and they never cracked. I don't like them and very seldom use them except on house cues because of their moisture problems and the way they turn blue from chalk in about 15 minutes of use but as far as strength they are the strongest. Many of the import cues have some type of plastic ferrule that may be confused as a fibre ferrule and they very redily will crack and many times from the bottom up. The import ferrules, if you will notice, have about a half-dozen small ridges running the length of the ferrule. These are there so that no threads or clamping devices are needed when they are installed. They just use a little bit of glue and as the ferrule is pressed down onto the tenon these ridges force a slight groove into the tenon and holds them tightly in place while the glue dries. The problem with this is when the glue breaks down ( if there was any to start with ) the ferrule can now be forced down slightly and the chamfer on the bottom of the ferrule acts like a wedge and starts a crack at the bottom of an already weak ferrule material
Dick

 

[Cue Crazy]

Huh, Try sticking your finger nail into It and see if it will spread any.
Are you sure It's fibre? I usually have decent luck with them. In fact I use them as replacements when someone can't decide what type they want, because alot of times If I go with a harder material, It's too hard for some to get use to. The fibre seems to be a good all around ferrule, and I usually get no complaints about them. I like linen based for strenth, but not everyone likes the feel of them.


I agree about fibres ferrules strength. Out of the many many thousands I've worked on I don't believe I've ever seen a cracked one. I've laid them on a vise anvil and beat them with a hammer and they never cracked. I don't like them and very seldom use them except on house cues because of their moisture problems and the way they turn blue from chalk in about 15 minutes of use but as far as strength they are the strongest. Many of the import cues have some type of plastic ferrule that may be confused as a fibre ferrule and they very redily will crack and many times from the bottom up. The import ferrules, if you will notice, have about a half-dozen small ridges running the length of the ferrule. These are there so that no threads or clamping devices are needed when they are installed. They just use a little bit of glue and as the ferrule is pressed down onto the tenon these ridges force a slight groove into the tenon and holds them tightly in place while the glue dries. The problem with this is when the glue breaks down ( if there was any to start with ) the ferrule can now be forced down slightly and the chamfer on the bottom of the ferrule acts like a wedge and starts a crack at the bottom of an already weak ferrule material
Dick

Yes that's true about the fibre, I mostly use them on house cues also, but some people are used to them anyway, and hard to give them another, because they will swear up and down something just does'nt feel right, no matter what I put on. I can pick it up and It hits fine to me. Just seems like I have better luck in that way with the fibre, that Is- when they don't know what they want, or hard to say for sure what material was on It originally. This does'nt really happen much, but has once or twice, and the only material I had that worked for them was the fibre. Ultimately I replace with what was on there when possible, because that's the safest way for them to make an easy ajustment to a new ferrule. The ones that know what they want, Usually have no issues and are perfectly happy. What material do you like in those situations, for just an all around ferrule material that most can ajust to easily? Preferably something that does'nt need capped. because capped ferrules seem to open up another can of worms when It comes to ajusting for some people also.

Sometimes the fibre can have a moisture issue. I usually try to seal good, but that's still not always enough. Had a perfect seam on one last week, and the day It was supposed to be delivered, it had expanded alittle bit, because we were getting so much rain at the time. This happened after being moved from the shop for a couple of days. I've been lucky enough, that when I have to use fibre, the person is usually more concerned with the hit that suits them, then the slight expansion issue, or chalk staining. Sealing them helps some with the chalk, but not for long, and will wear off quickly. These few types of people I mention, probably actually played with house cues most of the time, so might explain why the material suits them better, not sure. I just aim to please, and make sure their satisfied. even if I have to put on another, for them to try.

I've done alot of those plastic types you mentioned also, they do almost seem to spider web kind of, but lenthwise. They sometimes have the ridges inside to grip the tenon as you mentioned also. Looks like some kind of molded plastic. I've seen them in cues dating back to atleast the eighties, maybe even older, up to present day in alot of import type cues. I won't even try to save one of those ferrules, even if someone just wanted the face trimmed to take them out. Usually the cracks are too long anyway, but besides that, I would chuck them in the trash and put a real ferrule on.

I have been getting some newer house cues in that have ferrules made simular, but the plastic is super soft like the really el-cheapo types. First time they get hit without a tip, and that's all she wrote. That's the nice thing about fibre on house cues, I have seen them hit so many times without the tip on, that they are twice as big in diameter on the end, still did'nt crack, and it can still be trimmed, and sanded back without replacing the ferrules. That's good for room owners, because for what a ferrule replacement costs, they can get a new house cue at their cost.

Yep, that wedge theory is the same thing I was refering to with the ones I see cracked at the bottom. I aggree that probably contributes to the problem, and usually takes place when the glue breaks down.

Greg