TAR 28: Who Wins? Corey or John???

[Celtic]

I think he's gonna surprise all the people saying "if Corey shows up it's a done deal"

When we say that we are not saying "if Corey enters the TAR arena for the match", we are saying "if Corey has a flashback to his golden years and plays to the peak of his potential". Corey's absolute top game is top 5 on this planet world class level. Unfortunately it is seen about once every 5 years in very small glimpses because he hardly ever plays.

 

[LucasBilliards]

When we say that we are not saying "if Corey enters the TAR arena for the match", we are saying "if Corey has a flashback to his golden years and plays to the peak of his potential". Corey's absolute top game is top 5 on this planet world class level. Unfortunately it is seen about once every 5 years in very small glimpses because he hardly ever plays.

I know what you guys meant. I'm saying that John is an amazing player himself and even if Corey does bring his A game it's not a done deal that Corey wins. He's no pushover is what my point was. The man has one of the highest 14.1 runs ever. I just don't see Corey walking all over John like some have implied whether he shows up in stroke or not. Like I said I think John wins the weekend and possibly sweeps. This is just my opinion of course. The good thing is we'll get to see what really happens. Remember the undefeated Patriots team losing the Super bowl to the Giants? Everyone said it was over before it started and look what happened. I just don't think it's that easy.

 

[KoolKat9Lives]

Yo Odd Squad

So far the poll is at 40-16 in favor of Corey.

So... What's a fair betting line???? Someone posted in the Action room an offer getting 3/2 taking John, but as of a couple hours ago, there were no takers. I think I'd have to take John with those odds.

 

[westcoast]

Not unless he is making his money somewhere other then pool. He is usually about 100,000 short in winnings from the 1st place guy and likely misses out on alot of sponsership that would get him to those events and pay for his food and lodging if he were the actual player he could have become.

Does Corey have an income outside of pool?

 

[one stroke]

So far the poll is at 40-16 in favor of Corey.

So... What's a fair betting line???? Someone posted in the Action room an offer getting 3/2 taking John, but as of a couple hours ago, there were no takers. I think I'd have to take John with those odds.

And the 16 are praying corey brings his B game,, this is not even close if he brings his A game



1

 

[azbfan]

hum

these two play super close,all this talk of if corey brings his a game John has no chance.lol
Trust me Johns a game is awesome too and i asked him how he stands with corey lifetime.
John said its been 50-50 at other games but 14.1 Johns ahead.
John also said to people giving odds he is interested in pm to discuss

 

[Snapshot9]

Imo

I think John wins this. He will be better prepared than Corey, and don't kid yourself, John knows other games as well as 14.1. Corey is not going to have a flashback to the past, he will play just as he has been playing for the last 5 years, and what has he won in the last 5 years?

 

[Patrick]

I think John wins this. He will be better prepared than Corey, and don't kid yourself, John knows other games as well as 14.1. Corey is not going to have a flashback to the past, he will play just as he has been playing for the last 5 years, and what has he won in the last 5 years?

Last five years of history doesn't support your position when compared to John:

http://www.azbilliards.com/thepros/2000showplayer2012.php?playernum=45

http://www.azbilliards.com/thepros/2000showplayer2012.php?playernum=836

Patrick

 

[elvicash]

It depends on Corey and how much effort he puts into practicing for it and how in stroke he is. No offense to John but if Corey actually showed up 100% focused and ready to play with a massive amount of practice put into it he has too much for John. It also depends how goofy Corey gets on the break, he has often times got stubborn trying to mess around with soft breaks when they are not working and breaks himself right out of a tournament.

John I expect very likely might come into this match alot more practiced and focused though, Corey seems 3/4 retired and even when he does show up for an event he plays like a part time player with loads of natural talent but not alot of practice or steady competition. John when he does play these things seems to always put the effort in to show up with his A game, he has matches like the one vs Gentile leading up to this TAR and that type of stuff can get John alot more focused and ready then Corey. If a top notch John shows up and Corey is not ready for this thing he could be in deep trouble. I think John will be a very strong 8-ball player on this table and if he is up 1-0 going into the 1-pocket he is a strong threat to win the weekend on Saturday night.

At one time in the history of this sport Corey Deuel was IMO supposed to become the most dominant American pool player, at a level that rivals Archer and Strickland at their best. He was supposed to be the guy who Ralf, Hohmnann, Yang, and all those other guys really did not want to play. But Corey did not put the effort in to the game to become that. If Corey had put the same focus into pool that SVB did he would be the #1 player in the world atm IMO, even Dennis would be ducking him.

Hi Celtic, I see you like Corey. I will think John is the favorite myself so I offer you the following I will bet you a hundred that John wins all 3 if you offer me the same you take Corey to win all 3. If both guys win at least one night then the bet is a push. PM me to let me know if you are interested. Just offering a friendly sweat.

 

[Pre-Flag Master]

It depends on Corey and how much effort he puts into practicing for it...........

The Seminole Tribe got out of the pool business and Corey lost that juicy "sponsorship".

When did that sponsorship go away?

Did the sponsorship dilute Corey's competitive desire because he basically had a free ride?

Does having lost the sponsorship mean that Corey is now working harder at the game to become more competitive again?

BTW, the Jim Wych quote in my sig below is about a Corey shot.

 

[Celtic]

Hi Celtic, I see you like Corey. I will think John is the favorite myself so I offer you the following I will bet you a hundred that John wins all 3 if you offer me the same you take Corey to win all 3. If both guys win at least one night then the bet is a push. PM me to let me know if you are interested. Just offering a friendly sweat.

I am not totally sure I said I like Corey in this. Let me quote myself.

John I expect very likely might come into this match alot more practiced and focused though, Corey seems 3/4 retired and even when he does show up for an event he plays like a part time player with loads of natural talent but not alot of practice or steady competition. John when he does play these things seems to always put the effort in to show up with his A game, he has matches like the one vs Gentile leading up to this TAR and that type of stuff can get John alot more focused and ready then Corey. If a top notch John shows up and Corey is not ready for this thing he could be in deep trouble. I think John will be a very strong 8-ball player on this table and if he is up 1-0 going into the 1-pocket he is a strong threat to win the weekend on Saturday night.

That said I will sweat a cheaper $25 on this just for something to do. I get Corey, who needs to sweep, you get John who needs to sweep, should be an entertaining bet that will probably end up a push.

 

[elvicash]

I am not totally sure I said I like Corey in this. Let me quote myself.



That said I will sweat a cheaper $25 on this just for something to do. I get Corey, who needs to sweep, you get John who needs to sweep, should be an entertaining bet that will probably end up a push.

Your on buddy, one of us will be in the drivers seat after day one and the other will have to sweat it out.

Thanks for action, elvi

 

[wincardona]

That freaking sucks. It is also a huge benefit to Corey.

I just lost a great deal of my interest in the 8-ball, take what you make adds a ton of luck into the game, it actually discourages the power break and will play into Corey's more control orientated breaking style.

First time we ever see 8-ball on the tight TAR table and they screw with the rules to that extent instead of simply playing BCAPL... WTF... Finally the potential of 8-ball could have been shown as a proper pro game on a tight 9-foot and they go and screw with the rules... I was so bloody excited about that one particular night.

I would have to disagree that take what you make adds luck into the game, on the contrary it actually, imo, lends to a more strategic and difficult game to play. When the pro's play 8 ball with an open table after the break it seems to be a breaking contest. There will be many less racks run from the break, with a much lower % of run outs by the breaker. But the non breaker will have a much higher % of run outs, as opposed to the breaker's %. So with that understanding the breaker has a much less advantage playing under the rules of "take what you make" then he would with an open table after the break. Imo it's a much more difficult and interesting game to play and to watch.

Billy I.

 

[Goldcues]

Corey - 2 out of 3

I would have to disagree that take what you make adds luck into the game, on the contrary it actually, imo, lends to a more strategic and difficult game to play. When the pro's play 8 ball with an open table after the break it seems to be a breaking contest. There will be many less racks run from the break, with a much lower % of run outs by the breaker. But the non breaker will have a much higher % of run outs, as opposed to the breaker's %. So with that understanding the breaker has a much less advantage playing under the rules of "take what you make" then he would with an open table after the break. Imo it's a much more difficult and interesting game to play and to watch.

Billy I.

Agree completely. Btw, I like Corey taking 2 out of 3. Can't wait to watch it.

 

[one stroke]

I think John wins this. He will be better prepared than Corey, and don't kid yourself, John knows other games as well as 14.1. Corey is not going to have a flashback to the past, he will play just as he has been playing for the last 5 years, and what has he won in the last 5 years?

Not much but alot more than John

Profiles
John Schmidt

Sponsor: OBCues, 6pocket


AzB Player Rank: 46
Change from last week:6


2010 Winnings: 11,840

2010 Tournament Results:


Payout Place Event
$625 13th place Derby City Classic One Pocket Division
$800 12th place Derby City Classic 9-Ball Division
$780 2nd place Derby City Classic One Pocket Challenge
$1,100 3rd place Derby City Classic Straight Pool Challenge Main Event
$760 1st SE Open 9-Ball Tour Stop
$475 2nd SE Open 9-Ball Tour Stop
$1,300 3rd Seminole Pro Tour Stop
$2,500 9th World Pool Masters
$3,000 2nd Breakers 9-Ball Tournament
$500 65th 35th Annual US Open 9-Ball Championship

2009 Winnings: $57,150
View 2009 Tournament Results

2008 Winnings: $23,705
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2007 Winnings: $34,330
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2006 Winnings: $77,499
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2005 Winnings: $20,375
View 2005 Tournament Results

2004 Winnings: $22,993
View 2004 Tournament Results

2003 Winnings: $33,252
View 2003 Tournament Results

2002 Winnings: $2,600
View 2002 Tournament Results

2001 Winnings: $1,200
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2000 Winnings: $1,600
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Profiles
Corey Deuel

West Jefferson, OH


View 1 previous titles

AzB Player Rank: 17
Change from last week:15


2010 Winnings: 57,269

2010 Tournament Results:


Payout Place Event
$1,800 4th place Derby City Classic One Pocket Division
$260 4th place Derby City Classic One Pocket Challenge
$700 5th place Derby City Classic Straight Pool Challenge Main Event
$1,875 9th World Team Championship
$4,000 3rd Players Championship
$400 9th Seminole Pro Tour Stop
$3,000 2nd Seminole Pro Tour Stop
$325 13th Seminole Pro Tour Stop
$1,100 5th Gem City Classic
$2,800 1st Seminole Pro Tour Stop
$3,000 2nd Empire State Championship
$1,309 9th Predator International 10-Ball Event
$1,200 3rd Seminole Pro Tour Stop
$15,000 2nd 35th Annual US Open 9-Ball Championship
$1,000 17th 2010 China Open Men's Division
$4,000 5th Steve Mizerak Championship
$8,000 1st Turning Stone Classic XVI
$7,500 2nd Mosconi Cup

2009 Winnings: $56,395
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2008 Winnings: $51,300
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2007 Winnings: $65,125
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2006 Winnings: $101,250
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2005 Winnings: $87,482
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2004 Winnings: $75,968
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2003 Winnings: $13,300
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2002 Winnings: $71,410
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2001 Winnings: $102,163
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2000 Winnings: $44,035
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1

 

[Hungarian]

:thumbup::groucho:

I would have to disagree that take what you make adds luck into the game, on the contrary it actually, imo, lends to a more strategic and difficult game to play. When the pro's play 8 ball with an open table after the break it seems to be a breaking contest. There will be many less racks run from the break, with a much lower % of run outs by the breaker. But the non breaker will have a much higher % of run outs, as opposed to the breaker's %. So with that understanding the breaker has a much less advantage playing under the rules of "take what you make" then he would with an open table after the break. Imo it's a much more difficult and interesting game to play and to watch.

Billy I.

 

[Celtic]

I would have to disagree that take what you make adds luck into the game, on the contrary it actually, imo, lends to a more strategic and difficult game to play.

Billy I.

I think that what would take place if this was a regular game is that you would see alot of chippy safety style breaks. 8-ball tends to give a player 1 or 2 good shots after the break and professional players do not like to rely on the luck of the break to give them a shot on the group they happened to make.

Alot of times in 8-ball you will make a stripe, but the solids will set up very nicely with a shot off that break while the stripes are messed up on the rails of pockets that have been blocked by the solids that came to sit near the pockets. Now the breaker is at a HUGE disadvantage because they HAVE to shoot at a stripe, which they do not even have a legitimate shot at, and the solids are sitting like a bowl of cherries for their opponent who is now licking their lips and chalking their cue. That is alot of luck for the opponent and alot of bad luck for the breaker, and it does not exist in open after the break.

Pros will avoid the above, especially a guy like Corey. He will start to try to make a specific ball in the rack while playing shape on the top ball in the rack with a soft break that is meant to leave clusters so that if he does not make a ball his opponent has a crappy table to deal with and Corey has a good chance to get back to the table. If you make a ball on a table like that the best move is to actually start moving balls and setting your table up while screwing up your opponents table. It becomes more like a 1-pocket style of play because you just killed the power break and the luck associated with it. The last thing I want to see is the end of the power break in 8-ball and a move to a soft breakl style of chippy game.

Your an awesome player Billy, but you are a 1-pocket player and it is not hugely surprising that you are into the more tricky style of game that would play alot slower. If we were going to try to make things trickier though why not just do last pocket 8-ball, THAT makes the whole game worlds more difficult and brings in huge amounts of strategy.

 

[Hungarian]

Man, don't be coming back at Billy with a post four times as long just because you want to be understood.

That's Billy FU&KING Cardone..

I think that what would take place if this was a regular game is that you would see alot of chippy safety style breaks. 8-ball tends to give a player 1 or 2 good shots after the break and professional players do not like to rely on the luck of the break to give them a shot on the group they happened to make.

Alot of times in 8-ball you will make a stripe, but the solids will set up very nicely with a shot off that break while the stripes are messed up on the rails of pockets that have been blocked by the solids that came to sit near the pockets. Now the breaker is at a HUGE disadvantage because they HAVE to shoot at a stripe, which they do not even have a legitimate shot at, and the solids are sitting like a bowl of cherries for their opponent who is now licking their lips and chalking their cue. That is alot of luck for the opponent and alot of bad luck for the breaker, and it does not exist in open after the break.

Pros will avoid the above, especially a guy like Corey. He will start to try to make a specific ball in the rack while playing shape on the top ball in the rack with a soft break that is meant to leave clusters so that if he does not make a ball his opponent has a crappy table to deal with and Corey has a good chance to get back to the table. If you make a ball on a table like that the best move is to actually start moving balls and setting your table up while screwing up your opponents table. It becomes more like a 1-pocket style of play because you just killed the power break and the luck associated with it. The last thing I want to see is the end of the power break in 8-ball and a move to a soft breakl style of chippy game.

Your an awesome player Billy, but you are a 1-pocket player and it is not hugely surprising that you are into the more tricky style of game that would play alot slower. If we were going to try to make things trickier though why not just do last pocket 8-ball, THAT makes the whole game worlds more difficult and brings in huge amounts of strategy.

 

[Celtic]

That's Billy FU&KING Cardone..

I know who he is. That is why I said, I know the style of game he likes. But I do think that the game of 8-ball would change radically over time with take what you make at the pro level. The pro's took freaking rotation pool and deconstructed the break down to a science of soft breaking, they would do the same to take what you make 8-ball and turn it into a slow moving game because they do not like random chance to dictate results on the break as it would do hard breaking in take what you make 8-ball.

 

[Wazuela]

There's no way John can beat Corey, even on his best day!