Texas express rule help!

[dereklovejoy]

I play in a texas express rules 9 ball tourney saturdays. Last saturday i was playing in a match when the guys from the table over from me called on me to watch a hit. The guy was shooting a kiss shot trying to slice the one thin and make the 9 ball. He shot it and i was watching it and it was very close, i just couldnt tell one way or another so i called a split hit. What i thought was that on a split hit it went to the shooter and that the 9 would count but as soon as i called the split hit the opponent of the guy who made the shot who just so happens to be the owner of the pool hall we were in said that the 9 didnt count and i started arguing with him about wether a split hit goes to the shooter or not. a couple other b to b+ shooters also said that it was imposible to call a split hit cause you couldnt really tell which just sounds stupid to me what would you call if its too close that you cant tell. so my questions about this are.

1. was it the right call even to call a split hit or should i have just said it was a clean hit and they could have gone on with the match

2. In the case of a split hit it does go to the shooter right?

 

[Ronoh]

Please give a Wei Table layout, so that we may give a solid response to the shot in question.

 

[scottycoyote]

i always thought a split hit goes to the shooter too, thats how we play here but im just talking regular play, not tourney

 

[rhncue]

i always thought a split hit goes to the shooter too, thats how we play here but im just talking regular play, not tourney

To start with, there is no such thing as a split hit. It's either good or bad. It's almost physically impossible to hit two balls at the same time. That being said, if you called it a split hit then in that case the 9 ball does not count. The rules expressly say that the lower ball MUST be hit FIRST, not at the same time as another to be good.

Dick

 

[GADawg]

I play in a texas express rules 9 ball tourney saturdays. Last saturday i was playing in a match when the guys from the table over from me called on me to watch a hit. The guy was shooting a kiss shot trying to slice the one thin and make the 9 ball. He shot it and i was watching it and it was very close, i just couldnt tell one way or another so i called a split hit. What i thought was that on a split hit it went to the shooter and that the 9 would count but as soon as i called the split hit the opponent of the guy who made the shot who just so happens to be the owner of the pool hall we were in said that the 9 didnt count and i started arguing with him about wether a split hit goes to the shooter or not. a couple other b to b+ shooters also said that it was imposible to call a split hit cause you couldnt really tell which just sounds stupid to me what would you call if its too close that you cant tell. so my questions about this are.

1. was it the right call even to call a split hit or should i have just said it was a clean hit and they could have gone on with the match

2. In the case of a split hit it does go to the shooter right?

I don't know about Texas Express, but in most places, you must hit the OB FIRST as mentioned above and a split hit has not met that requirement.

As the observer or referee, I believe had you said "I couldn't tell" or something like that, then the call would go to the shooter, but when you called it a split hit, then it was a foul.

 

[cuetechasaurus]

A. You made the mistake of calling a split hit instead of calling it a good or bad hit. You only have those two choices.

B. There is like a 1 in 1000 chance of the cueball hitting both balls at the same time. When it's too close to tell, you must call a good hit, unless the impeding ball takes a path or speed that would dictate that obviously he hit the wrong ball first.

C. You are not clear on the rules so you should have told them that in the first place, and had someone else watch the hit, or you should have just told them to either take your call or go to hell.

 

[quitecoolguy]

i have to agree with everyone...its either a good hit or bad hit..and as a fellow forum members said you must hit the object ball first...


ohh and hello everyone..i just joined the forum.. I have been reading this forum about a week, a friend of mine told me about this sight at the pool hall one night..so i checked it out..very good forum..Im from Richmond Va. and play at Murphey's Law, Murphey's Law II, and the Playing Field. Glad to meet everyone

 

[Zims Rack]

1) As mentioned, A split hit is very, very rare, and in the case it does occur, it's a FOUL! Rule states that the lowest number ball must be contacted first, not at the same time.

2) As a player, I would make sure I have someone watch the hit that is qualified to make a correct call. (not that you aren't, just stating my opinion as a player)

* When watching shots, you can't always go to the sounds you hear or don't hear. To me one of the best ways to make a good call in this situation is to look at the ball positions, see witch direction the balls should travel if it's a good hit and if it's a bad hit. Balls direction doesn't lie, but your ears will.

We use Texas Express on the Gateway Amateur 9-Ball Tour and I am called to watch at least 4-5 shots per tournament.

Zim

 

[Timberly]

i have to agree with everyone...its either a good hit or bad hit..and as a fellow forum members said you must hit the object ball first...


ohh and hello everyone..i just joined the forum.. I have been reading this forum about a week, a friend of mine told me about this sight at the pool hall one night..so i checked it out..very good forum..Im from Richmond Va. and play at Murphey's Law, Murphey's Law II, and the Playing Field. Glad to meet everyone

Welcome to the forum! Now that we've got you on here, maybe we can recruit you to come play in some of the Tiger Planet Pool tournaments. Quite a few folks from Richmond come out to play in them. Todd Elkins of Parrot Cues is a sponsor and also does cue repair at most of the events.

 

[Snapshot9]

The shot ...

is not good, and would be a ball in hand foul after the 9 is spotted.

Split hits go to the shooter in 8 ball (per BCA rules), not 9 ball.

 

[dereklovejoy]

i found a website texasexpress.com that has the official rules for texas express. and its states:

6.3: Bad Hit

If the first ball struck by the cue ball is not the lowest numbered object ball on the table, it will be considered a cue ball-in-hand foul (except for variations on the break; refer to 3.6). In the case of a split hit, the judgment favors the shooter.

so on one case its stating that the one had to be hit first which obviously is usually the rule. But in cases that its so close that there is no way to tell what ball it really hit first that you have to give it to the shooter.

take the case if you have two frozen balls together and you shoot right between them you are hitting them pretty much at the same time and there would be no way to tell the difference so you would have to give it to the shooter.

i knew that it was the rule but i guess as far as a referee would go he should just call it good or bad and not split that way eliminating the confusion. im still upset cause i called it a split hit and then gave the nine ball to the guy shooting which i thought was right and then the arguement started.

 

[scottycoyote]

ok i guess i mispoke when i say split hit.........i guess i mean when the object ball and another ball are close together and the shooter shoots it way too fast to tell which ball it hit first and one doesnt start rolling before the other.........then that goes to the shooter here lol.

 

[quitecoolguy]

Welcome to the forum! Now that we've got you on here, maybe we can recruit you to come play in some of the Tiger Planet Pool tournaments. Quite a few folks from Richmond come out to play in them. Todd Elkins of Parrot Cues is a sponsor and also does cue repair at most of the events.

Sure i am always looking to play in a tounrnament..and I know Todd's work as well, he makes some beautiful cues. I currently play in the APA and I am ranked a Five..although..eveyone has been bit&*# that im way over a five..but i say to them..hey the APA system will catch up to me sooner of later. And i dont lay down for anyone...I had a 9 year lay off from pool and im just getting back into it..9 years ago i would have played anyone anywhere..but time is a killer of your game..i have a guy who has always taken me under his wing and is really glad im back to playing and has been helping sharpen up my game and tell me where my flaws are..just for a shot out..Bernie Kirby is a great player and teacher..he has taught me a gret deal about the game. So i will check out where the Tiger tourn. are hosted..

I do have a question that came up last night during APA play. A guy just lost focus and shot the nine ball as if it was the cue ball. He just bent down lined up a shot in the corner using the nine ball as the cue.. After he hit the nine..he stood up and looks at everyone and says ..what was i thinking.. our team called a foul...but the other team stated that i was not a foul since the cue ball had not been struck. The apa has a very silly rule that i you move a ball during play it is not a foul and that you can just put it back where it was. They said that his shot fell under this rule...The division rep there at the Pool room agreed with the other team and said there was nothing in Apa rules that accounted for this error. I argued that it is stated that the "cue ball must strike the object ball first" not the nine ball or any other ball so under that clause it would be ruled a foul..but i was told no..anyone got any insight to this..

 

[ironman]

I play in a texas express rules 9 ball tourney saturdays. Last saturday i was playing in a match when the guys from the table over from me called on me to watch a hit. The guy was shooting a kiss shot trying to slice the one thin and make the 9 ball. He shot it and i was watching it and it was very close, i just couldnt tell one way or another so i called a split hit. What i thought was that on a split hit it went to the shooter and that the 9 would count but as soon as i called the split hit the opponent of the guy who made the shot who just so happens to be the owner of the pool hall we were in said that the 9 didnt count and i started arguing with him about wether a split hit goes to the shooter or not. a couple other b to b+ shooters also said that it was imposible to call a split hit cause you couldnt really tell which just sounds stupid to me what would you call if its too close that you cant tell. so my questions about this are.

1. was it the right call even to call a split hit or should i have just said it was a clean hit and they could have gone on with the match

2. In the case of a split hit it does go to the shooter right?

I can appreciate your situation. I run a regional tour and get called to referee quite often.
My advice, Make the call, good hit or bad hit and simply walk away. Call it and sell your decision by walking off and don't buy into the complaining as it will turn into an argument. It is a thankless chore.

 

[Bob Jewett]

...
1. was it the right call even to call a split hit or should i have just said it was a clean hit and they could have gone on with the match...

Some have said that it is impossible to have a simultaneous hit. Here is a proposition: put two balls frozen right between the side pockets. The pair is pointed up an down the table, head spot to foot spot. Hang a ball in the jaws of a side pocket. Shoot between the pair and draw the cue ball back to pocket the hanger. (No, you can't hit one of the balls full and draw back and claim you split the pair.) If you give me 15 minutes, I can get a hit that is simultaneous enough to do this.

Secondly, it is possible to have two object balls set up such that it is impossible to tell which was struck first either by the action of the cue ball or the speeds of the object balls. If you cannot tell as a referee which was struck first, you can't call a foul.

 

[Zims Rack]

Some have said that it is impossible to have a simultaneous hit. Here is a proposition: put two balls frozen right between the side pockets. The pair is pointed up an down the table, head spot to foot spot. Hang a ball in the jaws of a side pocket. Shoot between the pair and draw the cue ball back to pocket the hanger. (No, you can't hit one of the balls full and draw back and claim you split the pair.) If you give me 15 minutes, I can get a hit that is simultaneous enough to do this.

Secondly, it is possible to have two object balls set up such that it is impossible to tell which was struck first either by the action of the cue ball or the speeds of the object balls. If you cannot tell as a referee which was struck first, you can't call a foul.

I second this Bob! Two balls can be contacted simultaniously at the same time with a straight stroke and proper aiming (and of course practice)!

Zim

 

[quitecoolguy]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Timberly
Welcome to the forum! Now that we've got you on here, maybe we can recruit you to come play in some of the Tiger Planet Pool tournaments. Quite a few folks from Richmond come out to play in them. Todd Elkins of Parrot Cues is a sponsor and also does cue repair at most of the events.


Sure i am always looking to play in a tounrnament..and I know Todd's work as well, he makes some beautiful cues. I currently play in the APA and I am ranked a Five..although..eveyone has been bit&*# that im way over a five..but i say to them..hey the APA system will catch up to me sooner of later. And i dont lay down for anyone...I had a 9 year lay off from pool and im just getting back into it..9 years ago i would have played anyone anywhere..but time is a killer of your game..i have a guy who has always taken me under his wing and is really glad im back to playing and has been helping sharpen up my game and tell me where my flaws are..just for a shot out..Bernie Kirby is a great player and teacher..he has taught me a gret deal about the game. So i will check out where the Tiger tourn. are hosted..

I do have a question that came up last night during APA play. A guy just lost focus and shot the nine ball as if it was the cue ball. He just bent down lined up a shot in the corner using the nine ball as the cue.. After he hit the nine..he stood up and looks at everyone and says ..what was i thinking.. our team called a foul...but the other team stated that i was not a foul since the cue ball had not been struck. The apa has a very silly rule that i you move a ball during play it is not a foul and that you can just put it back where it was. They said that his shot fell under this rule...The division rep there at the Pool room agreed with the other team and said there was nothing in Apa rules that accounted for this error. I argued that it is stated that the "cue ball must strike the object ball first" not the nine ball or any other ball so under that clause it would be ruled a foul..but i was told no..anyone got any insight to this..