OK, I just don't see pattern racking the same as rack rigging. To me, rack rigging is leaving gaps and tilting the rack.
The 9-Ball Break- How much luck is involved?
- Thread starter vjmehra
- Start date
OK, I just don't see pattern racking the same as rack rigging. To me, rack rigging is leaving gaps and tilting the rack.
Firstly, I don't think Corey beats anyone (pros mind you) in a long race... Just saying.
Secondly, there is definitely both and I'll provide examples...
Skill - simply consistently making a ball with the cue ball somewhere back middle which allows best % of a decent next shot.
Luck or bad luck - another @&$)(;:/- ball comes outta nowhere and kisses the cue ball into a pocket.
It's hard to see how this would work unless you turn the rack 10 degrees or so. Can you explain further?
In most US tournaments pattern racking seems to be permitted. Was it permitted in that tournament?
I shouldn't tell you this, but apparently you need a bit of knowledge, so I'm happy to tell you this:
Racking Secrets - Joe Tucker
Joetucker.net
If you don't read about racks, you can't argue your side of the question.
He'd rack a few degrees crooked, just enough that with the right angle and a little transferred spin, the wing ball would go dead into the pocket. That's actually easier to get away with when using the magic rack, people assume you just laid the template down a little sloppy whereas with a triangle rack they can see you lining the corner of the rack up for the pocket. Corey's breaking antics are well known. If the rules give him any room to pull stunts, you know he's going to try, like 8-ball breaking by kicking off the back rail to pocket the wing ball up table then playing safe behind the barely broken rack so he can basically straight-pool the rest of the rack with ball in hand.
Here he is playing safe on the break in 10-ball, like a little nardmagnet.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fGiCm88hPI
Shane looks thoroughly unimpressed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fGiCm88hPI
Shane looks thoroughly unimpressed.
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Shane was suggesting that it was an illegal break because not enough balls (4) hit the rail. Corey thought the 5-ball hit a rail as well as the 1-, 3-, and 7-balls. Corey was proven wrong.
Yeah Shane in this case was right but another inch of roll and he would have had to play a 3-rail kick to start with. It's just not a sporting way to play at that level, at all.
The point is you should be hitting the rack like you intend to get out, WITHOUT pattern racking and soft breaking. If you're really that skilled, you'll hold the CB where you need it and have a good idea where the 1 is going and have your speed dialed in to where the balls get a good spread but you're not breaking so hard they come of the rails and start clumping back together. That's the skill component of 9 & 10 ball breaks, with a 9-ball break having the added component that you can usually get the wing ball down while doing the above once you know how the table's breaking. The luck factor is just trying to avoid the unlucky bounce that knocks the CB or one of the lowest balls into a bad position. If the 5-10 are sitting tough, you're expected to be able to be able break it out or come up with a lock-up safety when you're playing at this level. Corey doesn't want to play fair, he tries to tilt the table in his favor using sketchy breaking tactics.
The point is you should be hitting the rack like you intend to get out, WITHOUT pattern racking and soft breaking. If you're really that skilled, you'll hold the CB where you need it and have a good idea where the 1 is going and have your speed dialed in to where the balls get a good spread but you're not breaking so hard they come of the rails and start clumping back together. That's the skill component of 9 & 10 ball breaks, with a 9-ball break having the added component that you can usually get the wing ball down while doing the above once you know how the table's breaking. The luck factor is just trying to avoid the unlucky bounce that knocks the CB or one of the lowest balls into a bad position. If the 5-10 are sitting tough, you're expected to be able to be able break it out or come up with a lock-up safety when you're playing at this level. Corey doesn't want to play fair, he tries to tilt the table in his favor using sketchy breaking tactics.
Tilting the rack at nine-ball can be a big edge for the breaker....
...if your opponent allowed you to tilt an eight-ball rack enough to make the wing-ball...
....he's too dumb to beat anybody at anything.
That's what I was thinking -- I'd like to see a video.
Looks like an interesting read, will order myself a copy!
I always felt that the 9 ball rack was easy to rig and having certain balls going to certain spots, somewhat consistantly. I just never knew how much the 9 ball rack/break could be controlled until i watched Donny Mills at work.
On a non tapped in, non template, cloth, its possible to break the same wing ball in practically everytime AND have 7-8 balls all go to the same area of the table with no clusters. I didnt believe it either, until I watched TAR 17 SVB vs Donny Mills.
Donny ddidnt break in the wing ball in only ONE rack out of 83 breaks.
Eric
On a non tapped in, non template, cloth, its possible to break the same wing ball in practically everytime AND have 7-8 balls all go to the same area of the table with no clusters. I didnt believe it either, until I watched TAR 17 SVB vs Donny Mills.
Donny ddidnt break in the wing ball in only ONE rack out of 83 breaks.
Eric
Note that you don't have to twist it to line up the wing ball all the way, the wing ball comes off differently depending on the angle the CB goes into into the rack. So every degree you twist it that's a little bit more the wing ball points to the pocket, and another degree of angle you can hit the rack with from the rail. Doesn't take much twisting to get this to work once you control all the other variables. Sure it's not easy to do, but neither is it sporting.
Yes, that was a Monster Match.. CreeDo posted that Donny Mills made a ball on the break 73 times out of 74..... If he did make 82 of 83, that's even better.
Man, that guy is Soooo Lucky or is he? Making a ball or several balls might contain a percentage of good fortune, but several players today work on their break. They've learned to play position on the first shot in the game, just as you do in the second shot of the game. It ain't luck, it's a lot of skill. I'm gonna have to watch that match to see what the position percentage is. If you folks know, let us know. That info is important too.
Yeah the guy Corey is playing here I don't think has ever beat anybody in his life:
https://youtu.be/tqzMx4v09cU?t=502 (Note he has the rack twisted just a few degrees, breaks from the rail, and pops the wing ball in)
https://youtu.be/tqzMx4v09cU?t=3452 (Oh look he did it again)
https://youtu.be/jzFm_kyn1p0?t=328 (And again)
https://youtu.be/jzFm_kyn1p0?t=990 (Twists it the opposite direction and breaks from the other side like nobody will notice)
Here you can see the little douchecopter twisted it too much and missed the pocket. https://youtu.be/gshI2dtJmoY?t=482
It's actually not even all that effective at consistently putting the wing ball down, but does consistently leave a mess on the table which I think really pissed Shane off, if you clutter up the table to slow him down he becomes much more beatable. Corey on the other hand has practice with a messy break and uses the tied up balls to play safe to control the table. It's just not the pool I like to see played.
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I looked at some of those and I couldn't see any twist.
As for leaving a "mess on the table" after the break, if that's the best chance to give you a win, that's what you should do. I hope that's obvious to everyone.
Im pretty sure it was more than 70 something breaks. For that matter, Donny won 83 or so games?
Eric
I think the final score was 100-83, so Donny had to break more than 74 times. Jaden posted that he made a ball 82 of 83: http://forums.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=2107763&postcount=2
Go figure!
There are many 9 Ball break rules, but for many of us it is break from any where and as hard as you can! To many variables to know for sure, but I would say both luck and skill.
SVB and a few others definitely can be a beast with the break.
I have lost track of the many times world class players come up dry on the break, we have all seen it.
So I believe there is both skill and luck in the 9 Ball beak. But, some are more skillful then others.
Most of the time if I make a ball on the break it is luck!
If you are talking Corey and a 9 Ball break on a bar box then more skill then luck.
There are many 9 Ball break rules, but for many of us it is break from any where and as hard as you can! To many variables to know for sure, but I would say both luck and skill.
SVB and a few others definitely can be a beast with the break.
I have lost track of the many times world class players come up dry on the break, we have all seen it.
So I believe there is both skill and luck in the 9 Ball beak. But, some are more skillful then others.
Most of the time if I make a ball on the break it is luck!
If you are talking Corey and a 9 Ball break on a bar box then more skill then luck.