Take that, Europe! We are USA Strong!

[JAM]

At the annual Derby City Classic, an event that not only measures ability by bankroll size, but encourages that measuring system, some of America’s top young professional talent was on display. Skyler Woodward, Justin Bergamn, Josh Roberts and Billy Thorpe were just a few of the young hotshots testing their skills against the world’s top players. In the same tournament room, young European players were also measuring themselves against the games standards. Sixteen-year-old Russian, Fedor Gorst, posted a pair of high finishes. Other young Russians like Maxim Dudanets showed glimpses of what the future looks like at the pro level. The young Americans, however, were never overmatched, particularly Thorpe, who stood head and shoulders above the rest, winning the One-Pocket title and barely missing out on the Master of the Table crown -- Mike Panozzo, BD Publisher

Take that, Europe!

Okay, I don't agree with EVERY opinion in his op-ed, but I agree with 95 percent of it.

Billiards Digest publisher Mike Panozzo knows what time of day it is --> HERE

 

[marek]

At the annual Derby City Classic, an event that not only measures ability by bankroll size, but encourages that measuring system, some of America’s top young professional talent was on display. Skyler Woodward, Justin Bergamn, Josh Roberts and Billy Thorpe were just a few of the young hotshots testing their skills against the world’s top players. In the same tournament room, young European players were also measuring themselves against the games standards. Sixteen-year-old Russian, Fedor Gorst, posted a pair of high finishes. Other young Russians like Maxim Dudanets showed glimpses of what the future looks like at the pro level. The young Americans, however, were never overmatched, particularly Thorpe, who stood head and shoulders above the rest, winning the One-Pocket title and barely missing out on the Master of the Table crown -- Mike Panozzo, BD Publisher

Take that, Europe!

Okay, I don't agree with EVERY opinion in his op-ed, but I agree with 95 percent of it.

Billiards Digest publisher Mike Panozzo knows what time of day it is --> HERE

Sure,USA is way better than Europe in 1-pocket and bankpool on average :smile: Maybe the reason is that we dont play those disciplines here..like..at all Which is good for US players as the bigger piece of pie is left for them,only very few European players dedicate themselves to learn those two disciplines. It is the same if i said that Europe is way better in snooker and Russian pyramide than USA:thumbup:

 

[JAM]

Sure,USA is way better than Europe in 1-pocket and bankpool on average :smile: Maybe the reason is that we dont play those disciplines here..like..at all Which is good for US players as the bigger piece of pie is left for them,only very few European players dedicate themselves to learn those two disciplines. It is the same if i said that Europe is way better in snooker and Russian pyramide than USA:thumbup:

Euros can play a couple games proficiently in a robotic, emotionless, tournament soldier kind of way.

We Americans play all games, always have and always will. Europe copied us and continued to believe they're superior. Emperor's New Clothes comes to mind.

There's always a paddle to fit every back side. And the U.S. now has the paddle to fit Europe's back side with our Young Guns. Watch out, Europe! There's going to be a new sheriff in town.

 

[Ekojasiloop]

There's not much of a mystery here. If there were money in pool, USA would be either one of the top producers of pool talent, or the top producer. I think this statement is bolstered just by looking at the makeup of other pro sports that are played internationally, or the olympics. Figuring the best pool players in the world however, is kinda like trying to figure out what country is the best at staring contests. Nobody cares because you can't make any money at a staring contest, so it's a moot question. Lastly, being around pool for a while, I don't find the top European players brand of play particularly astonishing at all. We are comparing players like souquet and Appleton to guys like Strickland, Siegel, hall and archer. I objectively believe there's been much better American players in the grand scheme of things, and I believe, as mentioned, if pro pool had more importance behind it we'd continue to see the same pattern. Hell, I bet even a poorer us player like Mark tadd in his prime could give all Europe the 8 for big cash and win. Just what I think, I could be wrong.

 

[Cezar Morales]

Euros can play a couple games proficiently in a robotic, emotionless, tournament soldier kind of way.

We Americans play all games, always have and always will. Europe copied us and continued to believe they're superior. Emperor's New Clothes comes to mind.

There's always a paddle to fit every back side. And the U.S. now has the paddle to fit Europe's back side with our Young Guns. Watch out, Europe! There's going to be a new sheriff in town.

Now , you' re part of the reason why American pool will stay stagnant for the next 50 yrs, AT LEAST I MEAN.

Being delutional is one of the stupidest mistake one can ever make.
Instead of analyzing what's really wrong with the state of american pool, u try to find fault and discredit the european style of play.
Robotic? Motion-less ? Really ?

Do u expect albin or ruslan to start hi-5ing everyone in the crowd or pump their chest like king kong after making a good shot ?
Every player has their own style, no need to find fault in that.
Sure , i do agree that Billy Thorpe has potential to be a good player but its gonna a long road before he's gonna establish himself a world-beater against the likes of taiwanese n filpinos.
Its not too late to wake up !

You can only improve when you accept your flaws n work on em instead of lying to urself with delutional excuses.

 

[JAM]

Now , you' re part of the reason why American pool will stay stagnant for the next 50 yrs, AT LEAST I MEAN.

Being delutional is one of the stupidest mistake one can ever make.
Instead of analyzing what's really wrong with the state of american pool, u try to find fault and discredit the european style of play.
Robotic? Motion-less ? Really ?

Do u expect albin or ruslan to start hi-5ing everyone in the crowd or pump their chest like king kong after making a good shot ?
Every player has their own style, no need to find fault in that.
Sure , i do agree that Billy Thorpe has potential to be a good player but its gonna a long road before he's gonna establish himself a world-beater against the likes of taiwanese n filpinos.
Its not too late to wake up !

You can only improve when you accept your flaws n work on em instead of lying to urself with delutional excuses.

Thank you for sharing your opinion. I disagree with you, but it is okay to have a difference of opinions. I'm not delusional, though, and I resent your remark in that regard.

Why don't you read the article in the link, as it could shed some light on why I made this thread. Then maybe you won't appear to be so delusional when you spew your so-called "words of wisdom" on this forum.

And, yes, I think the European style of play sucks a big weenie. Call me delusional, but it's boring. I'd rather watch paint dry, and I like pool.

 

[afittsch]

And, yes, I think the European style of play sucks a big weenie. Call me delusional, but it's boring. I'd rather watch paint dry, and I like pool.

I'm confused. US will come back. Good. But isn't the article proposing exacly the european approach... more technique, less show?

Looking at any tournament in the US, how many of the top players from Europe are ever showing up in the US? Far more than US players do in Europe, but many of the top players from the Euro Tour have never played in the US. So, enjoy Derby City, a great tournament, but not a measure for the quality of US pool compared to the rest of the world.

 

[JAM]

I'm confused. US will come back. Good. But isn't the article proposing exacly the european approach... more technique, less show?

Looking at any tournament in the US, how many of the top players from Europe are ever showing up in the US? Far more than US players do in Europe, but many of the top players from the Euro Tour have never played in the US. So, enjoy Derby City, a great tournament, but not a measure for the quality of US pool compared to the rest of the world.

Thank you for reading the article.

I said I only agreed with 95 percent of the article. What caught my attention was the praise given to American young guns; the next-gen pool players, if you will.

Many European events don't pay money, though they do give tin cups and titles. Many Europeans like America for the money payouts, even though the payouts are small by comparison to other more lucrative tournaments in the Middle East and Asia.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

 

[JAM]

I'm confused. US will come back. Good. But isn't the article proposing exacly the european approach... more technique, less show?

Looking at any tournament in the US, how many of the top players from Europe are ever showing up in the US? Far more than US players do in Europe, but many of the top players from the Euro Tour have never played in the US. So, enjoy Derby City, a great tournament, but not a measure for the quality of US pool compared to the rest of the world.

Oh, I gave you some greenies, which you may not know what they are, but I did it because I liked the tone of your post. Thanks again!

 

[DaveK]

Thank you for sharing your opinion. I disagree with you, but it is okay to have a difference of opinions. I'm not delusional, though, and I resent your remark in that regard.

Why don't you read the article in the link, as it could shed some light on why I made this thread. Then maybe you won't appear to be so delusional when you spew your so-called "words of wisdom" on this forum.

And, yes, I think the European style of play sucks a big weenie. Call me delusional, but it's boring. I'd rather watch paint dry, and I like pool.

The article seems complimentary to Mark Wilson and his approach to the game. I wonder what his opinion is of the "European game" ? I suspect he admires it, but that is just my opinion.

I certainly agree with the authors comment "The takeaway for me was that these kids were being properly coached in an organized and regimented environment. Fundamentals, proper competition, responsibility. The Lindenwood students are learning the game in an environment that does not measure ability by the size of your bankroll."

This could be a description of the Europeans too.

Of course I am not a fan of the "big talk" or "woofing" game of pool. To each their own.

Dave

 

[pmac666]

poor JAM....... thats what i call a lose lose situation!
either the US wont take over the next few years or decades (thats what i think and i will continue to enjoy some whiney and delusional posts here) or they have to become one of those emotionless, mommy pool playing tourneyrobots, no way around lol
have fun watching your paint dry! :thumbup:
good article btw and i agree on the talent part, only that talent is not everything and it wont change a thing anyways aslong as the money is in 1p and on bartables, and aslong as the majority of US pros dont compete overseas!

 

[shinobi]

Euros can play a couple games proficiently in a robotic, emotionless, tournament soldier kind of way.

Yeah, what a bunch of morons they are taking the game seriously and winning every recent Mosconi cup with hilariously lopsided scores.

Better to smile, joke and drink a Budweiser so the losing doesn't hurt so bad.

 

[jasonlaus]

Yeah, what a bunch of morons they are taking the game seriously and winning every recent Mosconi cup with hilariously lopsided scores.

Better to smile, joke and drink a Budweiser so the losing doesn't hurt so bad.

Nuff said. And not a 1 of them are looking to play Shaw in his robotic manner
Jason

 

[M.G.]

Hey Jam,

you really need to chill out. It's OK to be excited about the new US players.
It's not OK to try to trample on Europe and their achievements in the past and how boring their playing is. Ouschan is very interesting to watch and even all-time favourite van Boening is playing very similar; the only player right now from the US that's actually "excellent".

As a direct quote from the article...

He notices a difference in the way players in the U.S. develop. “Players here are on the road gambling when they are 13,” he said. “I think that hurts your game. Technique and process are critical in the early stages. The early focus here is not about technique. It’s about wins. If you can only reach 80 percent of perfect in your technique, you will never achieve 100 percent in your results.”

... and that actually says: do it the European way :thumbup:
And yes, I am looking forward to interesting new matches in the Mosconi cup.

Not so much to seeing J. Bergman again, only if he really works on his manners and attitude.

Cheers.

 

[JAM]

Yeah, what a bunch of morons they are taking the game seriously and winning every recent Mosconi cup with hilariously lopsided scores.

Better to smile, joke and drink a Budweiser so the losing doesn't hurt so bad.

As the other member stated, the Derby City Classic isn't the be-all, end-all of pool, and neither is the Mosconi Cup. The Mosconi Cup with its quick races isn't really a thermometer of who's the best.

FWIW, Americans -- at some of us -- take pool serious too. :smile:

 

[JAM]

Hey Jam,

you really need to chill out. It's OK to be excited about the new US players.
It's not OK to try to trample on Europe and their achievements in the past and how boring their playing is. Ouschan is very interesting to watch and even all-time favourite van Boening is playing very similar; the only player right now from the US that's actually "excellent".

As a direct quote from the article...



... and that actually says: do it the European way :thumbup:
And yes, I am looking forward to interesting new matches in the Mosconi cup.

Not so much to seeing J. Bergman again, only if he really works on his manners and attitude.

Cheers.

Cheers back atcha. I am chilling out. I am an American who is counteracting what I consider a bad thread on this forum written by an American about USA sucks at pool.

Mainstream media will never generate an interest in pool if pool is not exciting. When the Olympic Games happen, there are many feature stories about the players, their families and personalities, their bios, and when these players actually compete, it's exciting to watch them. These Olympic champions are not afraid to show a little emotion. And I'm talking about Olympic champions around the world, not just Americans.

With pool, there has always been the conflict between the pool purist and the action enthusiast The pool purist school of thought is to watch mum pool played by robots with no emotion. The action enthusiast enjoys a different style of pool, one with emotion. Therein lies the problem with why pool seems to have one tire in the mud when it comes to popularity in some regions of the world.

Thanks for sharing your thoughs. :smile:

 

[M.G.]

As the other member stated, the Derby City Classic isn't the be-all, end-all of pool, and neither is the Mosconi Cup. The Mosconi Cup with its quick races isn't really a thermometer of who's the best.

FWIW, Americans -- at some of us -- take pool serious too. :smile:

That gets repeated all the time, but only by US guys.
I kind of think that race to 5 or 7 is all you need to gauge skill; take alternative break and be done with it. Snooker even does best of 7 in the pre-rounds. That means 4 won frames already wins the game.

Longer races just mean you will be playing the numbers (averages) more and it also evens out in the end and everybody gets bored.

Let's just be happy and look forward to interesting matches.
BTW, the USBTC showed that Billy Thorpe is not really ready yet; his position play was complex with a lot of motion and/or spin and far too much speed. OTOH he actually did a few jab shots in the video I watched.
But he's young and wants to ride wild and that's OK.

Cheers,
M

PS: I gladly watch the "old farts", too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-u1TQFnI_tc

 

[JAM]

That gets repeated all the time, but only by US guys.
I kind of think that race to 5 or 7 is all you need to gauge skill; take alternative break and be done with it. Snooker even does best of 7 in the pre-rounds. That means 4 won frames already wins the game.

Longer races just mean you will be playing the numbers (averages) more and it also evens out in the end and everybody gets bored.

Let's just be happy and look forward to interesting matches.
BTW, the USBTC showed that Billy Thorpe is not really ready yet; his position play was complex with a lot of motion and/or spin and far too much speed. OTOH he actually did a few jab shots in the video I watched.
But he's young and wants to ride wild and that's OK.

Cheers,
M

PS: I gladly watch the "old farts", too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-u1TQFnI_tc

It will be interesting to see how Josh Roberts and Billy Thorpe fare in the Make it Happen One-Pocket event. It will be a pressure-type coverage, so this is good experience for both.

Mike Panozzo of Billiards Digest also wrote a very interesting article of a one-on-one interview he had with the Dutch coach: http://www.billiardsdigest.com/new_current_issue/mar_17/bb_index.php

I do not agree with this coach's selection strategy on some fronts, but it's not my job to be coach. Time will tell, as they say, as far as Mosconi Cup goes.

Again, Mosconi Cup is just one event of short races. I don't think is a good measuring stick.

One thing for sure, the "old farts" used to play all games, to include snooker. Europeans are starting to acquire more pocket billiard game skills, but many of them are one-trick ponies and can only excel in one pocket billiard game. Nothing wrong with that, I guess. As my mother always said, "If you're going to do something, do it right or don't do it at all."

 

[SJDinPHX]

Cheers back atcha. I am chilling out. I am an American who is counteracting what I consider a bad thread on this forum written by an American about USA sucks at pool.

Mainstream media will never generate an interest in pool if pool is not exciting. When the Olympic Games happen, there are many feature stories about the players, their families and personalities, their bios, and when these players actually compete, it's exciting to watch them. These Olympic champions are not afraid to show a little emotion. And I'm talking about Olympic champions around the world, not just Americans.

With pool, there has always been the conflict between the pool purist and the action enthusiast The pool purist school of thought is to watch mum pool played by robots with no emotion. The action enthusiast enjoys a different style of pool, one with emotion. Therein lies the problem with why pool seems to have one tire in the mud when it comes to popularity in some regions of the world.

Jam, you don't seem to realize what a hang-up you (and many others) have on the failure of the media to present pool in a more exciting, favorable light!..The Olympics, the NFL or the NBA will always grab the spotlight, (and the sponsors) strictly by the numbers involved!..Pool will only be interesting to diehard 'pool degenerates', and there just ain't enough of us!

Of the several million who play pool in the US, 98% are league players, who don't ever watch pool on TV, or even know (or care) who SVB, or Alex P. is anyway!..But almost all of them bet on all the other sports!..Big $$$$ sponsorship will never be attainable for pool!..I hate it too, but it is what it is..To the rest of the world, pool is more of a pastime, than a sport or game!..Sadly, that will never change!

 

[JAM]

Jam, you don't seem to realize what a hang-up you have on the failure of the media to present pool in a more exciting, favorable light!..The Olympics, the NFL or the NBA will always grab the spotlight..Pool will only be interesting to 'pool degenerates', and there just ain't enough of us!

Of the several million who play pool in the US, 98% are league players, who don't ever watch pool on TV, or even know (or care) who SVB, or Alex P. is anyway!..Thats why big $$$$ sponsorship will never be attainable!..I hate it too, but it is what it is..To the rest of the world, pool is more of a pastime, than a sport or game!..Sadly, that will never change!

You seem to be writing what I have written numerous, numerous times on this forum ad nauseum. This ain't my first rodeo when it comes to writing about the state of pool in America.

Welcome to AzBilliards, Dick! :grin-square: