Taken lessons from any strong player?

jjohnson said:
I am not exactly sure what you are referring to with "contact points." The only shot alignment contact points I know of are the cue tip/cue ball or cue ball strike point, and the cue ball/object ball contact point. Generally speaking, we all know what these are. When I speak of a tool/technique, I am alluding to not an actual physical material thing, I am referring to a mental perceptual concept. Thinking about something that probably no one has thought of exactly in the same way before. You speak of "work is better spent referencing these lines." What does this mean? Explain just the simplest example how this is done. It is the how or execution I am asking for. How can you achieve your goal exactly precisely and guarantee you can be assured of this, nearly almost every single time. How do you work at this referencing process exactly?
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Jimmy Reid EAO SL.jpg


The blue line is the line of centers.
The red line is the point to point line.
The black lines are the object ball direction line and the actual shot line.
The yellow line is there to show the exact intersection with the base of the ghost ball.

Once you have determined what your shot will be, (minus lines and plus actual balls) this is what you'll be shooting at:
CPG Ellipse60.jpg

It's a simple and precise reference.

Or you can guesstimate like all the preferred methods.
 
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skiergd011013 said:
Yes, some house pro out of a pool hall in Boston ( complete waste of time), and allison fisher in 2021. Allison was good, but the class size was larger than advertised, which irritated me, and resulted in the one on one time being pretty small. Honestly, i learned far more by myself by taking a video of myself playing, seeing the flaws, and using youtube instruction videos. I dont have a table, so i set up an ironing board at table height, use a mirror, and practice stroke/stance while looking at the mirror.

Earl strickland was at the same venue as allisons lessons, and i played him a few games. He said i was a good player. So i guess im not doing too bad.
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I forget who it was, but the recommendation was that any pool player most likely does not need an instructor. An analogous example is when a mother tells her son to stand up straight. If the kid wants to stand up straight why does he need a nag to keep harping on him. He can just stand in front of a mirror...

You sound as if you are in need of some financial assistance. Good luck with that.

I have been living in a reasonably nice apartment complex that has an okay 9-foot pool table in the rec room that is available 10am - 5pm every day and usually open and available. Otherwise I'd order an ironing board and mirror myself from Amazon.
 
Many of the best picked it up by being around what it is and simply doing it. No rules there. One of the follies and I should point out that this is only relative to growing into a full fledged pooler, IS:

The body of work involves people who just want help with their curiosity and lack the time for sure and maybe even the actual interest to develop it themselves. I think this is true of almost any kind of unregulated education.
 
jjohnson said:
Nice pictures. You've posted them before.
"Practice this 1000 times..." Etc.?
Just one of many problems/unknowns with your pictures: how do I shoot straight?
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That's a matter of technique. Many pick it up by observing pool in action. Perfecting this menial skill (stroking accurately) is always on the shooter.

Diffusing the issue has no bearing on the diagrams.
 
jjohnson said:
Probably most of you have met strong players. Have any of you taken lessons from any strong player? Did your game improve? By how much? Any of you that took lessons from a strong player, did you become a strong player, too? Did you surpass your teacher(s)?
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I’m currently doing lessons with Roberto gomez
It’s improved my game so much with starting from the bottom and working all the way up
I won’t surpass him but I can be more consistent and competitive and feel after each lesson I make great jumps in skills
 
straightline said:
Many of the best picked it up by being around what it is and simply doing it. No rules there. One of the follies and I should point out that this is only relative to growing into a full fledged pooler, IS:

The body of work involves people who just want help with their curiosity and lack the time for sure and maybe even the actual interest to develop it themselves. I think this is true of almost any kind of unregulated education.
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From what I've been told, Cole could not have gotten so good so fast without a knowledgeable and experienced mentor. Even being a prodigy as Cole was. Again, from what I've been told, it might have been Sax Del Porto. Probably Bucktooth as well from the gambler/hustler point of view.

Ultimate SEEING and Execution will be a small (or big) example of this.

Just an aside: Cole had what I would say were big hands and large wrists. When he stroked up, his hand swiveled quite loosely on his wrist. I believe this is what allowed him to have a world class stroke in combination utilizing a slip stroke. Here is a shot I saw him execute: He stood at the head of the table about a diamond and a half from the right corner pocket. He placed the cue ball about 2 - 3 inches from the head short rail. He had placed the 9-ball one diamond up from the right corner pocket at the foot of the table and one half diamond to the left. Give or take. So it was an 8+ foot shot. He jacked up his cue to about 70+ degrees. He shot the 9-ball cleanly onto the corner pocket and drew the cue ball back to the rail he was standing at and the cue came off the head rail and came to rest 3 diamonds up. 11+ feet of draw or thereabouts.
 
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straightline said:
That's a matter of technique. Many pick it up by observing pool in action. Perfecting this menial skill (stroking accurately) is always on the shooter.

Diffusing the issue has no bearing on the diagrams.
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What do you mean: "diffusing the issue"?
I ask the readers to look up the definition of the word "menial."
So, your answer to the question of: how do you shoot straight is only for a what?
A low class servile servant?
You absolve yourself of such trivialities?
To answer the question is beneath you?
Your pictures and accompanying text will get the job done?
How so?

I think I am done with you.
Hope my short term memory problems won't keep me from remembering to ignore your non-advices.
I am not even going to take the time to edit this post even if it needs it.
 
jjohnson said:
From what I've been told, Cole could not have gotten so good so fast without a knowledgeable and experienced mentor. Even being a prodigy as Cole was. Again, from what I've been told, it might have been Sax Del Porto. Probably Bucktooth as well from the gambler/hustler point of view.

Ultimate SEEING and Execution will be a small (or big) example of this.

Just an aside: Cole had what I would say were big hands and large wrists. When he stroked up, his hand swiveled quite loosely on his wrist. I believe this is what allowed him to have a world class stroke in combination utilizing a slip stroke. Here is a shot I saw him execute: He stood at the head of the table about a diamond and a half from the right corner pocket. He placed the cue ball about 6 inches from the head short rail. He had placed the 9-ball one diamond up from the right corner pocket at the foot of the table and one half diamond to the left. Give or take. So it was an 8+ foot shot. He jacked up his cue to about 70+ degrees. He shot the 9-ball cleanly onto the corner pocket and drew the cue ball back to the rail he was standing at and the cue came off the head rail and came to rest 3 diamonds up. 11+ feet of draw or thereabouts.
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Somebody here said he did that for the cash one handed. No joke. That's Cole though who I may or may not have met. (noob perusing the pool scene)

Realistically, I doubt anyone has or could invent pool and certainly not without um exemplary examples.

All I can say about your game changing method is make the video. I have little doubt I and many here would be critical. I will allow that eye training is big. People who can draw accurately come to mind. So it's doable for some.
 
Texas Carom Club said:
I’m currently doing lessons with Roberto gomez
It’s improved my game so much with starting from the bottom and working all the way up
I won’t surpass him but I can be more consistent and competitive and feel after each lesson I make great jumps in skills
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Big name.
Good to hear your game is improving.
Don't feel you have to tell us exactly but has he revealed to you any confidential pool secrets that only the anointed have access to?
 
jjohnson said:
What do you mean: "diffusing the issue"?
I ask the readers to look up the definition of the word "menial."
So, your answer to the question of: how do you shoot straight is only for a what?
A low class servile servant?
You absolve yourself of such trivialities?
To answer the question is beneath you?
Your pictures and accompanying text will get the job done?
How so?

I think I am done with you.
Hope my short term memory problems won't keep me from remembering to ignore your non-advices.
I am not even going to take the time to edit this post even if it needs it.
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My take on people who puss out and ignore the truth just prove themselves wrong.

Straight stroking is the body of shooting pool. No virtuosic tour de force there. Just the one piston thing. Not easy but menial as a skill set.

Diffusing? Citing hypothetical issues. Often laid on profusely in arguments. No need if you have a sound bullet proof product.
 
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straightline said:
Somebody here said he did that for the cash one handed. No joke.
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Cecil Tugwell told me, "I could do that." No, I never saw Cecil even try it. Of course he was well past his prime then. Talk is cheap. See is believing. Cole did it for me and about 3 other people who were there without even being asked. And he did it for free. He was in stroke. Ya think? He was19 years old then. I'd sure like to see someone do that again.
 
Having knowledge and being able to successfully pass it along to another are two entirely different propositions.
The very best golf instructors are not retired former pro golfers. All of the pro instructors are very knowledgeable
and pros go to them for help because they can see the flaws, what needs to be fixed or improved and most of all,
can communicate this in a teaching style that their students, pro or amateur, can easily comprehend and practice.

A great player may not be a good teacher & a teacher doesn’t have to be a great player. They must be knowledgeable
and able to communicate the things that a player needs to do to become a stronger player and how to accomplish it.
Being a strong player does not mean you can teach others to do what you can do or how you assess a table’s layout.
 
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Back in the early 90s I took lessons from a few very high level players- One a former World champion, one a U.S. Open second place, and one a former 300+ ball runner. Back then no one, including all available instruction books, actually dissected a pool stroke the way guys like Mark Wilson introduced about 20 yers later.
To me, the actual PSR, set up, and stroke itself, is the essence of great pool, unless, as Mark stated , someone has the desire and ability to waste their life away from age 16 spending 10 hours or more a day in a pool room so that sheer volume of pool time overcomes obvious stroke flaws. I chose a more conventional route in life ( work, career, family, home, financial security) - and the "pool lessons" from all the great pros NEVER addressed my stroke flaws or ideas like PSR and proper set- up. I am re- learning everything now as I am retired and now have the time and proper training resources are available.
So , today. one can "learn" the game properly from day one via the internet or a book like "Play Great Pool" by Mark Wilson and combine all that with a constant video review of yourself. Proper in- person pool instruction is also available today. Videos of pros are available.
This is no different form every other sport. All sports today are way, way more advanced in available proper instruction than what was available 25, 35 years ago, including the former pros in all sports who offered limited effective instructions 25 to 35 years ago - that is just a fact of life.
 
I took lessons weekly for many months with strong players and i learned alot. I spent most of the time learning to hit the ball, not just putting the ball in the hole but the actual mechaincs of the stroke and the delivery of the hit of the ball. In later months we spent time on things like control and table mangement.

At the time i beat Ed once in a race. It was a proud moment for me, but at the time i couldn't consisently beat him. Maybe today i could we both are about 20 years older.
 
Playing at a high level requires the person to be completely self-involved, where as with teaching, it has to be all about the person you are helping. It's rare but possible that a high level player can step outside of himself effectively enough to focus on another's game and zero in on that person's particular needs, especially if the teacher is still actively competing, because every minute they are helping another player, they are expending important time and energy that could be going into their own game --- and they feel it.

But even for those high level players who are no longer competing full-time --- many of them are unable to make the transition from focusing inward to outward.

I was lucky to be around top players in my formative years and most of them helped me in terms of tips or spotting something in my game here and there. But I think most of a player's development is on their own.
 
I'd wager top players that aren't chasing the dream are mostly one trick ponies, or at best very strong in one aspect but merely competent in others.

If I was to be so bold for a moment. My fundamentals are very strong. To the point wherein I can work in an experiment with stroke delivery to gauge results and instantly go back to the basics without hurting my game. That said, my pattern play and moves games are at best so so. Decent enough to torture <650s but not strong enough to keep up to >700 in those aspects.

If someone wanted to improve their stroke/fundamentals, then I'd be the guy in the room to speak to. If you want to tweak some other aspect. Then there's likely better options...

I would hope a true to form instructor has the ability to cover all the bases.
 
jjohnson said:
Cecil Tugwell told me, "I could do that." No, I never saw Cecil even try it. Of course he was well past his prime then. Talk is cheap. See is believing. Cole did it for me and about 3 other people who were there without even being asked. And he did it for free. He was in stroke. Ya think? He was19 years old then. I'd sure like to see someone do that again.
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Incidentally, Cole did that one handed. Reliable poster, forget who.
 
Well, i gotta say that imo this guys threads/posts are too long, rambling, poorly punctuated and WAAAAAAY to full of this 'DEEP SEEING' shit. Enough for me. Tossin him on the Ignore pile. I gave him a chance but the honeymoon's over. SEE?????
 
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