Taken lessons from any strong player?

[SpiderWebComm]

Well, i gotta say that imo this guys threads/posts are too long, rambling, poorly punctuated and WAAAAAAY to full of this 'DEEP SEEING' shit. Enough for me. Tossin him on the Ignore pile. I gave him a chance but the honeymoon's over. SEE?????

I just got to the party on this thread and don't care to get into a flame war over it. But why the backlash on the word SEE itself?
ALL shots start with SEEING the pocket, the OB, and the CB. I have NEVER watched a blind guy play pool for shit. Even as the aging process affects the eyes with weaker vision or cataracts, the game suffers from not seeing as sharply. Aren't those who use contact points, fractions, or even a dead straight in shot SEEING where the CB needs to be on the OB to send it into a pocket?

 

[George the Greek]

Well, i gotta say that imo this guys threads/posts are too long, rambling, poorly punctuated and WAAAAAAY to full of this 'DEEP SEEING' shit. Enough for me. Tossin him on the Ignore pile. I gave him a chance but the honeymoon's over. SEE?????

I see said the blind man to his son as he picked up the hammer and saw

 

[garczar]

I just got to the party on this thread and don't care to get into a flame war over it. But why the backlash on the word SEE itself?
ALL shots start with SEEING the pocket, the OB, and the CB. I have NEVER watched a blind guy play pool for shit. Even as the aging process affects the eyes with weaker vision or cataracts, the game suffers from not seeing as sharply

The guy has gone to extreme lengths(imo) using his 'see' crap. Kinda need to read more of threads/posts i guess. I found them to be kinda goofy then irritating. Hence tossing him in Ignore.

 

[SpiderWebComm]

The guy has gone to extreme lengths(imo) using his 'see' crap. Kinda need to read more of threads/posts i guess. I found them to be kinda goofy then irritating. Hence tossing him in Ignore.

I was a hair away from throwing you into ignore at one point. Then I realized you did in fact know your stuff in various areas and we had very similar viewpoints and ways of replying to those we disliked and didn't agree with. No wonder there's a group around here that hate my ass. But, IDGAF and you don't either. No cow towing and kissing butt!
When it comes to making balls, we ALL have to SEE the POCKET the OB the CB and TIP of the cue. No other way to do it. The problem and venom come to be based on HOW AND WHAT we see to do it! Pretty moronic to tell the truth.

 

[straightline]

The guy has gone to extreme lengths(imo) using his 'see' crap. Kinda need to read more of threads/posts i guess. I found them to be kinda goofy then irritating. Hence tossing him in Ignore.

Doesn't deal with blunt well but his fault for playing the mystery card. Still, I'm curious. He kinda reminds me of Speedercom in a way

 

[SpiderWebComm]

Doesn't deal with blunt well but his fault for playing the mystery card. Still, I'm curious. He kinda reminds me of Speedercom in a way

Are you trying to start some crap, hotshot? What do YOU have to offer on the subject?

 

[straightline]

Are you trying to start some crap, hotshot? What do YOU have to offer on the subject?

See? lol.
Posted colored pictures I did in Paint. Not my stuff but my implementation. Identifies shots better than any alignment method I've come across. My solution to the aiming problem is stop at the stick line. You can't aim any more than that.
Works for me.

 

[SpiderWebComm]

See? lol.
Posted colored pictures I did in Paint. Not my stuff but my implementation. Identifies shots better than any alignment method I've come across. My solution to the aiming problem is stop at the stick line. You can't aim any more than that.
Works for me.

Here's my alignment method. Set an OB on the table anywhere and choose a pocket to use as the target. After choosing the pocket, place the CB against the OB so both of them are dead straight into the middle of the pocket and the tip/shaft of the cue is dead center of the CB aimed at center of OB and pocket. Would you agree that is the correct alignment and shot picture one must have to make the ball? Keep it all in place and take one large step to the right. The edge of the CB and Center of the CB will still be clearly visible but now at different places on the OB. OBSERVE WHERE. (where is the edge and center of the CB on the OB. Then take another step and the edge of the CB and Center of the CB will have moved to a different point on the OB. OBSERVE WHERE.
We can keep doing this until it's edge to edge. If this seems too outrageous for your brain to comprehend and impossible, voodoo, bullshit, or anything else...it's YOUR problem, not mine because EVERY SINGLE SHOT ON THE TABLE will have the edge of the CB and center of the CB painted against the colors of an OB. It's called CENTER TO EDGE...CTE.

Who wants to say to the world this can't be seen or how the balls look or can look when aligning to make a shot? The CB edge is ALWAYS there as vividly as can be painted on the OB. Your method above? OK, FINE. Once you're settled in to pull the cue back, take a look at where the edge and center of the CB is on the OB.

 

[jjohnson]

From what I've been told, Cole could not have gotten so good so fast without a knowledgeable and experienced mentor. Even being a prodigy as Cole was. Again, from what I've been told, it might have been Sax Del Porto. Probably Bucktooth as well from the gambler/hustler point of view.

Ultimate SEEING and Execution will be a small (or big) example of this.

Just an aside: Cole had what I would say were big hands and large wrists. When he stroked up, his hand swiveled quite loosely on his wrist. I believe this is what allowed him to have a world class stroke in combination utilizing a slip stroke. Here is a shot I saw him execute: He stood at the head of the table about a diamond and a half from the right corner pocket. He placed the cue ball about 6 inches from the head short rail. He had placed the 9-ball one diamond up from the right corner pocket at the foot of the table and one half diamond to the left. Give or take. So it was an 8+ foot shot. He jacked up his cue to about 70+ degrees. He shot the 9-ball cleanly onto the corner pocket and drew the cue ball back to the rail he was standing at and the cue came off the head rail and came to rest 3 diamonds up. 11+ feet of draw or thereabouts.

If you hadn't noticed, Efren uses a slip stroke occasionally. Only about an inch or so at most. I've seen Cole's slip stoke be as much as 4, even 6 inches on occasion.

 

[straightline]

Here's my alignment method. Set an OB on the table anywhere and choose a pocket to use as the target. After choosing the pocket, place the CB against the OB so both of them are dead straight into the middle of the pocket and the tip/shaft of the cue is dead center of the CB aimed at center of OB and pocket. Would you agree that is the correct alignment and shot picture one must have to make the ball? Keep it all in place and take one large step to the right. The edge of the CB and Center of the CB will still be clearly visible but now at different places on the OB. OBSERVE WHERE. (where is the edge and center of the CB on the OB. Then take another step and the edge of the CB and Center of the CB will have moved to a different point on the OB. OBSERVE WHERE.
We can keep doing this until it's edge to edge. If this seems too outrageous for your brain to comprehend and impossible, voodoo, bullshit, or anything else...it's YOUR problem, not mine because EVERY SINGLE SHOT ON THE TABLE will have the edge of the CB and center of the CB painted against the colors of an OB. It's called CENTER TO EDGE...CTE.

Who wants to say to the world this can't be seen or how the balls look or can look when aligning to make a shot? The CB edge is ALWAYS there as vividly as can be painted on the OB. Your method above? OK, FINE. Once you're settled in to pull the cue back, take a look at where the edge and center of the CB is on the OB.

Seems like _you_ said all that. ^^

Centers and edges are pretty much constant so they do make good references if they figure into the shot. Maybe centers require more good judgement but they're still reliable. This is where I cut away from that edge method.

Most straight ins aren't actually straight. The line of centers will go through the pocket at an angle or maybe not at all. This gets progressively more difficult to see as the shots get longer.
Solution:
Find the centerline to the pocket or target - combination, whatever. Run that line back to the cueball. If that line does anything but bisect the cueball, obviously the shot is not straight. No problem. Run the cue ball line parallel to the object ball line. Like this:

Connect the contacts. There's your shot line. I use my stick to determine this alignment. This elusive straight in is now a function of the cuemaker cut the stick plenty straight enough.
Apply appropriate pool know how, shoot.

 

[SpiderWebComm]

Seems like _you_ said all that. ^^

Centers and edges are pretty much constant so they do make good references if they figure into the shot.

That's the point of CTE. Those ARE the references for every shot. At some point for severe cuts it's the edge only.

Maybe centers require more good judgement but they're still reliable. This is where I cut away from that edge method.

Well, I don't because it's clearly visible across the entire face of the OB just like an eclipse of the moon or sun.

Most straight ins aren't actually straight. The line of centers will go through the pocket at an angle or maybe not at all. This gets progressively more difficult to see as the shots get longer.

It doesn't matter. There are other things to do and look for with the tip of the cue or head and eye positions by slightly angling the eyes. Something I'm not going to get into or even start to explain. In CJ Wiley's case, what he might do is still aim in the exact same spot but very slightly parallel shift to the inside to squirt the CB to the exact contact point to create the angle. Do you understand what I'm trying to get across? (as well as what he tries to get across with a "touch of inside")
The tip of the cue can be incrementally pivoted at a slight angle also to change the shot line. IOW you aim thick...pivot...and that creates the angle. Again, something I'm not going to get into or even start to explain especially with rock hard closed minds as there has been going on 30 years now.

Whatever you and everyone else do and uses, just be happy. I'm happy for you and especially for me in what I do because it flat out works and is simple in its seeming complexity to others.

 

[FranCrimi]

If you hadn't noticed, Efren uses a slip stroke occasionally. Only about an inch or so at most. I've seen Cole's slip stoke be as much as 4, even 6 inches on occasion.

Are you sure Efren is slipping? I always thought he was releasing. Slipping is letting go on the way back and releasing is letting go on the way forward.

 

[dquarasr]

Here's my alignment method. Set an OB on the table anywhere and choose a pocket to use as the target. After choosing the pocket, place the CB against the OB so both of them are dead straight into the middle of the pocket and the tip/shaft of the cue is dead center of the CB aimed at center of OB and pocket. Would you agree that is the correct alignment and shot picture one must have to make the ball? Keep it all in place and take one large step to the right. The edge of the CB and Center of the CB will still be clearly visible but now at different places on the OB. OBSERVE WHERE. (where is the edge and center of the CB on the OB. Then take another step and the edge of the CB and Center of the CB will have moved to a different point on the OB. OBSERVE WHERE.
We can keep doing this until it's edge to edge. If this seems too outrageous for your brain to comprehend and impossible, voodoo, bullshit, or anything else...it's YOUR problem, not mine because EVERY SINGLE SHOT ON THE TABLE will have the edge of the CB and center of the CB painted against the colors of an OB. It's called CENTER TO EDGE...CTE.

Huh?

Ok, I set up an OB and the CB as you described. Yes, eventually the edge of the CB is visible at the edge of the OB. If I am doing this right, it’s 90° from the dead-on line. Is that correct?

Ok, I agree that the edge of the CB and the center of the CB can be seen on the OB … until I get past a 45° angle at which point thereafter the center of the CB is beyond the edge of the OB.

What does this get me? I don’t understand how this is useful knowledge. Can you please explain?

 

[straightline]

That's the point of CTE. Those ARE the references for every shot. At some point for severe cuts it's the edge only.

Well, I don't because it's clearly visible across the entire face of the OB just like an eclipse of the moon or sun.

It doesn't matter. There are other things to do and look for with the tip of the cue or head and eye positions by slightly angling the eyes. Something I'm not going to get into or even start to explain. In CJ Wiley's case, what he might do is still aim in the exact same spot but very slightly parallel shift to the inside to squirt the CB to the exact contact point to create the angle. Do you understand what I'm trying to get across? (as well as what he tries to get across with a "touch of inside")
The tip of the cue can be incrementally pivoted at a slight angle also to change the shot line. IOW you aim thick...pivot...and that creates the angle. Again, something I'm not going to get into or even start to explain especially with rock hard closed minds as there has been going on 30 years now.

Whatever you and everyone else do and uses, just be happy. I'm happy for you and especially for me in what I do because it flat out works and is simple in its seeming complexity to others.

My point's always been the obfuscation of ETC. (tag scrambler) You know that.

Pool is very much <where the stick meets the rock> and as such players become very attuned to where that stick is pointed. The angle of the stick alone is sufficient to make center ball hits. CPG supplies this angle with such finity that the stick line becomes a reference. IOW the correct stick line provides the base for left or right english and/or any required calibration.
It's less vulnerable to distraction too.

 

[maha]

after you hit a million shots it is intuitive where to hit and your alignment and stick finds the place on its own.

any other way and your mind creates doubt and you get fidgety or choke on tough shots.

 

[straightline]

after you hit a million shots it is intuitive where to hit and your alignment and stick finds the place on its own.

Yes but what have you been hitting all those million shots? In all likelihood it's a collection of pet things you've done for cash.

any other way and your mind creates doubt and you get fidgety or choke on tough shots.

Gotta say this is probably only true for natural gamblers like yourself.

 

[maha]

regular gamblers tend not to choke as they are used to real pressure. so it becomes second nature.

practice for a time just walking up to the shot from any angle and just plopping down with your hand where it should go in one smooth motion and shoot from there. dont hesitate and dont worry about missing. after say 50 times you will be making every reasonable shot. and will learn how your body and hands naturally want to go. instead of many people forcing their body and hands to be placed out of character for what your mind wants to do.

now if you have poor hand and eye co- ordination it may not work too well. but in that cast the person isnt ever going to be more than average at best.

 

[straightline]

regular gamblers tend not to choke as they are used to real pressure. so it becomes second nature.

practice for a time just walking up to the shot from any angle and just plopping down with your hand where it should go in one smooth motion and shoot from there. dont hesitate and dont worry about missing. after say 50 times you will be making every reasonable shot. and will learn how your body and hands naturally want to go. instead of many people forcing their body and hands to be placed out of character for what your mind wants to do.

now if you have poor hand and eye co- ordination it may not work too well. but in that cast the person isnt ever going to be more than average at best.

This makes sense. I've seen a handful of heavies live as well as the current heavies in action on various video and the dog factor is very low amongst them. I doubt that precludes anyone from flawless play.

 

[SpiderWebComm]

Huh?

Ok, I set up an OB and the CB as you described. Yes, eventually the edge of the CB is visible at the edge of the OB. If I am doing this right, it’s 90° from the dead-on line. Is that correct?

Ok, I agree that the edge of the CB and the center of the CB can be seen on the OB … until I get past a 45° angle at which point thereafter the center of the CB is beyond the edge of the OB.

What does this get me? I don’t understand how this is useful knowledge. Can you please explain?

It's on YouTube, in the book, or you can get lessons directly from Tyler Styer (multiple Mosconi Cup team member and tournament winner. He's a certified instructor) or Stan Shuffett. Anybody that really knows CTE has been banned from the Aiming Forum which includes me. (Makes a lot of sense to have a bunch of "know nothings and haters" slamming it there as if they know). I'm not going to do it here.

 

[SpiderWebComm]

after you hit a million shots it is intuitive where to hit and your alignment and stick finds the place on its own.

any other way and your mind creates doubt and you get fidgety or choke on tough shots.

So, does that mean that everyone is now at pro level? If not, why not? (I want to buy one of these intuitive AI sticks!)