ChrisBanks
Banned
Archer was genuine and serious when saying this. And I know he is a very honest man, and it is unlikely he is withholding any type of secretive aiming system.
What do you think?
What do you think?
TAR Podcast Johnny Archer: "It's feel what we're doing"
- Thread starter ChrisBanks
- Start date
I think it's clear that you're not a system-centric person and you seem to make a lot of posts to poke at those who use them. I also think feel doesn't work for everyone just like systems don't work for everyone.
To quote Johnny with a "See, he's telling us the truth" kind of post is as much as someone pointing to Darren with See or Stevie with Pro1 and saying, "See, he's telling us the truth." And, they're both honest and genuine as well.
One thing is for sure, between systems and feel -- everyone is covered.
Just accept they're not for you but clearly work for others and try to avoid the debates. It's a much better place here without the constant bickering.
ChrisBanks
Banned
Oh no, I would never poke at anyone. If we don't discuss this, the forum might as well be closed. What else is there to talk about here?
How do you adjust for english? It does not seem as if you are doing it the way that Mr. Shuffet describes.
Stevie,
I've heard this from other pros, also. It sets up a similar baseline like CTE/Pro One does. Consistency has to happen when you do the same thing over and over...or is that the definiton for insanity?
Best,
Mike
When you are experienced, you can adjust for english any way you want to using cte/pro1. When cte/pro1 is executed correctly, you will be on the correct cueing line/contact point for a center pocket hit. I think that is a great starting point to work english into the shot.
We can control the distance (to a point) we are from the cue ball
That's true "between systems and feel everyone is covered," - well said.
The common denominator is ALL these players base their "feel" off some kind of Object Ball/Cue Ball CONNECTION. I like to use the center and edge because I CAN SEE THEM {Specifically} no matter how far the Object Ball is from me. This gives me the "feeling" of "system precision".
We can control the distance (to a point) we are from the cue ball, however, the object ball is usually varying distances. I say that because, to me, it makes it vital to use a reference point of the object ball that's easiest to see. If there's to be any real specific points OFF center OR edge, it's best to use the cue ball.
I talked to Johnny Archer and Shane V. in London about their aiming and liked what I heard. It's simply not like "aiming" with a rifle because we have to CREATE our "sights", and this is also an excellent part of the Game. Without correct body alignment it won't matter what kind of "feel" you get from a system - your "sights" will be off. 'The Game is the Teacher'
That's true "between systems and feel everyone is covered," - well said.
The common denominator is ALL these players base their "feel" off some kind of Object Ball/Cue Ball CONNECTION. I like to use the center and edge because I CAN SEE THEM {Specifically} no matter how far the Object Ball is from me. This gives me the "feeling" of "system precision".
We can control the distance (to a point) we are from the cue ball, however, the object ball is usually varying distances. I say that because, to me, it makes it vital to use a reference point of the object ball that's easiest to see. If there's to be any real specific points OFF center OR edge, it's best to use the cue ball.
I talked to Johnny Archer and Shane V. in London about their aiming and liked what I heard. It's simply not like "aiming" with a rifle because we have to CREATE our "sights", and this is also an excellent part of the Game. Without correct body alignment it won't matter what kind of "feel" you get from a system - your "sights" will be off. 'The Game is the Teacher'
I really am looking forward to this answer.
Do you make adjustments to your visuals?
Do you use the same visuals and drop into the shot differently?
Do you do something entirely different?
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C.J.,
I am very interested in how you make adjustments to your aiming system when using English also.
I am very interested in how you make adjustments to your aiming system when using English also.
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There is so much discussion about systems and feel it really gets crazy, at the end of the day we all have to use systems and we all have to use feel, it's inevitable, there's no perfect "system" otherwise the game would have been already been figured out, and obviously our feel is wrong many times that's why we miss shots. Even the players that say they only "feel" it they are really using a system, I'm one of those guys, I don't really use any particular system for most shots with a few exceptions, but if I think about I am doing the same thing on every shot, looking at the cue ball in a way and then looking at the object ball in a different way, weather is you that you are thinking it objectively on every shot or you are letting your subcontious do the calculation it creates consistency that's why you are able to make certain shots consistently, therefore it's a system, it might not be pro1 or CTE it might just be "oshua86" system of aiming.
As far as the English, there is really not perfect system to calculate everything, too many variables, you have speed which affects squirt, swerve, cut induced throw, English induced throw. Not to mention the table conditions, lighting and ball condition. Now, we can know for a fact the physics and result of English, (if we use outside English then the object ball is thrown to the inside etc). Now, if we tried to calculate all this on every shot it would drive us crazy that's where "feel" which in reality is experience (it's like walking around your house in complete darkness but you know where everything is, you "feel" the things in your house but really what is happening is your brain recalling past experiences and overlapping it with the present and making slight adjustments based on the current circumstances) comes in. But still even if we do that the game would stil be too hard (that's whys the pocket is considerably larger than the balls) and that's where what CJ talks about "making the pocket" bigger than it is works so well, if you divide the pocket in 3 parts like he says, if you are using center English you can aim at the center of the pocket, if your aim calculations (whether by using a system or "feel") then you split the pocket but if you slightly wrong and ball goes a bit to left or right you can still make the ball. Now if you are using outside English and you know the object ball is goin to be thrown to the inside then you aim should be at the outside part of the pocket so once the ball gets throw to the inside your margin of error increases dramatically.
As far as the English, there is really not perfect system to calculate everything, too many variables, you have speed which affects squirt, swerve, cut induced throw, English induced throw. Not to mention the table conditions, lighting and ball condition. Now, we can know for a fact the physics and result of English, (if we use outside English then the object ball is thrown to the inside etc). Now, if we tried to calculate all this on every shot it would drive us crazy that's where "feel" which in reality is experience (it's like walking around your house in complete darkness but you know where everything is, you "feel" the things in your house but really what is happening is your brain recalling past experiences and overlapping it with the present and making slight adjustments based on the current circumstances) comes in. But still even if we do that the game would stil be too hard (that's whys the pocket is considerably larger than the balls) and that's where what CJ talks about "making the pocket" bigger than it is works so well, if you divide the pocket in 3 parts like he says, if you are using center English you can aim at the center of the pocket, if your aim calculations (whether by using a system or "feel") then you split the pocket but if you slightly wrong and ball goes a bit to left or right you can still make the ball. Now if you are using outside English and you know the object ball is goin to be thrown to the inside then you aim should be at the outside part of the pocket so once the ball gets throw to the inside your margin of error increases dramatically.
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At the risk of oversimplifying, say some given player uses contact point in general or a ghost ball method in general. After a while, they only need to look carefully/pick out specific points/edges/etc. on unusual shots. Then like me or like many of you reading, they can say "feel" and they're being truthful.
On english, it need not be much different. It could be as simple as "I'm using a lot of left and so will adjust by x much" and so on... again, for most shots struck many thousands of times before.
On english, it need not be much different. It could be as simple as "I'm using a lot of left and so will adjust by x much" and so on... again, for most shots struck many thousands of times before.
I align every shot with real CTE. I use CCB majority of my shots. Probably like 80 to 90%. I create what I hope to be the correct angle for the next shot. Since real CTE connects you with center pocket aiming you have an allowance if you don't strike the CB in the center. By using a low deflection shaft It does make it easier when I apply spin. Spin is a very tough animal. As you use the system more and more your stroke gets straighter and I've learned to land with spin after rotating into the shot. It's really amazing how little spin you'll need if your stroke is straight.
Hey Stevie, I am not going to ask you about using English and cte/pro1 because I think we both know how easy it is to apply it once you are experienced with the system. I am curious though if you see all shots on the table as cte/pro1 alignments as I do.
Example: If there is an almost straight in shot, I will just see it as an “outside” A or C. If there is a cut that falls into the “inside” A or C alignment, I will see the shot as just an inside A or C? I can continue into the other alignments but I am sure you must know what I mean? For all the millions of possible almost straight in shots I see them as a simple outside A or C shot. I am having trouble trying to explain this lol
Couldn't have said it better so I will quote you to make sure it's said twice.
Also, I had a conversation with Johnny last year when he was in China about aiming. Let's just say that Johnny has an approach that is clearly not just feel.
I personally think that the TAR podcasts do NOT really allow the players to explain what they do enough. Almost every podcast the question gets asked and things quickly go off the rails into other areas. The one with Busty and Archer you had Mark jumping in and Johnny jumping in all over Francisco. Francisco said that he couldn't explain how he aims but that he simply copied what he saw other good players doing. Next time I seem him if the opportunity presents itself I will ask him to try and explain it to me.
I'm pretty sure Johnny talks about about how he uses the edge of the CB to CCB in the podcast of he and Shane. Either around minute 34 or 44. He explains it to some degree.
I do as well, i guess you did not understand what i was asking. That is ok, i was just curious is all.